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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Extremely concerned about 6 year old daughter's behaviour! Please help!

70 replies

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 22:21

My 6 year old is a bright and funny girl, who used to show a great deal of compassion for everyone.

Since turning 6 (August) however it's been a constant battle. She has been in trouble for hitting and pushing children in her class, including lunchtime detentions, there were 3 different incidents in one week, all the incidents she blamed on other children "annoying" her.

She has put her hands around my throat, hit me, kicked me, bitten me. She also bit a very close family friend a couple of weeks ago.

Her words are probably the worst tool she has in my opinion though, she is totally spiteful at the moment. After the biting incident I did get very upset at my friends house and she saw me crying although I attempted to hide it, later on that day she asked me if I "was crying to cry like the big stupid cry baby I am". She has told me that she wants me to die so she can go live with her Grandmother, when I asked her why it was so she could "get rid of me". I was busy using the PC over the weekend and explained to her that she couldn't use it as I was job hunting, she replied with "Why are you even bothering to look for a job, you're never going to get one. You are actually the stupidest person I have ever met." If she catches me looking at her she will say "What do you think you're looking at?" and if I shout her she will ask me what the hell I want. But 30 seconds after that she can throw her arms around me and I say "I love you Mama, you're my queen of hearts." She is worlds away from the little girl who used to cry if I even stubbed my toe at the fear I had really hurt myself!

The most alarming thing happened last night though, when I went up to bed I had noticed that she had smeared poo on the bathroom sink. I asked about it today very delicately at the fear she may have been embarrassed and she laughed in my face and said she did it on purpose and she put her fingers up her bum to see what was there, when I asked her why she did that she continued to laugh at me. I explained to her that this was unacceptable behaviour and that got the biggest laugh of all.

I am out of work at the moment and she is my only child so she has my undivided attention from home time until bedtime and is a very loved little girl.

Can anyone shed any light on any of this and do people feel it's a matter I should raise with her doctor? Many thanks x

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

neverquitesure · 19/12/2012 23:22

Another one hoping that you get to the bottom of what is troubling her.

JenaiMathis · 19/12/2012 23:22

What Vicar said.

defineme · 19/12/2012 23:24

If this behaviour has been going since at least reception age then I would seriously consider stopping viewing this as naughty behaviour and try to look for reasons why she could be behaving in this way.
Was there a point when her behaviour changed:did it coincide with anything else?
Or has her behaviour always had these elements?
I would make a record of her behaviour and of all the school stuff/photograph bite marks-you need to have evidence to get taken seriously.

Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 23:25

She didn't sleep through the night until she was 2 and a half. (Although no sleep problems now) She's always been fairly independent and stubborn but nothing out of the norm. Always beat myself up at that time of her life because she was at a nursery during weekdays as I was doing my degree and they noticed she always liked to do things her way and preferred to play alone (put that down to her being an only child) if the other children were all participating in an activity she would move away to do something on her own x

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Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 23:27

She didn't bite hard enough to cause any visible injury as we both had jumpers on but she did bite. x

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Corygal · 19/12/2012 23:27

You can mess about with shit and not be abused or ASD, too. A few people just do -it's called coprogenia - but it needs to be disencouraged. Apparently one thing that works is to ignore it and her when it happens, assuming there's nothing medical in the way to make that inappropriate.

Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 23:29

Defineme - she's always been abit up and down with no major incidents in her life. Sometimes she's fantastic and then it all goes a bit haywire. Sometimes friends/family don't believe that she could ever behave like that because when she's good she's an angel! But yeah, ups and downs but she had never been in the realm that we're in now x

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Greensleeves · 19/12/2012 23:30

As others have said, the poo-smearing isn't necessarily an indication of abuse, it can be associated with lots of different issues. So don't panic.

She sounds bright, angry and frustrated. Is she challenged at school? Does she have responsibilities and opportunities to earn praise and build her self-confidence?

Ca I ask a bit more about her relationship with her dad? Is your relationship with him amicable? Have you considered the break-up and its impact on her?

It is also possible there is a developmental issue - the school should be supporting you in getting her assessed by an educational psychologist, and there should be an IEP in place and regular meetings for you and the teacher/SENCo to discuss how best to handle things.

Chin up, you're a lovely very dedicated mum and you are doing your best to help your little girl. Whatever is going on with her, it can be sorted out and it is not your fault.

Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 23:31

Just remembered about the toilet thing, she went through a phase (after she was trained) during Reception where she would both wet and soil herself at school and at home. She also around that time used to defecate and urinate in the hallway when she was in trouble. Spoke to the doctor about my concerns at that time and he suggested a behaviour/reward system which did work at that age x

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Corygal · 19/12/2012 23:31

Oh well, no worries, the jumper saved the day.

Mind you, you're still landed with dealing with it. My cousin was a demon biter, he is fine now - luckily, really, as he is 30. But I know his parents had to wean him off it.

Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 23:34

She does have her IEP and we have meetings about that every few months (which used to cover her IBP too) She was behind on her reading but had extra help with that and is now where she's supposed to be target wise. Her Dad and I split when I was pregnant so she never experienced any of that. Our relationship is fine we are great friends and he's staying here on xmas eve so he can be included on xmas morning. Thank you x

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Greensleeves · 19/12/2012 23:35

Some children do use poo/wee as a way of expressing their powerful negative feelings. She sounds like a force to be reckoned with to me - a strong-willed, bright little girl who for whatever reason needs some help and attention. Which she is going to be getting. You are doing the right thing in looking for help for her.

Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 23:36

Yeah I can't imagine 30 year old biters are so easily forgiven! x

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Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 23:38

My sister did a placement with school nurses when she was starting her nursing placement and she mentioned the use of poo/wee in some kind of defiance disorder? I have no idea about any of these things. Force to be reckoned with ha I have been described the same way. x

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VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry · 19/12/2012 23:41

your info posted above has struck a chord with me, i am the parent of a grown up son with aspergers syndrome. Have you spoken to the school and do they have any concerns about her behaviour?

have you ever looked into autistic spectrum disorders or high functioning autism?

i am not armchair diagnosing btw - she needs a full assessment, you need to go to the gp and ask for a referral to a psychologist and they would request info from the school anyway. There really could be any number of reasons for her behaviour as i said earlier - there are lots of "coding" disorders that overlap - aspergers, high functioning autism, oppositional defiance disorder, pathalogical demand avoidance syndrome.....she needs assessing for your own sanity by the sound of it. She clearly needs some help and only when you know what you are dealing with can you do that.

Greensleeves · 19/12/2012 23:45

Well it makes sense that if a child is experiencing feelings of such towering strength they will find the most powerful way they can of expressing them, and there are serious limits to what a little child can actually do - so smearing poo is quite a popular choice

like the biting I suppose - it's something overtly extreme she can do to show how angry she is. IME this level of emotion can be frightening for a child (which is why toddlers often cry or cling after a major tantrum) so she needs you to be calm and reassuring (as well as firm and consistent) and give her lots of cuddles and affection when she isn't being a horror.

Sorry you are going through this Absmummy, it is so hard when you just don't know what's wrong. But you will get to the bottom of it x

Greensleeves · 19/12/2012 23:47

Vicar my 10yo has Aspergers too, and some of the OP struck a chord with me, especially the rage, the biting and the devastatingly articulate insults!

Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 19/12/2012 23:47

The part that gets me is, can there be any kind of disorder that means for sometimes weeks on end she can be an angel? and then just completely change into these difficult behaviours? Worried nobody will take me seriously because of the extreme changes in her behaviour. Won't lie Vicar, I am feeling very dragged down with it all, her sniping at me is constant and every one has a tolerance level for that don't they. She also won't dress herself, thought I'd mention that, she has the capability to because she does it at school after P.E but at home she wants me to do it (A teacher once suggested telling her to do it herself and refusing to help her but if I did that, as I explained to her old teacher, I'd never get her to school!) Her old teacher also mentioned a strong attachment to the fantasy world, apparently transferring fantasy into real life which I assumed was normal for a child her age? x

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defineme · 19/12/2012 23:48

Me too-aspergers ds1 here. But it could be anything...

doyouwantfrieswiththat · 19/12/2012 23:53

A friends daughter went through a behaviour change, (stroppy & unhappy) and turns out that she was being bothered by a boy in her year (inappropriate touching/kissing). Same age as your dd and too young to understand what was going on apart from that it made her unhappy.

When you ask her what's wrong, what does she say?

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry · 19/12/2012 23:57

Ds also confused fantasy with reality to embarrassing cringeworthy effect when i went storming into school, i wont elaborate as it just tooooo embarrassing - when he was diagnosed at 7 i found out that its part and parcel of the diagnosis, that he often got fantasy and fact muddled and was genuinely muddled.....he would dream something and actually believe it had happened.

once bitten! never again did i go storming into anything before triple checking!

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry · 20/12/2012 00:00

btw - DS is incredibly bright - he is doing a degree in computer science and taught himself to programme at the age of 11.

just get her assessed OP and then at least you know whatever you are dealing with. it could be something or nothing.
best of luck x

Greensleeves · 20/12/2012 00:00

Absmummy does she have any sensory issues, such as sensitivity to heat/light/noise/certain fabrics she can't stand? Does she have obsessively strong interests? Id she very particular about routines or rituals or specific ways of doing things? How does she handle changes and transitions?

I am definitely not trying to diagnose over the internet, but it may help to think about her behaviour in a wider context.

Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 20/12/2012 00:08

She doesn't like change, her bedtime is at 7, if that changes it throws her totally out of whack. She doesn't like my singing but I think that makes her fairly normal. Although she is VERY easily annoyed by the slightest thing x

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Original poster

AbsMummy06 · 20/12/2012 10:10

This morning was a battle, totally refusal to get dressed. Deliberately trying to annoy me by clacking her tongue (sounds silly but she knows it gets on my wick!) and banging, followed me around until she'd cracked me, when she saw I was getting upset she got in my face and sang "If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands" and laughed at me. I have no idea where that level of spite is coming from.

School informed me this morning that she has been placed back on her IBP for "unkind" behaviour (which she is instigating and not the result of her being bullied). The lady in charge of the SEAL side of things took me into her room (I was a blubbering wreck this morning!) and said that both her and my daughter's teacher are going to speak to her today and see me at home time.

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