no speech at 2 years and 2 months.........worried.

[chubbymomie2012]

im worried about my 3rd child. he is 2 yrs and 2 months and has little to no speech. he is the first child i have had the luxury of staying at home with and now we him and a baby of 9 months at home.
we always talk to him and he has had a hearing test which was fine. they health visitor said she wouldnt worry until he is 3 but surely thats too late. should i push for help for him now? has any one else experience of this. all advice gratefully accepted.

[olivo]

You may be able to borrow the It Takes Two to Talk book form your SALT. I did a course based on the book and it was certainly a bit of a help. We could borrow the book just by leaving a deposit.

[lorisparkle]

interesting what you said about numbers and professionals not always recognising strengths. when I took ds1 to salt she would not believe he knew his colours as his speech was at one word level. I had to prove it. ds3 has great speech at the same age but no idea about colours!

[lingle]

absolutely, and it's great to always be aware of their strongest areas whilst working mostly on their weakest.

I used to tell the professionals about DS2's strengths and get the sympathetic look. Yet it was these areas of strength that pulled up the areas of weakness, IYSWIM. DS2 understood and used numbers meaningfully early on. I was told he wasn't really doing this because "he is still very concrete, and numbers are abstract". I found out - just today in fact apropos of something entirely different - that this stems from Piaget's theories of child development. Every fresh development turns into dogma at some point I guess... and that means it has started to outlive its sellby date. There's lots of that in this world..

I'll sign off now, but have fun improving your own techniques, and you'll get fellowship on the SN board.

[ReshapeWhileDashingThroTheSnow]

I'll come over to the SN needs board, Lingle. I've lurked but not really 'lived' there yet - a mixture of feeling a bit of a fraud until we know what DS2's problem really is, and probably a bit of denial in there too.

Thanks for recommending It Takes Two to Talk. I now have a pristine copy in my grubby hands, thanks to DH, who has access to a university library. Mine until someone else wants it, basically. I see DS2 is at 'Discoverer' (first) stage, despite being 2, which took me aback a bit. Yet he ticks a few boxes in higher stages too, like most children, NT or otherwise, I suspect.

[lorisparkle]

glad things are getting sorted with support. I found that most of the 'therapy' I did after it was explained and demonstrated by salt. one of the key things for us was to talk less! ds1 was struggling to process all the speech he heard and although he understood could not replicate it. instead I had to speak at a level just above his spoken word level when he was focused. of course every child is different and just a few simple changes can make a difference.

[lingle]

Good luck with the drop-in reshape. SALTs have specialisms just like doctors, so, for instance, one of my children was referred by the drop-in SALT to a specialist in ASD and receptive language problems, whereas the other has recently been referred to a specialist in stammering. Others specialise in problems getting the words out. I think a realistic goal for a drop-in clinic is to get the broad nature of the problem identified. I'm sure you already know that you must emphasise the problems following instructions, recognising own name, showing you things, etc, rather than what he can or cannot "say".

As to Einstein..... you'll be safe from Einstein stories on the special needs board Reshape - I suggest you make your way there. Yes, Einstein's intellect was obviously strongly "tilted" towards extreme pattern recognition, but he managed to shore up his weakness - the download slope of the "tilt" - so that he could end up excelling. People like him could be viewed as a subset of people with ASD-type "tilted" brain function, albeit a subset who never had any problems with following logical sequences. But any inference that a parent should ignore a child's problems because they might just be in the minority that self-resolve is stupid and needs squashing.

My DS2 had poor ability to recognise his own name until 3.6 - realising that was a terrifying moment. His receptive language was absolutely dreadful. Looking back, it's impossible to know what led to his sudden spurt of progress in his fourth year. Was it just his genetic code? Was it my therapeutic efforts, which became far more effective once a specialist SALT had pointed out that he was a classic visual learner with sensory imbalances? Was it the fact that he is blessed with an adored old brother who could adapt his behaviour to DS2's from an unusually early age? We'll never know. But the one thing I can be absolutely sure of is that my consciencious efforts, disguised as play, made him a less anxious, more secure child than he otherwise would have been - his family forged a link between him and the world, and I accepted that an hour working at his most basic level of deficit was worth ten hours getting him to seem more like other children. I can still remember a moment in the nursery playground where I was celebrating a tiny achievement with the nursery teacher - returning a ball she had rolled to him I think. In my peripheral vision, I caught sight of a concerned parent "clocking" that there was obviously "something wrong" if an event like this was a cause for celebration and I remember the lovely sense of knowing that I did not give a toss about being observed like that, because what we'd achieved was too important, and too much fun.

DS2, now 7, might just be a new "little Einstein", if his new-found ability at chess is anything to go by, and he is, in the official parent's evening language, "not a loner", though he isn't Mr Popularity either. Does that mean I regret putting my career on the back burner to prioritise his needs for three years? No. It is the most productive, creative, and fulfilling thing I have ever done in my entire life, and that would be the case even if his development path had not steered its way back towards the norm.

[ReshapeWhileDashingThroTheSnow]

This is such a helpful thread, thank you all! I'll have a look for that book, perhaps do a library search. My very helpful HV (the one who refered DS2 for SALT, which the bloody GP didn't do, or tell me I could self-refer...) just rang today and told me that there is a SALT drop-in at a local CC later this month, which I have to book to attend. Not sure what can be accomplished in that sort of setting, but I think I'll go along and ask some questions about what I can be doing while we're on the waiting list.

I'm already beginning to become cheesed off with the 'Well, Einstein was 7/5/9/12 before he could speak, and look at him' line, which well-meaning friends, GPs and relatives have thrown me once too often. And the negotiable age when Einstein first spoke aside, do we know that he was NT? Almost certainly he wasn't. Frankly, I'd rather my DS2 was happy in his future and able to cope with the normal demands of society, rather than a genius. (am also getting fed up with people equating ASD/AS with being a savant...)

[FrustratedSycamoreIsNesting]

Hi OP, see GP and push now for re-test of hearing, referral to S&L and referral to paediatrician. 3 years is IMO and IME far far too late, as these appointments can take months to come through. Please don't wait that long, you don't have to listen to the HV, you have to do what is best for your ds.

[lingle]

"A lot of people say that book is hard to find and rather expensive, Lingle.
I can't believe reading the book is as good as talking to a real live SLT who has individually assessed your own child. "

It was a key tool in keeping my family together and maintaining my sense of optimism. It meant that when, after hearing some hard truths from my SALT, I accepted that I was going to have to drill deeper, I already had very good core communication techniques. The only thing that was as good as the book was the special needs section on this forum. And it's the price of a pair of boots.

Yes, of course, you need a SLT as well but sadly, they don't waltz in and solve your problems, and shockingly few of them give structured advice on increasing your child's level of understanding. A whole generation seems to be trained mainly in speech production techniques, though hopefully that is changing.

[terilou87]

my son first started talking nursery (3yr4mo roughly) and has no problems with speech now, he does have adhd but i dont think it is linked, some children just take longer than others if your worried see your health visitor they should be able to refer you to a speech therepist.

[lingle]

"It's not all doom and gloom"

well exactly, there's a false dichotomy that many books promote between

"not austic = everything ok"
and
"autistic = nothing ok"

[MerryCouthyMows]

DS3 certainly isn't meeting the benchmark of 50 words by two, maybe 9 now if we are lucky, with about 4/5 signs so far.

And I've been working with him for 2.5 months now. 2.5 months ago, he had one word and only one sign.

[MerryCouthyMows]

My DS2 is on the Autistic spectrum, didn't have a single word until he was 3y7mo.

Now he's 9yo, talks all the time, albeit his sentence construction is, erm, unusual, and he still says things like "I done'd that" I stead of "I did that" (work in progress...).

He does have massive social skills issues, and developmentally is about 3 years behind socially.

His best friend is another child who is also autistic.

He is mostly happy to be in his own daydream world, yet he has (this year) caught up to 'average' academically.

Which isn't bad for a child in Y4 that started Reception not being able to name his colours.

It's not all doom and gloom, despite his genetic issues and autism!

[chocjunkie]

It Takes Two to Talk for £34 by winslow publications

that is where I bought mine and it is absolutely worth!

[lljkk]

Cheapest copy of that book on Ebay at the moment is £64 delivered.
Still cheaper than a few sessions of private SLT, admittedly.

[GinGirl]

Would definitely go via GP or see if you can self-refer to SALT. In our area they do a SAL drop-in so if you are concerned you can just turn up, I took DD2 and she was diagnosed with a developmental stammer, they gave me techniques, language to talk about it with her and her siblings and a phone follow-up 6 months later. It was a problem which resolved on it's own but I understand your concern.

In the county next door (we're on the border) it is a 16 week wait just for an initial assessment. A very good friend kept making excuses for her son (as did his nursery), for example, 'his motor skills are advanced for his age', she eventually got him assessed at 3 and he was diagnosed with an 12 month speech and 18 month understanding delay. The target of 50 words at age 2 is surely set for a reason, if you're child is not reaching those benchmarks, you should be eligible for help.

Best of luck!

[georgedawes]

I bought that book off ebay for about £25 and it was ace. It gives you loads of tips on things to do and not to do, so I'd definitely recommend it. It's something you can do whilst waiting on a referral (or if you're watching and waiting).

[lljkk]

A lot of people say that book is hard to find and rather expensive, Lingle.
I can't believe reading the book is as good as talking to a real live SLT who has individually assessed your own child.

[lingle]

The children who genuinely do have serious delays that self-resolve (talk at 3, become professor, etc) don't get off scott-free. They often struggle with social interaction, because it was problems reading social signals that delayed their speech in the first place

So if someone wants to make you think your child will speak at 3 and become a brain surgeon, let them, even believe them if you want to. But from the age of two don't let it delay you in taking action for one moment.

Unusually for a thread on this topic, no one has yet mentioned my all time favourite book It Takes Two to Talk, from the same website as the More than Words book. It's a great starting point because it refines your techniques as a parent - helps you to talk more as if you were a speech therapist, judging the way you talk to your child and eliminating your bad habits of trying to make them repeat words for the sake of it, etc. The only thing it doesn't touch on is problems a child has forming words. It is clear, doesn't make you panic, doesn't have milestone charts and can be lent to your extended family members without provoking tense discussions.

OP, what you were saying about him ignoring you. I really recommend the misleadingly titled dvd "teach me to listen and obey" from the www.teachmetotalk.com site. It's one of the vanishingly few high quality resources that actually help your child listen and understand. There's no point focussing on the words being produced (what's coming out) if things aren't going in before hand.

[georgedawes]

It's the same with walking. My DD did need help with walking which I had thought for months, but everyone told me I was over worrying, they knew someone who didn't walk til age 3 and then got up and ran a marathon (including my GP).

Trust your instincts and early intervention helps!

[hazeyjane]

yes, choc, we get the same with ds. Someones uncle/brother/lady down the road etc etc, who didn't walk/talk/sit until they were 3 then went on to be a brain surgeon/olympian etc. I know they think they arree being reassuring, but it is actually a pretty depressing thing to hear when your child is being tested for genetic conditions which mean life long learning disabilitiies. I also find people will say, 'oh xxxx didn't talk until he was 3' but actually they mean he didn't talk very much, as opposed to being completely non-verbal.

[dibsmum]

That's great it obviously happens a lot

[chocjunkie]

oh yes, all these little einsteins who did not utter a word until and then went on to become a brain surgeon

sorry dibs - did not mean to be sarcastic but you won't believe how often people came up with these stories when DD (autism) did not develop speech.

[dibsmum]

my mum tells the story of a girl I grew up with who didn't utter a word til 2.6, then woke up one morning speaking perfectly in sentences and continued to do so. She's now a high flyer in her 30's

[MerryCouthyMows]

As other people have come out and mentioned ASD, I will be honest with you and tell you that my DS3 is going to be assessed for Autism in May.

And both my DD and my DS2 that had very similar delays are also on the Autistic Spectrum.