My 12yo has absolutely no boundaries whatsoever

[Shinyshoes1]

I have been worried about my ds for a few years now
He has absolutely no concept of boundaries .
Tonight he has
Tried to fart on DD numerous times to the point he very nearly poos himself
Burps so loud he nearly brings up sick
Sucked on her fingers
Called dd a fagott
Said ' what's wrong with you are you south African '

This is just the very tip of the iceberg . He often says inappropriate things , can't remember off the top of my head .
Nothing really excites him apart from his tablet and the ps3 which we control

I have asked both his primary school and secondary school if he is aspergers , they don't seem to think so

I lose patience very quickly

Any advice ?

He doesn't suond autistic to me - just sounds as thought you've talked a lot to him about how his behaviour is inappropriate - but haven't actually done anything about it.

Have you explained why? Not just dont talk/act like that.
As adults we understand why, but children generally don't, because unlike us as adults they still haven't been taught. Hence when making homophobic comments, talk about feelings, that people are free to choose who they want to be with and things like that. When he's sucking her finger, have you approached personal space and that everyone, not just him are allowed their own space.

Even if it transpires that he has sn, it is still no reason for his behaviour to be dealt with.

Do the school actually have any concerns at all about how he is in school, or is this stuff when he is at home?

DP is involved but he sweats the petty things like leaving a cupboard door open but not the major things .
He moans at me more for trying to get through to ds

If he's not behaving inappropriately at school then it does sound like he is aware, on some level, of the fact that do boundaries exist. He's obviously OK with the boundaries that exist at school, or you'd know about it.

Assuming there are no special needs it seems that he's choosing to behave this way at home. I think some tough love is called for - a warning, then a swift and immediate consequence. Don't be shouty - icy calm and as few words as possible can be way more effective.

The school have no problem with him it's at home there's a problem

Sorry, xposted. Is he well behaved at school generally? Does he interact and make friends relatively well? Speak to the people who are authority in life,so cadet leaders, teachers, you don't have to talk in detail about anything o course, but just ask about general related things. Make sure to take away his tablet and PS3 but maybe after a certain period of time, he can get it back quicker, so after a certain amount of time he can also have a chance to almost win it back.

Xposted again

[slow]

I have talked to him about his homophobic and racist language telling him why it's not acceptable
He calls us / me / people around him terrorists .
I don't actually believe he knows what it means I believe he's heard it , knows its offensive and sees it as another word he can use

Afaik he has friends in school .
He has no friends where we live now , at the end of this month we've been in this house a year , there's really no one his age around here
I don't think he has that many friends socially , 2 or 3 maybe
He falls out with people often

Yes he seems to be well behaved at school .

If there are no problems at school at all, then the chances of being sn are very small. Autism isn't selective.

If he is doing this for negative attention, have you tried to ignore it? If he is looking for a reaction, he knows he does x,y and z and you will react.

Exactly how over the years have you tried to tackle it?

Confiscating things , grounding , taking him out just DP and I to try and talk to him

We did this last week , we could see he was craving attention so we took him out for a meal

The week before that DP took him to the cinema because he was on a bit of a slippery slope

Given free reign, that's the sort of stuff I think my 12 year old would do sometimes - he takes phases when as I describe it - he can't be happy unless someone else is crying. It seems to be impulsive attention seeking.

He didn't and doesn't get away with it, and we don't see it often, we have always been really strict and it has definitely decreased as he has got older but when he was little he pushed his brother down the stairs, he kicked him of his bed and made him bash his chin completely impulsive and he is not generally like that.

He was being bullied at school for a while and became very anxious and exhibited a lot of Aspergers type behaviour. We got a referral for him but in the end, after the initial consultation they and we decided not to fully test him as they felt at best the result would come out borderline and by that point his anxiety levels had decreased (really good teacher at school sorted a lot of the bullying and made some changes in the classroom that helped).

But as you say, sometimes he doesn't seem to get some of the social rules still. He does have very clear boundaries and we keep him occupied a lot. He is very clever and boredom seems to be when issues arise - that and blackcurrant juice for some reason seems to be a problem.

shiny - that sounds like a lot of attention and money for a boy who is being so badly behaved.

Was it you that had issues with your boys losing Oyster cards, and with your DP buying them loads of stuff in additional to their allowances?

If that was you, then I honestly think that you have a general problem with discipline. He has no boundaries because you haven't given him any - this incident is a case in point, you have chosen to punish your DD because you feel you will get a more satisfactory response.

If he behaves at school, then he has no disorders, or LDs, or 'isms'. He is choosing to behave in this way at home because he can.

Yes alibaba it was me for all that you have mentioned .

I don't consider myself a bad parent but what do you suggest ? What can I do ?

My DP didn't buy lots of stuff it was me

Why are you punishing your five year old?

She doesn't want her older brother sucking her fingers. She needs your help to stop this.

I didn't " punish" her I yelled at her and him and repeatedly I've said I've made a mistake and will apologise to her

If you are confident there is no issue like ADHD underlying the bad behaviours, impulsive actions etc. then you really need to look at how you are parenting. If he is smart enough to know he needs to behave properly at school, and can maintain that behaviour through an entire day, then his behaviour at home is a choice.

Firstly I recommend you read Have A New Kid By Friday and look at ways to consistently and swifly react to your sons negative behaviours. You need to react the first times he behaves badly. For example you say he has repeatedly tried to fart on his sister, who is years younger. That is such anti-social behaviour. Put up to his room the first time he does it and keep doing this each and every time. Yes it is tedious and repetitive but you have to show him that firm boundaries actually exist - you must impose them.

You need to also address not just his physical actions but his name calling and use of abusive language. These are issues you as a family need to take action on and you need to get your DP to start acting consistently with you. I would definitely sit down with DP and agree what you are not going to tolerate any longer and how you are going to act if your son transgresses. Both parents need to be acting in a consistent manner on this. Your sons language, if it continues as he is older, could land him in serious trouble; perhaps it is time to start explaining to him that hurling racist and homophobic language at people is against the law, he is over the age of criminal responsibility and - if he goes on to use this type of language out of the home - he could end up in serious trouble. Maybe shock tactics are needed to make him appreciate how unsavoury his behaviour is.

As well as looking at the way you are parenting - consistency, clear sanctions etc I do think you need to look closely at whether your son has some kind of problem beyond bad behaviour that counselling or similar might help him with. I don't think sitting whispering 'you're mine all mine' at a five year old necessarily demonstrates a loving action and the sucking of her fingers is, frankly, bizarre in a child his age.

Sorry but am I the only one who thinks him saying "your all mine" to his sister is a bit odd?
Where has he seen the finger sucking?

Ah adopt thank goodness it's not just me!

Yes, that concerned me. Very odd behaviour.

You can ask gp to refer you . Maybe his behaviour is different at school and he contains it within the safety of a timetable and rules but cannot do so at home. Perhaps asking them specifically about AS is a red herring . List all your concerns , keep a diary and visit gp without him first.

What consistent rules and sanctions have you put in place for him over the last 6 or 7 years? If there are few or no problems at school and lots of significant ones at home, you need to look at why and what the differences are.
To me it sounds as if he is doing whatever he likes with little guidance from anyone else as to what constitutes acceptable or not, and with no boundaries in sight, so how is he supposed to keep them?
Blaming a 5 year old for a 12 year old's inappropriate behaviour is way beyond reasonable.
You need parenting and behaviour management advice, either from books, MN or from classes.