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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Unconditional parenting people WWYD?

29 replies

nappyaddict · 24/02/2013 10:49

DS has stopped at my sisters overnight and I am about to pick him up.

Yesterday afternoon we discovered one of mine and DPs Christmas presents. It was a canvas of a photograph taken at DPs brother's wedding that is usually hung on our wall. We have found it in the bin with food stains on. We tried wiping them off but no luck. I wouldn't have wanted DS to clean it himself in case he did more damage. He is 6.8 BTW.

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Hullygully · 24/02/2013 10:54

I'd ask him what had happened.

MrsSham · 24/02/2013 11:10

Just lost a massive post.

Ask him what happened, do not be cross and just make clear the importance of coming to you in order to resolve things like this straight away, is may be that the picture could have been wiped clean there and then with no damage. Just reinforce the importance of honesty and being trustworthy.

You may want to look into collaborative problem solving strategies, used a lot in education. It common sense basically but if you are looking for specific principles and recognised strategies, this is a good basis to start.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 24/02/2013 12:35

Would you really not get cross? It is a really naughty thing what he has done and I don't think a telling off and for him to see that I am cross and upset would be a bad thing?

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Goldmandra · 24/02/2013 13:46

If he did something a bit silly which resulted in the food stains, tried to clean it, panicked, put it in the bin an a desperate attempt to hide it from you and has been secretly worrying about it while he's been at your sister's he has probably been punished enough.

It depends on what you think has been going on in his head. My DDs would both be mortified at what they had done and upset about having upset us. Telling them off wouldn't have achieved anything.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 24/02/2013 16:27

The food stains were from him putting it in the bin.

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MrsSham · 24/02/2013 16:32

I wouldn't get cross now no, as the circumstances are that he hid it, I would rather work on him owning up and telling the truth and his assurance things like that wont be dealt with by hiding it, that won't happen if you are to get cross. I like to also think that if my dd knows she has done wrong and has delt with it badly getting cross will close lines of communication.

If you feel a sanction is in order or a punishment then do that in a measured way without getting cross. However I feel he maybe has punished himself more by now.

MrsSham · 24/02/2013 16:34

Ah x post i thought he had soiled it and tried to hid it, then why do you think its been put in the bin? It seems a random thing to do, with no reason. I would ask why it was put in the bin.

cloudhands · 24/02/2013 16:52

strange things go through kids minds sometimes. I wonder what made it end up in the bin?
I'd maybe ask what happened, and explain that you are upset about it, but not in a shouty kind of way.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 24/02/2013 18:26

We don't shout when we tell him off but we do try to change our tone of voice to show we are cross and use a calm, gentle voice when explaining why he shouldn't do it.

We have just got home and I asked him where the picture was. He said it was in the kitchen. I asked why he put it in the bin and he said because he didn't want to see it. When asked why he said he didn't know.

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Hullygully · 24/02/2013 18:29

I wouldn't get cross because it's pointless. I'd try and find out over time what it was about and negotiate that next time he felt he didn't want to look at something for some reason, that we talk about it and maybe it could be put in a different place because I might still like to look at it.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 24/02/2013 19:44

But I am cross, surely that is a natural feeling? Why shouldn't DS know that his actions caused me to be both cross and upset.

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Original poster

nappyaddict · 24/02/2013 19:54

If something had happened to it by accident and he had tried to cover it up I would be more understanding and not upset or cross but slightly annoyed that the picture was ruined.

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amistillsexy · 24/02/2013 20:00

He didn't ruin the picture then put it in the bin, he put the picture in the bin and then it got ruined.

You are concentrating on the wrong thing. The photo can be replaced. You need to find out why your ds wanted to throw your photo away. I would think he was angry at you both for some reason. That's what you need to get to the bottom of. He'll never let you know what he's cross with you about if you get cross with him.

Goldmandra · 24/02/2013 20:04

Do you think there is more to him not liking the picture? It seems like quite an extreme action to take just because you don't like a photo.

I think I would have to make sure I understood the reasons behind the behaviour before I decided how to respond.

I think it's fine to tell him that you are angry and upset. He needs to understand your feelings. Is that what you mean by telling him off?

Hullygully · 24/02/2013 20:21

I would be cross if a sentient and rational adult with the ability and power to express themself did it, but if my 6 yr old did it, I'd think Wow, what was that about??

Hullygully · 24/02/2013 20:22

I'm not a UP parent as such btw

Sparklyboots · 24/02/2013 20:27

You are cross because you think he's been naughty, so to be very precise about this, it's your thoughts that are causing your feelings, your beliefs about his behaviour and what you think it should be. In the strictest sense, then,, he hasn't caused your feelings, they are your responsibility. Which is probably a distinction not actually useful to finding a solution, but you might feel a bit better if you can let go of those thoughts. Anyway, how will being cross at him help him modify future behaviour? I'd guess he might feel afraid of your response about possessions of yours he interacts with which might make him more careful but won't teach him the actual value of those things. Perhaps you could approach it by sharing how and why you value that picture, and have a wider discussion about how things become meaningful?

MrsSham · 24/02/2013 20:50

WHy are you cross though?

Ozziegirly · 25/02/2013 05:49

I'd be cross if a picture had been randomly thrown away because a child didn't like it! I guess you can be cross without being shouty - I reckon I would say "I am cross that you threw the picture in the bin and now it is ruined. If you don't like something, it's not your place to throw it away, just as I wouldn't throw something of yours away if I didn't like it"

But absent any other reason, it does seem quite an odd thing to do. He just decided, I don't like that picture, calmly got it off the wall and binned it? I think I'd be having a discussion about respecting other people's property.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 26/02/2013 13:59

"I would be cross if a sentient and rational adult with the ability and power to express themself did it, but if my 6 yr old did it, I'd think Wow, what was that about?"

I am both cross that he did it and also thinking "Wow, what was that about? He wouldn't do that for no reason, why has he done it. Is it something to be worried about?"

"You are cross because you think he's been naughty, so to be very precise about this, it's your thoughts that are causing your feelings, your beliefs about his behaviour and what you think it should be. In the strictest sense, then, he hasn't caused your feelings, they are your responsibility." Erm, am I the only one on here who thinks this was a naughty thing to do? Him doing a naughty and disrespectful thing has caused me to be cross.

Still haven't gotten to the bottom of it. He just keeps saying he doesn't like it, it's rubbish and he doesn't want to look at it. When asked why I just get I don't know.

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MrsSham · 26/02/2013 14:11

I would maybe leave it for now then but if you feel he should pay for it be replaced maybe take it out of treats you would have other wise bought for him and have the picture re printed and tell him unless he can express why he does not like it, it will be replaced and will be on display again and you will be happy to listen to what he does not like about it and come up with a compromise. I think that may help because at 6 he maybe should be working on his reasoning skills I would accept that explanation of I don't know from a much you get child but at 6 I would expect him to be able to engage and at at least attempt to see it from your point of view, especially if you feel you have been receptive to him opening up.

MrsSham · 26/02/2013 14:12

Younger, not, you get. Auto correct grrr

Sparklyboots · 26/02/2013 18:14

"Erm, am I the only one on here who thinks this was a naughty thing to do? Him doing a naughty and disrespectful thing has caused me to be cross. "

Well, I recognise the distinction is a fine toothed one. But one of the reasons I'm UPing is because in my family system, we were often held responsible for other people's feelings, so were coerced into compliance through guilt and feelings that my parents' happiness depended on us being 'good'. I found it pretty toxic. I'd like to be clear that I do not think you are anywhere near toxic in what you've described here - but you do hold him responsible for your feelings which is quite a lot of power to give to your 6 year old.

The fact is your response is your choice. Putting pictures in the bin doesn't cause crossness, in the way that putting your hand in a fire causes burning. You, the person responding, have choices about how you respond. Posters here have given lots of responses and many of them say they wouldn't be cross, probably because they haven't labelled his behaviour as naughty. So, the crossness has arisen from how you've responded to the incident (he's naughty!), not the incident itself . You could have chosen to think he was 'confused' about how to behave around others' possessions. Or you could have chosen to think he was 'very upset' with the people in the picture. Or you could have chosen to think he was 'curious' about what might happen if he did it. In any of those scenarios you would probably still talk him through why not to take the action he did, but you wouldn't think it necessary to give him your feelings of crossness along with the information.

Ozziegirly · 27/02/2013 03:18

Surely any NT 6yo knows that if you take a picture off the wall and put it in the bin, mummy won't be pleased?

My 2 yo has just drawn on our sofa while I was changing his brother's nappy and if he was "curious" about the outcome, well now he knows - mummy is cross because you have damanged the sofa.

UP sounds nice in theory but in my opinion children need to know "normal" reactions to things, which are; if you deface\throw away someone's property, they will be annoyed.

Original poster

nappyaddict · 27/02/2013 11:50

Even if he had done it because he was very upset with the people in the picture I would still be cross and also sad not only because it was an item that was sentimental but that he was so upset with us he wanted to put us in the bin and throw us away.

Whatever his reasons are for doing it I would help him explore those and talk them through but I would still say that I was cross and upset because that is the truth and I think he should know how his actions affect others. Isn't UP about teaching your children to think about other people's point of view and feelings as well as their own? I want him to have respect for not only our things as a family but his own things as well. Purposefully damaging things or throwing other people's things away equals naughty in my eyes.

If he smashed up something of his own I would still say I was cross because he had not treated his things with respect. If it was through temper I would agree that controlling your temper can be very hard when you are very very angry and sometimes you think that breaking things will make you feel better. It might make you feel better and release your anger for a split second but after you will feel bad about what you broke. And then give him some better ideas like throwing soft things, jumping up and down on a pillow etc.

Like I say if it had been an accident caused by his curiosity I would have been annoyed but not cross. For example the other day DP left out some mould and mildew spray. DS probably saw it as a fun bottle to play with or maybe he thought it was like Febreeze which I often spray about. I caught him squirting it everywhere and quickly removed it explaining that he can't play with it because it is dangerous and can hurt your eyes and ruin your clothes. However I didn't realise he had already got some on DP's coat. I only realised once the colour had been taken out of it. I said to DS did you know you that spray had got on Daddy's coat when you were spraying it around the kitchen? He knodded. I said to him this spray takes the colour out of things and can't be fixed once that has happened. If you had told me straight away I could have put it in the washing machine and fixed it and now Daddy will be annoyed his coat got ruined. Daddy also should have tidied the spray away so you couldn't play with it.

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