How do I stop this secret eating?

[dontcallmehon]

I'm at the end of my tether. The dc have a healthy diet, not too strict as in they can have the odd treat. They get juice at nana's house or when we're out, otherwise we stick to water or milk.

However, 6 year old dd1 will binge on any sweet food she finds. She will climb on chairs to get to it and generously shares her cache with dd2 and ds. I usually find the evidence: wrappers etc, stashed away. We don't buy much sweet food and much of it has been bought by well meaning relatives. Not wanting to throw food away, I hide it, to be dished out in small quantities when appropriate. Dd1 always finds it and eats it all. She will binge on apples even, the 3 of them eat every single piece till they are gone. They are very sneaky about it and manage not to be caught somehow!

I am desperately worried, as dd1 and 2 now have dental cavities and ds has discoloration on his back teeth. I brush three times a day. They use a children's mouthwash. I have told and told dd1 that she will damage her teeth. All to no avail.

I have stopped buying apples. We bought a melon instead, so they can't gorge on it. They ate a full pack of strawberries I bought an hour ago. I promise you that they are supervised, but there are three of them and I can't be everywhere at once. I just don't know what to do. We contemplated locking the kitchen and fridge, but it would have to be a padlock or dd1 would figure it out.

I had bulimia in my teens, I'm worried dd1 will go the same way. I'm worried about their teeth. I don't have chocolates in the house, but I can't ban fruit!

If they are eating orange after orange and apple after apple, then I need to ration it.

I am brushing three times a day - but we are still having problems! I am happy for them to have a slice of toast or some cheese if they are genuinely hungry. Most of the time they can't even finish their meals and there is always more if they want it.

If I didn't ration fruit, then I would be buying a bag of apples and a bag of oranges every day. I would like to start giving them sweet things after meals, but I'll have to think of a place to put them where they won't discover them and eat them all at once, before we even get to meal times.

I have never controlled their food in the past - they have always had sweet things/treats at school/ice creams/juice on occasion. That's why I don't understand why they are doing this.

Is this over christmas especially or started before then?

It started before then, but got worse over christmas. I let them have chocolate out of their selection boxes when they wanted, but they were eating everything at once. If I put anything high up they would find them. dd1 has substantial cavities and has been doing this for a while, so I feel like a failure that I can't seem to stop her doing it. My reaction is to become stricter, as clearly being relaxed hasn't worked in the past.

Today they have two shredded wheat with raisins and apricots for breakfast (I know raisins are terrible for teeth - but it might be better and satisfy sweet cravings to have them with a meal).

For lunch they have a full size cheese sandwich, two big chunky melon slices, carrot sticks and a pack of garlic and herb croutons. I will do something protein based for dinner and maybe chopped up boiled eggs to snack on.

Perhaps start the day off with something more substantial,
I would not give cereal for breakfast, unless they will have porridge,or scrambled eggs etc as well,
Try the book by mumsnet s favourite nutritionalist, can't remember her name but she does great recipes and healthy fruit based snacks etc , assuming you don't mind cooking.
Good luck this child rearing thing is hard work.

Is this over christmas especially or started before then?

Sorry about posting that twice! Mine are extra challenging at christmas as we are out of routine and i am constantly whined at with the iiiimmmm hhhuuunnnggrryyy voice. I know they are just pushing my buttons so just have to tell them where to go for 'free' foods! (Ds would much rather polish off a selection box a day and have nothing else which is why i am so strict!)
Have you asked them why they are sneaking the food?

There are other things that impact on teeth, reflux as an example or not brushing with flouride toothpaste in an area where it isn't added to water etc We don't all have the same enamel anyway I presume these are baby teeth so will fall out? I don't want t sound glib but cavities aren't a sign that you have failed as a parent.

I would start the day with porridge, maybe look at meal times and do early lunch and tea and little healthy supper that you control. I would empty the house of sweet treats you don't want them to have and allow them a few pieces of fruit and stock the bowl with bramleys which are great baked but if your dc eat three at once then I reckon they are hungry!

Cupboard locks, tempting caches to hunt for, banning stuff outright is ott though getting in trouble for emptying the fruit bowl if asked not to quite reasonable. I think it takes enormous control to not eat sweet stuff if you know it is there, I can't do it.

Leave sweets in a bag in the car boot, perhaps, and bring in small amounts once or twice a week.

All those saying children with strict food rules end up gorging at parties etc, my ds is always the last to stop eating at parties, will eat any chocolate in one go, generally seems to have no control when it comes to junk food, including crisps, chips etc. At home he is allowed as much as he wants at mealtimes, crisps, cake, sweets of some kind everyday but is still greedy with junk food. Surely some kids are just greedy?

He doesn't sneak food even though he knows the treats are there, but he will gorge if given the chance.

My son gets ravenous during growth spurts and is famed for his constant need to eat when he's visiting friends! Maybe as others suggest, more daytime protein needed and being back at school without option to snack will help them recalibrate their appetites. The more junk I eat, the more I crave it but when back to normal non holiday routine my body usually stops craving so much junk too.

Fact that they are eating healthy things as much as not so healthy suggests they certainly have real appetites rather than cravings but are they drinking enough liquids during the day? I try to limit how many juices and smoothies mine have a day, usually just at breakfast and after school, rest of time water as sometimes thirst can be mistaken for hunger and too much juice not good for teeth.

Also dentist told me its not how many sweets or acid things you eat which damage teeth, it's how often, ie 10 sweets in one sitting followed by teeth brushing or sloshing better than 5 sweets eaten at different times of the day!

My dc are just greedy. They haven't been controlled by me in the past, but cannot stop themselves eating. They often don't finish meals and refuse savoury snacks when offered. I think they get a little peckish between meals and so gorge on sugary snacks. Surely they need to be a little hungry just before a meal? If they are satiated all the time, they will be grazing constantly!

They do get snacks and substantial portions, but they need to be a little hungry before a meal or they won't eat it!

My dentist said the same thing. I don't mind them having something sweet after meals, but I'll have to hide them in the car boot. They really don't have juice at home, so I don't understand why we're getting these dental issues. It must be the secret snacking.

Oh and we do use an adult toothpaste with fluoride. Ds has had his teeth treated with fluoride too.

Dd2's dentist asked if she fell asleep with a bottle as a toddler, as the holes in her front teeth were associated with that. Dd has never had a bottle and only drank water out of an open cup! So much for breastfeeding being protective for teeth!

Oh, how stressful and worrying the dental angle of things is for you.

Of course diet and tooth hygiene affect the amount of cavities people have, although genes have a part to play too.

Is there a history of not great teeth in your or their dad's family?

Dh had terrible teeth as a child, they are very brittle. I have great teeth now, but had 6 fillings as a child.

The breastfeeding still was! Things could be worse...

Could they be given a shelf in the fridge they can access any time with things you don't mind that they eat anytime - carrots, peppers, cheese, natural yoghurt with honey? And I'd just get rid of all the junk food you "hide" in the cupboard. My MIL used to constantly give us loads of sweets and chocolate which I just used to drop into the nearest homeless shelter (unopened). Sounds like they get the occasional treat anyway so you don't need to keep all the junk you get given if you don't want them to have it often.

The more you post, the more I think there may be two issues here.

If you really think a child is binging, I would say to consult Ellyn Satter (book I mentioned above). I am sure your children aren't underfed, and you sound quite sensible in your approach, but she has advice for helping kids learn to self-regulate and develop healthy attitudes toward food.

I also think it might be worth exploring the tooth decay more -- if you are brushing regularly and the kids aren't walking around with bottles of lemonade, perhaps there is something else in play causing the decay? I remember a poster a while back who had been told BF caused her child's tooth decay and finally, years later, she learned her daughter had some type of reflux. I don't have any experience in this area, but it's worth checking. Obviously the dentist is going to assume you aren't doing your job as that's the most common problem but it sounds like you are being vigilant and it is happening anyway.

My DC's seem to be eating me out of house and home at the moment too. They are older than yours but they seem to be genuinely hungry.
DS is just turned 12 and he is the skinniest thing ever but at lunch today he ate a bagel with ham and cheese, a cheese tostie, a sausage roll, a piece of home made cake and was moving on to the fruit afterwards.
At the moment this is quite normal and he is eating at least as much as me at dinner too.
He goes through spurts like this,- did when he was younger too. I have learnt that he genuinely is hungry ( runs it off) and to let him eat when he is like this. It lasts a few weeks then he goes back to eating much less, and more what I would expect once the growth spurt is done.

Thanks all, some useful comments. To the poster up thread who thought three times a day brushing sounded excessive, I asked the dentist and she thought it was a good idea. I will stock the fridge with healthy free snacks for grazing. They do like raw peppers and carrots. I'll do cubes of cheese and boiled eggs.

When I first started reading your thread I thought it sounded like they weren't being fed enough - it's not uncommon when one of the parents, especially the Mum has (had/has?!) eating issues of their/her own. It is not a criticism, simply an observation. Also a lot of parents can vastly under or over estimate how much a child needs to eat - again causing problems. Children (on the whole) are very, very good at regulating what they need to eat, especially when they are small, but we all tend to over ride this (though one thing or another) and stop them using their own body to determine hunger.

It is still hard to know if they are eating enough or not, but from what you have said it would appear they are getting decent size portions and fairly free access to other food if they want it. One thing that did stand out though was that you said they had eaten a punnet of strawberries between them (and sounded suprised, like that was greedy/over the top) lots of children can do that on their own - let alone shared by 3. So there is a possibility that you feel they are 'binging' when in fact they are just eating like normal children?!

It's not normal for a parent to feel a child is 'binging' on apples or oranges and it's not normal for a child to do so really. How many would you say they would eat if there was an unlimited supply?

I actually think the best thing to do would be to use some of the suggestions above (ie eggs/porridge etc for breakfast) and ask a friend you trust to come and spend some time at your house - preferably one who has older children (so has been there - done that) or one who in some other way has a lot of experience with children the ages of yours. Let them see what the kids are like and they can offer you some idea of whether they seem 'normal' or not. If they can come for a weekend or whatever, that would be good.

Another thing is to look into getting some tests done to see if they are lacking in something. I know when I'm not eating enough dark green veg I just keep eating and eating and not being satisfied - clearly I'm lacking in something and when I wake up to what I'm doing a good serving or two of strong green veg and I'm much better.

Please don't single them out at school and don't demonise the sweets they get there - once a week really isn't a big deal.

I'm sorry it is stressing you out so much and please don't take any of it as critiscism, it really, really isn't!!

Maybe I'm forgetting that they are sharing it between the three of them. I just don't understand why they have these dental issues. I was relaxed before that. There must be a reason and I guess I'm looking for some cause. The dentist mentioned diet and as all three have issues, I thought it must be.

I won't stop them having sweets at school. I just felt helpless and didn't know what to do.