Do other cultures teach their kids to say "sorry" to everything?

[trice]

I was having a battle with my son who had been foul to one of his classmates, I was trying to get him to say "sorry". He asked me why he should say sorry when he wasn't.

I wanted him to say sorry so that the other boys mum wouldn't think that I had no manners. The other boy couldn't have cared less.

I remember a french friend laughing at us brits for apologising all the time. Is it a cultural thing?

aw - how sweet.
Re Alexander the Great - my dh would love you -most people think he's Greek!

I have found a quote from a book entitled Unconditional Parenting that sums up my question: Do parents asume that forcing a child to say the words "will magically produce in them the feeling of being sorry, despite all evidence to the contrary? Or worse do they not even care whether the child really is sorry, because sincerity is irrelevant and all that matters is the act of uttering the appropriate words? Compulsory apologies mostly train children to say things thary don't mean--that is, to lie." Alfie Kohn

Not too sure how I feel about this. Yesterday afternoon I watched a mother demand an apology from her daughter (2 1/4) for so long that even I had forgotten what the transgression was by the time the child uttered the sentence. Her apology was anything but heart-felt.

As far as the initial question of culture, I always hate to generalise but Canadians are so famous for their 'apologies' that is is not unusual for us to say sorry when someone else steps on our toes on the tube or when we have to return food in a restaurant that is under-done... It is an automatic response in both my DH and I but I am not sure that being able to say the sentence effortlessly dozens of times a day makes us actually feel the emotion.

cadmum - that's fascinating and very thought provoking - I will have to read further on this.

ruty - only reason I knew that is because I saw a doc. about Alexander on TV a few years ago. It was really interesting mostly about the folklore passed down for centuries about Alexander. Sorry can't remember what channel it was on.

Koolcat: I found it \link{http://www.alfiekohn.org/UP/content/excerpt.asp\here}. His work is very thought provoking. I feel somewhat distressed that I didn't find out about his writing until recently. DS1 and DD1 will have been parented very differently than DS2 and DD2 as a result of his insightful books. I have often wondered why I do some of the things that I do and how my ultimate goal of rearing emotionally balanced children clashes with my immediate objective of having them do as we ask.

Thanks cadmum - It's very difficult finding an intellignet book on children, but this looks really good

I thought that babies learn a lot from us... I am French and learnt the sorry,thank you or the polite manners from looking at my parents. I never been slapt or shouted after but were always told were we got wrong when we did wrong then we would say sorry (without being shouted after!). I think it is so important to be able to teach our children to be polite and living in London, I do find the people very polite, kind and helpful (all in comparaison with Paris!). And as some of you said, I do find it amazing to queue in line waiting for bus or buying a ticket in London!!!

Cadmum and koolkat - it's a fab book. It's being (re) published in the Uk next friday (should have been last Tuesday).

thanks Cristina - ooooppppsss- I should have waited for the new edition then ! I bought the 1993 version.

ds has autism and doesn't understand most social language. Never says hello or goodbye and only sorry unless pressed, please thank you etc also only occasionaly. This has had a knock on effect on dd who is nearly 4 who also rarely uses these phrases. It's hard for us to stress her to say please and not ds1 as it would just confuse her. Actually she's quite a polite child in other ways apart from her speech and does pick up some of the social language from playgroup. Manners do have to be taught within a complete structure and I totally agree with the meaningless trite phrase of just saying it for the sake of it being totally useless. Probably pointless to insist it in a child under 3 as they are completely selfish then and couldn't care less if they'd bashed someone over the head. Like a lot of words they lose their value if overused.

Eulalia, as long as you use please and thank you yourselves that will come. DS1 also uses no social language unless instructed to each time, (ie say hello Sam, which is worthless imo). DS2 however has become a polite little chap, because he has the imitating behaviour learning styles that ds1 doesn't.