no speech at 2 years and 2 months.........worried.

[chubbymomie2012]

im worried about my 3rd child. he is 2 yrs and 2 months and has little to no speech. he is the first child i have had the luxury of staying at home with and now we him and a baby of 9 months at home.
we always talk to him and he has had a hearing test which was fine. they health visitor said she wouldnt worry until he is 3 but surely thats too late. should i push for help for him now? has any one else experience of this. all advice gratefully accepted.

I had similar worries about my DS at the same age, and my HV was similarly not worried. By two and a half he wouldn't shut up! Is he developing well in.other ways?

What is his comprehension like, does he easily understand what you say to him, OP?

hi seems to understand but alot of the time he seems to be ignoring us. he is very easily distracted and does things like run round in circles untill he falls down then laughs. his development seems fine he is a great wee footballer and can dribble better than his 13 yr old brother lol.

I think 3 is quite late for a referral, because it might then take months to come through!

this is a good website;

www.talkingpoint.org.uk/en/Parent/Directory/Progress-Checker.aspx

I agree that 3 is tending to be late, you could talk to a SLT now about things you can do to help bring his language on. I would push for that consultation.

My DD2 is just coming up on 3 and I will be getting her assessed very soon. She was very slow to speak. At 2.4 she only had about half a dozen words (only 2 of which were consistent and clear), and no sentences although her receptive language was clearly good and she could follow instructions (though struggles with multi-step ones). She has come on in leaps and bounds but her speech is poor and is obviously delayed; she is also very difficult to understand. I know she is missing the ability to make a lot of sounds (eg /s/ /j/) and can't do word endings. She also does not make the right mouth shape to make some sounds. So there are definite issues that need intervention.

I don't know if they leave formal ST until they are this age as then it can be easier to see the deficits and for the child to participate meaningfully in the therapy. Perhaps it would be a good idea to get the ball rolling now for an assessment if there is likely to be a waiting list?

I also think my DD2 is a bit lazy as she has the older one to interpret her every gesture. I've had some success at home in forcing eye contact (down on her level to help show exaggerated mouth movements) and insisting on verbal responses - so even when I know what the gesture or one word request means I push her to go for the 3-4 word sentence. Really insist on speech and ask the siblings to do the same.

At 2.3 when I first spoke to the dr. about it she agreed the speech was very delayed but said at that age all the ST would recommend is reading lots to her (and getting her to respond to the pictures etc) and put her into nursery to help give her peer examples of speech (she already went anyway). Maybe there is a play group you can go to so that he has lots of examples and is also more motivated to communicate? Good luck - it's a worry to be sure.

That seems very late - my DS3 was referred to Speech Therapy when he was 15mo, and was seen for his first appointment when he was 21mo.

He is starting intensive speech therapy at the end of January, when he turns two.

I would see your GP and REQUEST a referral to Speech and Language therapy. If by the time he gets to the top of the waiting list he is fine, then you can always cancel the appointment!

Three is far too late IMO. And DS3 is the third out of my four DC's to have needed SALT. (Probable genetic issue)

DD was seen at 2yo, speech is normal. DS1 had no speech difficulties, in fact was a very early talker. DS2 wasn't seen until he was over 4 as my PCT had no speech therapist at that time - and he has lasting speech and language issues even now at 9yo. DS3 has been seen for an initial assessment, and starts therapy at 2yo.

I fully believe that waiting until he is 3yo is an unacceptable delay.

Does he babble? That is an important first step. Does he understand what YOU say to him? Can he follow a simple instruction like "give me that bottle please" if he is holding a bottle? Does he try to communicate in other, non-verbal ways like putting things into your hand if he wants something, or pulling you to the fridge if he is hungry? Does he try to talk but you can't understand the words? Or is he still not trying to communicate at all except crying and whinging?

This is all information that can help the speech therapist to make his or her initial assessment.

On a positive note - Makaton signing combined with speaking can help. Something Special is good to watch, and there are a lot of Makaton resources on the CBeebies website.

I have had to 'sign and say' with all of my DC's that have had speech delays, and it has really helped. Now they all talk, even DS2, the only lingering problem with my 14yo DD are about 3 words that she consistently mispronounces, DS2 has more issues, but I'm convinced that that is a lot to do with the delay in him receiving Speech Therapy.

I wouldn't take no for an answer tbh, if he has no words at 2.2yo, then he has a fairly significant speech delay, the reasons for which should be investigated by a Speech Therapist.

At 21mo, my DS3 had 3 words and was assessed as having a full year Speech delay - so no words at all at 5 months older than that is IMO and IME rather concerning.

Is there another HV you can see - at a weighing clinic possibly? For a second opinion? I really, REALLY would not be happy to wait until 3yo for a referral - some areas can have a 6 month or more waiting list for Speech Therapy, that's a hell of a lot of time to lose!

It is often possible to self refer to speech therapy, or they may have an advice line where you could speak to a speech therapist, this may be good route to take for an earlier referral. Ds was referredwhen he was 10 months, but to the wrong area. When I phoned for advice, we saw someone within a week.

No words at all at 2.2 would definitely be considered reason for a SALT referral, imo.

in our area you can certainly self refer. I was fobbed off by hv but speech therapist happened to be in library / children's centre when I was so I referred at 2yrs 5mnths. for straight forward delays they don't do much in our area until 2yrs 6mnths but do an initial assessment within 2 weeks of a referral. I would request a referral now and not accept no for an answer better to act and there be no problem than to leave and find you could have done more. with ds1 we had simple activities to do with him over a month with weekly sessions then a break, another review followed by more sessions. he is now 6, speech is understandable but poor but has been discharged. we can then self refer again if concerned.

self refer for Salt or talk to GP to get a referral. bypass the HV.

my Dd was referred for Salt when she was 3. I d been asking HV and Gp since dd was two but neither was worried. the waiting list was then almost 1 year long (i.e dd was only seen shortly befire turning 4).Dd has since been dx with autism and at almost 5 is still very severely delayed.

your Ds might just be a late talker who will catch up in no time. or he might neef a lot help for his speech. you wont know. so i would rather get the ball rolling now.

do you have any other cincerns about your DS?

how does he communucate witj you? is ge pointing. does he bring xou things to show you?

ignore my typos...

OP, I'd definitely point out to your HCP that waiting until 3 isn't good enough! It can take many months to see a SALT, so your son could easily be 4 by the time that rolls around. I think the earlier the better, in terms of intervention and help.

DS2 is just 2 and has, now officially, speech delay. He has maybe 3 or 4 words and doesn't use them consistently, or only very rarely are they consistent. I can't tell if he understands what I say to him, as he doesn't follow instructions, but he does like 'zoning us out' and will happily potter in his own world, intently focussed on something and ignoring everything and everyone else. He has never pointed, handed me something he's interested in, or followed a point. He doesn't respond to his name about 90% of the time. I try signing some things but the problem is that he just doesn't watch my face or hands when I'm doing it. He rarely wants to look at books with someone else, but loves looking at them on his own.

He is mostly a happy little boy, not freaked out by social or busy situations or changes to routine, and loves exploring. All the same, I'm scared for him. I'm pretty sure by now that he ticks most of the crucial boxes for an ASD. We got a speech therapy referal from the HV at his two year check and I'm about to take him back to the GP, as we agreed I'd do when he was 2, to get a paed referal to be assessed. I'm rather dreading the road ahead, but desperate to get started on any early interventions that might break through to him, get him to interact more, and help with his speech. Is there anything I can be doing while I'm waiting to see a SALT? (Won't hold my breath!)

reshape- More than Words is supposed to be a really good book. i have not used it myself but know many by swear by it.

why don't you pop over to the SN board. a lot of us there have been in the same boat.

Reshape you have more or less described my son. He sounds identical to your lad. Yet I have been sayi g this to my HV for
Months and she keeps dining me off. I'm afraid now reading all these replys I am going to see GP tomo to request an independent referral. I owe the wee man that at least.

In our area you can self refer too. DS was slow to speak (he had had several bad ear infections which meant his ears were blocked and he missed out on several important stages of learning to talk). He had speech therapy and I learnt Makaton too, to help him.

He also went to a playgroup one morning a week run by speech therapists. The mothers could sit next door and watch through the viewing window. I learnt a lot and was able to continue the speech therapists approach at home.

He was fine by the time he started school. I am so pleased you are going to see your doctor, it's not easy. I used to say to myself 'I am doing for for DS because he can't do it himself'. Good luck. Do let you know how you get on.

chubby- ask the GP for a referral to a developmental paediatrician (and Salt as well).

research asd and make a list of the the boxes your DS ticks. some of the things you describe could be due to Asd but there might be another explanation.also do the
M CHAT and take the results witb you to the GP if they flag up anything. the m chat is a screening tool for asd.

your HV sounds awful. i had the same responses from my HV as well (DC has severe autism but HV found nothing wrong with an almost 3 year old non verbal child that struggled in a lot of other areas too).

and do not be fobbed off. good luck

Hi
I am a speech therapist, and I would recommend that you self-refer - I think very department in the country will take a self-referral. Phone them up - you should be able to make a referral by phone. The advice about asking the GP for a referral to a paediatrician may be good too - if you are not sure if he understands instructions and he doesn't really communicate by pointing, taking you to things etc. mention this when you speak to the speech therapy department - at the moment, many are prioritising referrals as they have so many and this would make him a higher priority in most places I think.

You mentioned an independent referral - you don't need to go to a GP for this - you can self-refer to an independent therapist if you want to. The best place to look for one is www.helpwithtalking.com I'm not sure if you meant that or just a referral from someone else other than HV, but the information is there if you want it anyway.

I have a blog about speech therapy in which I recently posted some advice for encouraging first words. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to it here, but if you would like a link, PM me and I will send it to you.

As other people have come out and mentioned ASD, I will be honest with you and tell you that my DS3 is going to be assessed for Autism in May.

And both my DD and my DS2 that had very similar delays are also on the Autistic Spectrum.

my mum tells the story of a girl I grew up with who didn't utter a word til 2.6, then woke up one morning speaking perfectly in sentences and continued to do so. She's now a high flyer in her 30's

oh yes, all these little einsteins who did not utter a word until and then went on to become a brain surgeon

sorry dibs - did not mean to be sarcastic but you won't believe how often people came up with these stories when DD (autism) did not develop speech.

That's great it obviously happens a lot

yes, choc, we get the same with ds. Someones uncle/brother/lady down the road etc etc, who didn't walk/talk/sit until they were 3 then went on to be a brain surgeon/olympian etc. I know they think they arree being reassuring, but it is actually a pretty depressing thing to hear when your child is being tested for genetic conditions which mean life long learning disabilitiies. I also find people will say, 'oh xxxx didn't talk until he was 3' but actually they mean he didn't talk very much, as opposed to being completely non-verbal.

It's the same with walking. My DD did need help with walking which I had thought for months, but everyone told me I was over worrying, they knew someone who didn't walk til age 3 and then got up and ran a marathon (including my GP).

Trust your instincts and early intervention helps!

The children who genuinely do have serious delays that self-resolve (talk at 3, become professor, etc) don't get off scott-free. They often struggle with social interaction, because it was problems reading social signals that delayed their speech in the first place

So if someone wants to make you think your child will speak at 3 and become a brain surgeon, let them, even believe them if you want to. But from the age of two don't let it delay you in taking action for one moment.

Unusually for a thread on this topic, no one has yet mentioned my all time favourite book It Takes Two to Talk, from the same website as the More than Words book. It's a great starting point because it refines your techniques as a parent - helps you to talk more as if you were a speech therapist, judging the way you talk to your child and eliminating your bad habits of trying to make them repeat words for the sake of it, etc. The only thing it doesn't touch on is problems a child has forming words. It is clear, doesn't make you panic, doesn't have milestone charts and can be lent to your extended family members without provoking tense discussions.

OP, what you were saying about him ignoring you. I really recommend the misleadingly titled dvd "teach me to listen and obey" from the www.teachmetotalk.com site. It's one of the vanishingly few high quality resources that actually help your child listen and understand. There's no point focussing on the words being produced (what's coming out) if things aren't going in before hand.

A lot of people say that book is hard to find and rather expensive, Lingle.
I can't believe reading the book is as good as talking to a real live SLT who has individually assessed your own child.