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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Monstrous behaviour from 3 year old DS

28 replies

zebedeethezebra · 10/01/2013 13:31

My otherwise charming DS (who is 3 next week) has over the last month or so become a complete monster. Examples:

Throwing things in the loo
Throwing things in or out of the bath
Throwing things down the stairs
Throwing water out of the bath
Snatching my glasses (actually he's done this since he was a baby)
Kicking, hitting, biting or pulling on my clothes (even when he is getting attention)
Ripping books, etc

Is this some sort of phase that most boys go through and how long will it last?

Yesterday was a total nightmare. At dinner he threw some of his food. He had already had various soft animals confiscated for throwing water / things out of the bath. Then whilst my back was turned to get his pyjamas he started throwing his toys down the stairs. And as fast as I could pick things up, he threw more and more, books, clothes, toys, basically anything he could lay his hand on. The stairs were so covered in stuff I couldn't take him downstairs and out of the house to cool off because I was worried we would both trip on something and fall down.

We had had a similar (but less severe) episode earlier in the afternoon when he didn't want to nap and I made him help me to clear the mess up. Then I said he couldn't have any tv after dinner. But it was far worse in the evening.

Quite frankly I didn't know what to do, as nothing would stop him (unless I just basically sat on him until DP got home). There was nothing left to confiscate. DS thought it was hilarious. DP was furious when he came home from work to such a mess (obviously) and basically said I should control him more.

What am I supposed to do? He doesn't respond to time out as he won't stay still in one place whatever I do. Is it really so hard to control a 3 year old?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

FunnysInLaJardin · 10/01/2013 13:35

and mine. He's 3 in Feb. Just as I was thinking the tantrums must be ending soon he has ramped it up. We have variously threatened to take his toys away, taken toys away, shouted and ranted and raved at him. It works for a bit and then he thinks up a new ruse. It is just a phase and I am seriously hoping that by 3.5 he will be a tad more biddable like his brother was. It's just exhausting while he's like this

FlatsInDagenham · 10/01/2013 13:38

It can be bloody hard to control a 3 year old. Please don't blame yourself (and have a for your DP and his supportive comments).

I find the only thing that works at that age is distraction, e.g. "Oh DS, look, LOOK!" whilst ogling out of the window at anything moving.

LoopsInHoops · 10/01/2013 13:38

naughty step?

FunnysInLaJardin · 10/01/2013 13:41

ah I have just read the bit about your DH not supporting you. He needs to understand that it's not you but a phase your DS is going though and he needs to support you all the way. Once your DC twigs that his parents are at odds with each other things will get a lot worse. I only cope with my DC because I have my DH's unconditional support.

BTW last night we got him to stay in bed by silently taking him up to bed and putting him in with speaking or eye contact. He hated it and kept trying to pull my face round to look at him. It worked though and after a few go's he was asleep by 8pm rather than 10pm which has been the norm

AmberLeaf · 10/01/2013 13:44

It sounds like you and your DS have just invented a fun new game!

he started throwing his toys down the stairs. And as fast as I could pick things up, he threw more and more, books, clothes, toys, basically anything he could lay his hand on

If he throws things, don't you pick them up. he will get the message.

I don't think it sounds that bad TBH.

The first 4 things on your list are not great but not monsterous IMO.

I wouldn't be happy about book ripping though.

Do you take him out every day or does he go to pre school?

JiltedJohnsJulie · 10/01/2013 13:44

Don't think delayed punishments work at this age, I'm thinking of the no tv comment.

What do you do when he is aggressive towards you and what do you do about throwing food?

Have you read House of Tiny Tearaways too? Its evidence based and Dr Tanya Byron is also a parent, unlike some other child experts

gastrognome · 10/01/2013 13:44

It's awful when they start acting like this, isn't it!

He probably noticed that what he was doing got a reaction (and that's hardly surprising, given what he was up to) so he kept on doing it. My DD used to behave similarly and the more wound up I got, the more she would carry on.

Punishment per se never worked, and the best strategy I found was to keep my reacion as neutral and disinterested as possible, while not completely ignoring the behaviour either. And then (try to) get them to help tidy up when the throwing has finished.

It's really hard to stay neutral when they are playing up, but it does help! The idea is that you use your energy for the positive stuff, and try and expend as little as possible reacting to the negatives.

AmberLeaf · 10/01/2013 13:46

I don't understand why your DH was furious either?

Most houses with small children have some level of mess by tea time, is it usual for your DH to be unhappy with mess?

swanthingafteranother · 10/01/2013 15:06

I think you had an escalation situation there. The more you "punished" the more stressed and naughty he got.
I think distraction would have worked much better. Timeout is not always a good solution when a child is behaving in a very naughty way because it creates even more tension and stress.

I think you have to turn things round to find something he likes doing which you are praising. I think he was in the driving seat there, and the naughtier he was the more attention he got and the more the spotlight was on him.

A way of doing things is to think not of consequences for bad behaviour but trying to find something he wants to do, which you can be positive about. Like find a book to read after bath, or make wonderful bubbles, or join you in a story about the bath monster etc.

Read How To Talk So Kids Listen by Faber. She talks about how you can win children over to your point of view in various ways, using distraction and empathy. Sounds mushy but it is an eye opener. And it works.

I sense a lot of tension about your husband's reaction too. If you are trying to change things you need to have a chat with your husband to back off this week and see if you can turn things around, without worrying about him too. One battle at a time. I used to get so stressed about what my husband thought [of the mess] when he came home, but really that was NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, the most important thing was that we were all happy and the children went to bed in a calm destressed atmosphere. I was putting three kids to bed at the time under 3 so I feel your pain...

swanthingafteranother · 10/01/2013 15:07

And of course I don't think it okay to throw things

Just that you have to work out why he is doing it? Stress, attention seeking, boredom...cue intervention to solve those issues. Get him on your side.

swanthingafteranother · 10/01/2013 15:10

Also they are very interested in cause and effect, so find some kinetic practices! Bricks, splashing, puddles, soft balls throwing outside, skittles, all might help divert from throwing the wrong stuff. Pile of cushions to demolish; safe ways to use energy when he wants to smash things or throw things.

Throwing in after all a very useful skill in the right setting.

swanthingafteranother · 10/01/2013 15:10

throwing is

Original poster

zebedeethezebra · 10/01/2013 16:34

Thanks for your support. I was trying to clear up the mess without making too much attention of it, but with all the stress of more stuff being lobbed over the stairgate every 10 seconds, things like distraction just didn't occur to me at the time. I couldn't reason with DS either.

We had been out during the day, and we had quite a long walk in the morning. In fact we had a great morning, so I don't understand why DS flipped. He clearly still had a lot of energy left!

I didn't get any support from DP. Sometimes its like having 2 children in the house to be honest.

If there is any more advice going, I'm glad to receive it.

OP posts:

cakehappy · 10/01/2013 21:36

I can't believe your H was furious! ( and why did you write, obviously...?) Obviously he's never had to take care of a 3 year old. Grrrr...

JiltedJohnsJulie · 10/01/2013 21:44

Does your DH ever get to look after Ds alone?

HoratiaWinwood · 10/01/2013 21:49

Overtired? Sounds like my DS2 behaves when he is knackered.

You will need a safe place to put him when he is driving you mad having a tantrum like that. Travel cot? Safe bedroom (hold door shut)?

Badvoc · 10/01/2013 21:50

Well you need to a) tell your dh to fuck off and b) ignore your sons behaviour.
He is doing these things to get a reaction and boy are you giving him reactions!
It's not easy...it isn't, but ignoring the behaviour whilst making sure they aren't in any physical danger is the way to go.
Wrt splashing and getting water out of the bath...let him, but then make him clear it up with you.
Bath times are tend to be messy/watery :)
Does he still nap? Is her getting over tired/sensory overload?

BertieBotts · 10/01/2013 21:55

This is a massive leap and I apologise if I'm totally off the mark, but if your DP is a bit of an arse (just picked up that you said he was "angry" at the mess, said you "should have controlled DS more" and the fact you say you get no support and he is like another child sometimes) perhaps DS is picking up on this and his behaviour is resulting from it? That doesn't mean you shouldn't deal with the behaviour, but perhaps that the relationship issues might be affecting it more than you realise.

Again apologies if I'm wrong as it's only a couple of points you made, just thought it could be a possibility.

BertieBotts · 10/01/2013 21:57

If my DS used to throw water out of the bath or at me then I used to take his toys out of the bath one by one I feel mean now! But he did stop doing it, and our bathroom is really crappily done and not that watertight so I don't particularly want a massive flood everywhere to clean up TBH.

Jcee · 10/01/2013 21:59

Please don't blame yourself, 3 year olds can be a nightmare. I feel your pain as DD has just turned 3 and become really difficult especially at bedtime as she has discovered its a good rouse to stay up and she seems to thrive on my stress.

We have found being as disinterested as possible in what has happened when she is naughty seems to work as well as it no longer seems to be exciting (but I find this really really hard sometimes) as well as offering choices eg 'i'm getting quite cross now so you can carry on throwing the toys down the stairs' or ' you can come with mummy and put your pyjamas on and pick some books to read' or insert interesting, more attractive activity.

JiltedJohnsJulie · 10/01/2013 22:02

You are not cruel BB, well not by my standards! We have a strict "water stays in the bath" rule. If they splash it out once I say the rule, if they throw it out a second time I pull the plug and get them out.

harrietspy · 10/01/2013 22:08

I'd definitely second reading the Faber and Mazlish book, How to talk so kids will listen. It didn't 'cure' ds2's behaviour but it made me less angry with ds2/less cross with myself.

Be really kind to yourself - this is not your fault - and remember this is a phase. And you have my sympathy: I had a dh who was shocked by ds's behaviour, thought it was all my fault and that I should 'control' ds better.

When I was going mad about the throwing and had been knocked sick by a wooden ball between the eyes, a wise friend (mother of 3 & early years worker & one of sanest women I know) said that there's lots of educational/psychological research into how dc learn about physical environment and that while some dc line things up, some children throw stuff. I'm not saying it can't be attention-seeking, etc, but she was saying that there are various observable types of learners and that some dc at that age investigate the world through throwing. It really helped me to know that (but it was still hard).

I hope tomorrow is calmer for all of you.

Charmingbaker · 10/01/2013 22:22

It sounds to me like your son has a trajectory schema.
Schemas are patterns of repeatable behaviour which are quite common in young children's play. Children with a trajectory schema like objects and themselves to move in straight lines, they often lime running around and throwing things.
(The teletubbies are all based on schemas, the one with the ball is the trajectory schema- throwing the ball and running after it)
Schemas used to underpin alot of early years teaching, though not so common now. The idea is that the child has a strong urge to follow their schema ( some children have a prominent schema others don't) rather than fighting the schema find ways the child can play this way that is suitable. So for a trajectory schema lots of time outside running, sliding, bats and balls ( swingball is great, or make your own version by hanging things on a washing line). Inside cars and ramps, play games where you throw soft toys/ rolled up socks into a bin/ box get a soft ball and make your own skittles games. In the bath give him lots of things he can pour, there's also a bath basketball toy.
If he has an opportunity to throw on acceptable ways he won't feel the need so much to do it in a destructive way, though there will be a transitional period where he learns what is and isn't acceptable.

swanthingafteranother · 10/01/2013 22:25

Gosh, you learn something everyday on Mumsnet... Trajectory Schema. Wow. Will remember that...

(adds to list of exciting phrases)

FunnysInLaJardin · 10/01/2013 22:38

lol DS1 had a enclosure schema in nursery. It meant he liked putting things in bags........He now doesn't particularly aged 7

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