Do other cultures teach their kids to say "sorry" to everything?

[trice]

I was having a battle with my son who had been foul to one of his classmates, I was trying to get him to say "sorry". He asked me why he should say sorry when he wasn't.

I wanted him to say sorry so that the other boys mum wouldn't think that I had no manners. The other boy couldn't have cared less.

I remember a french friend laughing at us brits for apologising all the time. Is it a cultural thing?

Yes, and often not here either, these days. Tried "queueing" for a bus at a busy bus stop lately?? A personal hate of mine too, Mercy.

Most Londoners don't bother to queue for a bus these days and even if you have a stoller and loads of shopping many just push right in front any way.

Defiitely cultural.

Italians do not say sorry as much and they certainly do not say please as much as the British do. In fact I remember once writing a questionnaire with the usual 'please can you ...' wording on a lot of the questions and was sent back the Italian translation with the comment that they had removed a lot of the 'pleases' as it sounded really obsequious in Italian.

They do however use very polite modes of address to elderly people and say 'good evening' , 'good day' unless it is a really close friend/family. It always makes me cringe when people who don't speak Italian say 'ciao' in a really inappropriate situation.

So you see manners may be important but people differ as to what they believe is important.

I used to think (when first moved to the UK 10 y ago) British were soo polite. Now I prefer the ways of my country where people just say what they think. At least you know where you stand.

Nothing to do with "sorry", but have you noticed how many times you say "thank you" when you buy something in a shop! It is a habit I think, but I can't stop when I go on holiday and when abroad, people must think us totally crazy.

lazycow,

agree with you re Italians, but I'd go further, Italian children are, in the majority, extremely rude and spoilt, they never say please or thank you, and swear a lot (nursery age children), whenever I go abck I ma soo relieved my 2 are not growing up there, and everyone comments on how well behaved they are

I don't think it's fair to pick on any particular nationality, esp. the Italians. I find the Italians adore children and are very friendly and tactile with other people's chidren.

Yes, of course that level of attention will make some of them spoilt and obnoxious, but the parents are entirely to blame for that. I don't think it is a fair generalisation of all Italians though. I have Italian friends who have extremely polite and well-mannered kids.

I'm with you paolosgirl I feel manners are very important for children to understand.... there is no excuse for rudeness!.

I also believe that it is cultural and different things are impolite to different people e.g Americans smile frequently as a greeting but the French do not because if they don't know you they feel to smile is insincere.

In the Caribbean it is polite to greet a person even if you don't know them Goodmorning afternoon and evening even on the phone!

There are even differences between different parts of this country...when I moved from London just outside to Waltham Abbey when people alighted the bus they said Thank you to the driver!

Do people not say thank you to bus drivers in London then?

Definitely cultural. When I first came to the UK I felt obliged to say sorry/please/thank you all the time because you brits do it. It felt very strange and over the top. I much preferred the direct Dutch way, where you know what people really mean. Now, after 11 years here, I am used to it and have grown to like it and think that Dutch people are bordering on being rude! However, there are polite ways of asking things in Dutch without the word please, just as in italian.

I always say thankyou to bus drivers, shop assistants, toilet attendants, bar staff, waiting staff, hair dressers, doctor, dentist, midwife......

I thank everyone who has improved my day / life/ appearance in any way whatsoever!

I say thank you to bus drivers too?

If he/she can see me I will say it as I get off, or if the bus is still stationary and I walk past I nod and smile.

I hate it when people do not say thank you when you hold a door open for them.

So many toddlers I know just snatch things out of your hand when you offer them something but you have to let them off as they are learning. I will always stop them and ask them if they have forgotten the magic word and then they usualluy say it so most do know they just need reminding.

I also remember living in a rough part of London and people giving me strange looks as I said "hello" whilst walking past. I do this all the time especially to older people, "good morning etc"

Not sure if it is cultural or just the way I have been brought up.

My mum is very friendly and chatty so speaks any chance she can get and obviously passed it onto us

Another thing my mum would tell us to do before going to the shops was knock on the doors of the elderly people on our road and ask if they wanted anything from the shops. This is nice to do and I have done it a few times since moving to my new area. Its nice for elderly people who live alone to know they have someone thinking about them and willing to help.

Green, the buses I used in London were bigger you never pass the driver on the way off so you didn't say anything unless you knew them... so saying thank you was unusual especially(sp?) for teenagers!!

colditz - lol - I remember thanking a nurse after a smear test (as one does !) and she said "Gosh, it's not often people thank me after a smear !"

I not only thanked my wonderful, wonderful mw for delivering my beautiful son safely, but the follwong week sent DH round with a big bunch of flowers and choccies for her and all her staff !

Lovely elderly lady stopped me in the supermarket on Monday to say how delighted she was to overhear ds saying 'please' - she said he was amazingly well-mannered compared to the kids she normally sees. He only said one 'please' (... can I have a pear, mummy') but she was thrilled!

I do think manners are important - in terms of acknowledging that other people have needs and it is wrong to upset or hurt them. Other nationalities express respect in different ways, I guess. A German aquaintance once asked me whether I'd ever counted the number of times people say 'thank you' in shop - both the assistant and the buyer. Tried it the next time I was buying something and actually counted eight between us!

Bus queues in London a bug bear of mine - when I first lived there in 1987 the only people who didn't queue were tourists, who were often told off by locals. Now it's just a free for all, sadly.

But people are still helpful - when I accompanied a lady in a wheelchair on a bus journey people kept springing to her aid. One man who had blocked the stop with his van (so the driver couldn't lower the ramp) refused to move at first, then was shamed into moving and everyone cheered!

Haven't read the whole thread so sorry it this has been posted already.
Yes it is cultural. I'm French and I can't get used to people apologising before they've done anything wrong !

Well if they don't, perhaps they should!

Sophable, I think it's still valid for a small child to be obliged to say 'sorry' even if they are insincere. It serves the purpose of underlining very clearly to them that they have made a transgression. They may not be genuinely sorry, but they are clear on the fact that they have done something wrong; which ultimately and subtley over time might serve to influence their behaviour

But how do you deal with a toddler who says 'sorry' to you when he hasn't done anything wrong? Got really weird with ds when I started trying to teach him about 'sorry' as whenever I said it to him (as in, sorry, mummy bumped your foot, or whatever) he thought I was telling him to say it. Seems to have worked it out now but still happens occasionally.

I lived in Germany for a while and found that Germans can be quite abrupt, but it is only their way, so I wasn't offended. However, they used to think me very odd for holding doors open when going into a shop, or for standing in a queue. I soon got used to pushing though, because they push in in such an obvious way it is almost funny, particularly in supermarkets where they push in front with a huge trolley, when I only have one item. I used to say, I am English and in England we queue! It used to surprise them so much that they went behind me.

The children are rude too (to an English person) and they all smoke - even in school. Wow! In the playground, or walking out of school in the evening (this was a few years ago - I wonder if it has changed).

To get back to kids and saying sorry. I always found that if I said sorry to them for things, that they would automatically learn to say sorry. I don't agree with forcing children to use words they don't understand. If you apologise on their behalf, they soon learn that they should do it for themselves.

On the topic of too much sorrying... My ds tends to say sorry too quickly (he's 10) - I'm trying to wean him off it, maybe I've given him too much of my guilt complex! As soon as I exclaim crossly he says sorry, even if he's nowhere near me - and usually it's because I've spilt the milk, or something...

However, I hope I have brought him up to say please, thank you and sorry at the RIGHT times too! :)