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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

I have had enough of my 2yr old ds behaviour - this is beyond tantrums

34 replies

colette · 23/03/2006 12:48

This is the 2nd day running that ds has thrown an enormous tantrum and I have had to carry him home kicking and screaming. We have just been to the library and because I said we could not go out the fire exit door he started shouting and screaming. I calmly spoke to him and even sat him on the floor gently but he just got worse so I said we will have to go becuse you are being very naughty. He continued this all the way home and kicked and shouted , he is now sitting in the naughty spot and seems to have calmed down
He is so stubborn and stroppy that I really don't know what to do with him. I give him lots of praise when he does behave but his behaviour has been so bad this week that I would pay someone to sort him out if I could as I feel I am getting it all wrong......
It does not sound unusual for his age I know but he totally loses it over nothing lately. Yesterday in the park another boy was waiting for a turn and ds would not give him a go on the rocker type thing so after 5 mins I explained that he had had his turn and he threw such a big screaming wobbly , that we had to leave . DD had tantrums but was not on as short a fuse as this , communicated better and they were not every few hours.
I use the time out method when we are out but I have to physically hold him sitting and he is kicking and sometimes even spitting!! help ..

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Original poster

colette · 23/03/2006 13:04

Help he is still at it

OP posts:

NannyL · 23/03/2006 13:06

i know its hard but it IS all completely normal!

FrannyandZooey · 23/03/2006 13:10

Don't hold him if he is kicking and screaming, it will make it much worse I would think. At 2 I think he is too young for time out. Actually I am not a fan of time out full stop but know you sometimes feel you have to do something! Distraction and empathising work better at this age in most situations I think. Try to put yourself in his shoes and see how frustrating and difficult the world can be. I would try to comfort him when he is upset or angry about something - he is not being naughty, just reacting to the world - all he is capable of doing until he grows up a bit.

throckenholt · 23/03/2006 13:13

you need to try and answer him in a way that makes sense -

eg - not - no we can't go through that door, but something like - I would love to go through the door too, shall we see if it is open ? Oh - it's locked - what a shame. Which other door should we try now ?

Try and let him feel he has some control over the situation.

with the rocker thing - something like - look there is another little boy who wants to play too - you have another minute and then you can swap over. What else would you like to play on next ?

Tantrums are much easier to deal with if you can head them off before they start

oliveoil · 23/03/2006 13:16

I used to walk into the kitchen loudly wondering to myself what I could get to eat from the cupboard. I usually found that dd1 would then follow me in sheepishly and we would have a cuddle and a snack.

She didn't have a lot of tantrums tbh but I think dd2 will, she is feisty now at 18 months.

I am not sure TO works at such a young age, maybe from 4 yrs onwards, not sure.

In the park maybe say in a really excited voice 'What about the slide!!!!!!!!' to see if it will distract him. You will appear a loony but we all do with toddlers imo at times. I have pointed out a 'Balloon!!!!!!' in a really loud voice in Tesco's once.

frogs · 23/03/2006 13:20

Sounds normal, I'm afraid. Dd2 can be like this too (see Pruni's recent thread on The Worst Day with your Two Year old). And no, my older two didn't do it either, so I'm discovering the hard way what all the fuss is about the Terrible Twos.

Time out doesn't really work for us -- she gets into such a state she can't get herself out again. Things that do help include distraction (you need to ham it up as much as you can); never letting them get hungry and always having a couple of food options in your bag; early nights and plenty of sleep; very regular routines; getting down to the child's level and trying to make them explain what's wrong. Dd2 is only just starting to get better now as her language improves and she can (sometimes) manage to tell us what she wants.

Bozza · 23/03/2006 13:22

I disagree with other posters and find that time out does work at this age. And colette posted herself that he was calmng down. I think you really just have to continue to either ignore (if possible) or time out. You need to show him that this behaviour is not working. by all means try to head off tantrums as much as possible but if you fail continue as you are doing. Is there any pattern to when they occur - ie when DS is tired or hungry or thirsty?

Bozza · 23/03/2006 13:24

BTW obviously agree that time out works better with some children than others. But definitely works with DD.

Original poster

colette · 23/03/2006 13:25

Thanks for your replies - in the park I made a big deal out of the slide he could go on but he still threw a wobbly . I do try and distract but he is so stubborn , even when he was a few months old he was quite angry .
Your comments about t.o seem to make sense as it is no t working , except to give me a bit of t.o iykwim.

OP posts:

Miaou · 23/03/2006 13:25

Toddler tantrums are IME a result of frustration at an inability to communicate, and/or lack of control over their environment (lack of choices). It is normal, but there are strategies you can use to cope with it collette - and please forgive me if you know all these/have tried them to no avail:

Give him choices where possible - eg with the rocker thing - try asking him "which toy would you like to choose now?" - turn a negative (anything with not, can't mustn't etc - It's not your turn any more, you mustn't stop the other boy having a go, you can't play on it forever) into a positive - "lets countdown until it's time to get off, then pretend we're a rocket zooming onto the swings - 10, 9, 8" etc.

Distraction. "ooooh look at the big aeroplane!" If he goes for it, build on it - "where might they be going? on holiday? Do you think they're going to play in the sea?" Doesn't often work but can avoid a minor strop.

Ignore. REALLY hard when you are out I know. But when he threw a tantrum because he couldn't go out of the fire exit, he got your 100% attention whilst you tried to calm him down. Personally, I would kneel in front of him, look at him in the eye, say "we are not allowed out of that door. If you stop this noise you can choose which other door we go out of (presuming there are others)/you can open the proper door to go out. If you don't stop, then we will leave now". After which, don't get into any arguments and don't speak to him any further. If necessary, pick him up and leave, don't respond even if he hits and kicks you.

Forget it happened once it is over. As soon as he stops, reward him with your attention and smiles, plenty of eye contact and chat (if he wants to). If he had a tantrum on the way to somewhere (eg park, library), then carry on going there. Don't punish him for having a tantrum once it is over.

My strategies (in summary): Ignore, Distract, Present Choices, Move On.

And repeat the mumsnet mantra - "it's just a phase, it's just a phase, it's just a phase...."

Miaou · 23/03/2006 13:26

everyone else beat me to it...

oliveoil · 23/03/2006 13:29

Never ask a question that they can give 'no' as an answer to.

Dh always says 'do you want to go for a bath now?', cue 10 mins of no no no no no no no no, when if he had said, 'right, lets go for a bath, who shall I take up first you or dd2?'

Works on alllllll things imo. Gives them a choice in what is happening.

Irritating when you are tired, granted.

frogs · 23/03/2006 13:29

Oh yes, the other tactic that sometimes works is to give a choice between two insignificant options, thus distracting their attention while you get them to do the important bit. Eg. 'Oooh, now you can choose, would you like the blue spoon or the red spoon' while you steer round the hairy 'Now it's time to sit in your chair' moment. Or 'Who's going to put the bubbles in the bath?' while you swiftly strip them off.

oliveoil · 23/03/2006 13:32

agree

it's all in the delivery

Mass over enthusiasm and falseness!

frogs · 23/03/2006 13:34

Oo is right. Think Joyce Grenfell on uppers and you won't go far wrong.

Original poster

colette · 23/03/2006 13:38

Frogs your dd sound very similar- how old is she?I am glad you are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel . Dh wonders why I don't want another baby this is why !!
I have to keep to a routine with ds , comminicating their needs helps so much Ds thinks action is better than words. dd was much better at talking at an earlier age and also he is so big and heavy to carry down the road kicking and screaming.
Bozza I am not sure about t.o lately but do not know what else to do, he did calm down a bit but once he had energy back carried on. I have now manged to get him to his cot and i think he is asleep. I think tiredness contributed to it.

My friend took her little boy to a bowen tecnique therapist and said it hhhhelped his moods and eczema - I am considering it. Dh thinks it is a load of bs

OP posts:

Original poster

colette · 23/03/2006 13:46

Thanks everyone, I know the theory but he is pretty impossible to distract sometimes and as he goes from o-60 in a matter of secounds he will not listen as he can't hear me because he is screaming .
Saying that I do usually have an apple in my bag as a bribe but I did not today.

OP posts:

welshmum · 23/03/2006 13:47

I used to find that really lowering my voice helped, dd used to have to calm down a bit to hear what I was saying - especially if combined with rummaging around in my bag as if looking for something special.

throckenholt · 23/03/2006 13:56

my ds is very hard to distract too. You have to act quickly before they get into the tantrum - once they are in one they can't control it at that age - and I think it frightens them. Get down to his level - get eye contact, and do as advised in the rest of the thread. If the distraction doesn't work - say what you are going to do (again at his level) and then do it and ignore any reaction from him.

The hardest bit is staying calm yourself !

Bozza · 23/03/2006 13:59

Well if it is not working don't use it. I find that if DD is tired and stropping she calms down with a little while on the step.

Hopefully it will be a short lived phase...

Original poster

colette · 23/03/2006 14:01

Welshmum I must be feeling a bit better as I laghed at the rummaging around in your bag, I will try that .
Throckenholt , yes heading it off is the best thing but almost impossible with ds as he is so quick to lose it. I threatened to take him home and had to carry him all the way, wish I had had the pushchair

OP posts:

katyp · 23/03/2006 14:03

Colette, if it's any consolation, I think some children will not respond to the tactics normally recommended for tantrums such as distraction, time out, etc. so it's not that you are not doing the right thing but that it's down to their personality. My dd and ds2 are very similar and did/do respond to these things but ds1 was a nightmare. At one stage I felt he was having time out at least once a day and there was no improvement even though I was always consistent, never gave in, etc. He could scream for hours. The only think I can say is to keep trying but don't get disheartened if it takes literally months to work. He is 4 and a half now and has improved loads in the last year (sorry if the length of time it has taken depresses you!) He is so much easier to manage than a year ago (horrible flashback of having to phone dh to meet us in town as I couldn't get ds1 home as he was tantrumming, in full view of a crowded town centre on market day....)

Original poster

colette · 23/03/2006 14:10

Thanks katyp
that is really interesting as I feel that almost everyhing I learnt with dd does not work. Some days he is in time out every hour!! I just don't have a good enough plan b).
I will check later as I am going to try and do some meditation before getting dd from school . I am still abit stressed

OP posts:

katyp · 23/03/2006 16:50

I have to say Collette that it is a relief that (so far) ds2 is far easier to distract out of a tantrum - I was dreading going through it all again. But it is early days yet (just turned 2....)

getbakainyourjimjams · 23/03/2006 17:22

Time out every hour is too much to be effective.

With ds1 I use a simpler version of time out for very bad behaviour. (he wouldn't stay on the step and doesn't have the language to understand it anyway). I put him outside the room for 10-20 seconds and hold the door shut. When he comes back in I say "no xxx" and leave it at that. That did work when he was little (not so well now). He had it today because he kept repeatedly pinching my mum, but before that it hasn;t been used for quite some time.

I only started using time out with ds2 once his language was good enough to be able to have a conversation about the bad behaviour- 3ish I think.

With ds2 I always use a lot of "choices". If he's having a tantrum because he can't have a cake for example I say "banana or nothing" or "banana or apple" - the point being I use one thing he wants (banana) and pair it with something I know he doesn't want. if he carries on about it then I just say "no cake isn't an opiton its banana or apple". if he carries on I say "oh ok nothing then" and walk off (then he'll squeak "I want a banana").

I also wouldn't hold down- being held incenses ds1 beyond belief. If its something where he;s not going to clam down and he's spoiling it for others then I would just pick up and leave, or take out of the room and give a choice "if you're quiet we can go back in, if not we'll go home".

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