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DD overeating, don't know what to do

70 replies

andruafer · 25/09/2012 19:34

Sorry this is long. I'm frustrated and would really appreciate it if you bore with me and gave me some advice. Sad

Have namechanged for this, becaue, well...I feel guilty even saying it.

My little DD is 5, lovely, bright, with a beautiful kind heart and so trusting and sweet, but she is obsessed with food. She isnt interested in healthy food,( apart from fruit) and while I dont necessarily think thats unusual for a 5yo, I am concerned with the qauntity she can put away and her behaviour around food. She isnt overweight as such, but she is defintely 'thicker' than her friends for want of a better word, and I am 100 per cent sure that the only reason she isn't fat is because I have (some) control over her eating.

Once a week or so DD will have a little friend over for tea. On those nights we will have pizza and chips, nuggets, fishfingers or whatever ( sometimes homemade, sometimes not). It's a treat, and they will have ice cream or some chocolates afterwards. We usually tend to have another night like this at the weekend as a family. DD has no problems eating at these times and will eat with gusto. In fact, she will always always without fail ask for more. I am often amazed where she puts it and 9 times out of 10 will refuse her more.
Its difficult to just give dd a little treat if a chocolate or a packet of buttons etc, because as soon as she is finished, the inevitable whining for more will start. The treat may have been a reward for getting a certifcate at school or whatever, but this sentiment often gets lost because when she whines at me for more, I end up cross with her.
When she does have a friend over, and they have their treats, DD comes back to me repeatedly for more. Her friends get fuller way before she does and sometimes roll their eyes at how often she will interrupt play to come to ask for more treats. She isn't embarrassed when her friends get exasperated at her. I try not to tell her off in front of them, but the whining can be hard to listen to and I do end up telling her off sometimes when they are there. She doesnt seem fazed and will carry on asking.

Take today for example, DD had her little friend over for a play date. After a pizza tea, they had a little packet of harribo. She asked for a few more jellies and I did let her this time as the harribo packets were mini ones. The friends mum came to collect her child and I made a cuppa with a biscuit for us while the kids played. DD came into the room literally every 2 mintues asking for one of the biscuits. My friend gave her one (!) and still this did not satisfy dd. She came back again and again, hovering by the door and ignoring her friend who wanted to play. This is par for the course - if dd is on a play date, either at our house or her friends, she spends most of it hovering around the kitchen.
DD has taken food from my plate before now, ie, with a cake or something sweet, she had eaten hers quickly and then tried to snatch mine. She would never do this with a regular healthy meal, and in fact, she got in so much trouble for doing it that time, she hasn't repeated it since. She does however have a habit of hovering her hand over the plate of something she wants. She won't actually take it because she knows she would get in trouble, but she wont remove her hand from over the plate until you tell her off. She will ignore you until you raise your voice.
I am also embarrassed to say that she is always the last kid to leave the table at a birthday party. She will just sit there ( even at her own party) munching away and oblivious to the fun going on around her. I always have to remove the food in the end and can feel the other parents looking at dd in wonderment. If we are on holiday with my family and my mum is handing out treats to the grandkids, dd will go back for more and more. Her little cousin once called her greedy and I told him off, but she wasn't fazed and carried onj regardless. I hate the thought of my precious child being labelled like this, but it is greed. I hate that word, but she is a greedy child. Sad

I'll now give you another glimpse of what a regular day is like in our house. ( as opposed to a treat night) DD causes a scene at the table most nights because she doesn't like what I serve. When I say 'scene', she isnt a shouty child or disruptive child, but is a fantastic whiner and will take 30-40 minutes to eat a few mouthfuls, and constantly ( and I mean constantly) negotiate every single mouthful that she has to eat.
To give you an example, mealtimes usually sound like this: can I stop now? how much more of this do I have to eat? if I eat this carrot can I have a yoghurt? can I have another drink cos I dont like this dinner and the drink helps to take the taste away? can I stop? mum can I stop now?....you get the jist!.....Frustrating just isnt the word, and so I get hugely wound up by this and become very shouty because you can't have a conversation about anything else. I can't talk to my DP about his day, or dd about hers, because the meal revolves around how much dd can get away with eating and she wants you to watch how many mouthfuls she eats so that she can eat her 'quota' and then stop. She just hates most of what I put in front of her, wont try new things and even something like a sunday roast will go untouched apart from the yorkshire and roasties. ( she is obsessed with carby foods - breads, chips etc)

So what do I do? How do I get her to A) have a more positive view of regular healthy foods like chicken dinners, fish pies, soups, pasta etc? How do I stop the meal times being so stressful? Every day I promise myself I am not going to engage and simply let her eat it or go hungry - but she sucks you in! Its so hard! More importantly ( and this really is my main concern) How do I get my dd to stop obessing over sugary crappy food? To know when to stop? To stop the incessant begging, regardless of where we are and who sees her?

One thing I know for sure is that once I no longer have control over my dd's eating, she will get fat and I am so worried for her. Sad

OP posts:
AnxiousElephant · 25/09/2012 22:08

Have you checked for worms?

AnxiousElephant · 25/09/2012 22:08

How much does she drink?

Beamur · 25/09/2012 22:09

I agree with the idea of having fewer treat type foods in the house - if she whines, but you can simply say 'there is no chocolate' that has got to be easier for you. I'm fairly relaxed about having sweets/biscuits in the house, but my DD doesn't have quite the same connection with these things and will accept no as an answer - but one friend of mine (who is herself very slim and healthy!) simply never has sweets in the house and only has biscuits if other people are coming round - as a family they simply do not eat them.

AnxiousElephant · 25/09/2012 22:19

I would go with protein such as egg/bacon and toast at breakfast to fill her with slow release carbohydrates and protein is harder to digest, feeling fuller.
I assume she has fruit at snack?
Lunch for a five year old = 2 slices of bread sandwich/ filling
(meat/egg/cheese) No jam. (short acting sugar) 2 lots of fruit, yoghurt, crisps are actually not as bad as cakes/ biscuits and stops the sugar rushing. If biscuit then plane digestives.
Snack before tea 330pm (blood sugar lows) crumpet, pancake, fruit, breadsticks, malt loaf and no treats.
Evening meal - meat, 3 portions of veg including potato, pasta dish (add sweetcorn/ peas), jacket potato with filling, beans, cheese, tuna mayo etc and salad.

fruit if still hungry and then a small cake/ biscuit or crisps.
If still hungry then a slice of toast/ cereal only.

wannabedomesticgoddess · 25/09/2012 22:19

Maybe just my opinion here but what you have written that you give her for lunch really doesnt sound much.

Children are constantly growing. And school makes kids hungry. Are you sure your portion sizes are enough? I would imagine that constantly not getting enough would make you binge at things like parties where theres less of a limit.

I do think all the other issues mentioned are valid. But maybe sometimes she is just hungry.

andruafer · 25/09/2012 22:21

I haven;t checked for works - how do I do this/

Also, I have thought about the Prada Willis syndrome briefly....but isn't this an obssession with all food - as in any food? because my dd only obsesses over sugar. I always thought PW syndrome was also accompanied by learning difficulties?...oh god........ ,

Sad
OP posts:
AnxiousElephant · 25/09/2012 22:25

Worms - look for white bits around the anus and signs of worm like casts in stools when she goes.
I think it is the small lunch that is making her ravenous after school. Up her healthy lunch.
Oh and forgot that drinks of juice can foster the love of sugar/ sweet. Low sugar is actually worse because the aspartame they replace sugar with is addictive and found in adult energy drinks plus it is sweet thus developing a sweet tooth. Diluted pure fruit juice 1-2 / 10 water is best to stop tooth rot and excessive drinking (it also stretches the stomach when they constantly drink)

amigababy · 25/09/2012 22:27

Moving up to the present, my own dd is a teenager now (and eats typical teenage rubbish, but that's another story - she eats like a horse and is in the 5% of people who are naturally underweight - has been all her life)
When she was little, we had "growing food" and non-growing food; where growing food is the food that makes you big and strong; meat, fish, veg, eggs etc, what us adults would call healthy food. This was to try not having the good v bad connotations.
Are there activities she absolutely loves? I rode horses, and was completely absorbed by them - I was "in the moment" with that activity and therefore not thinking about food. Of course that's ok for the 30-60 minutes once a week that it happens, but now I do yoga, which is calming and easier to do.
Of course, she is capable of going without - because she does (and I did) at school. From 8.30-12.30 approx and 1.00 till 4pm, she can and will only eat what is given at lunch time, and won't ask the teacher for extra because school isn't a place to eat snacks. So she does have the ability to occupy herself/be occupied by the outside circumstances. It's just once she gets home, the place associated with comfort and nourishment, that the desire to eat and "stock up" kicks in again, till the next school morning.
Rather than be told she simply can't have something, even if the reason is that it isn't in the house, some kind of distraction is needed. Reading isn't great as you can read and eat - how about a Wii - I'm trying to think of other distractions suitable for a 5 yo. Not meaning again that she is bored, just that an alternative is needed for that moment where food is being craved, so she can a) move on from it, and b) as she gets older, realise that she has the ability to control the feelings she has, rather than letting the feelings control her (and then eating something)
I guess this is something a lot of people do naturally and its not even an issue for them, but for others it's a skill to be learned, so therefore it needs practising and reinforcing.

andruafer · 25/09/2012 22:29

worms, sorry, not works!

Drink? She has one in the morning, water avail all day at school - not sure how much she access this though? She also has a carton of milk at snack and fruit sduch as an apple or orange slices ( she she tells me!)

Thats interesting what you say about her lunch wannabe - so you think I should give her more? I hadn't thought of it like that...will include another sandwich maybe and some more fruit?

Anxious- great suggestions, thanks so much ( and to all of you). This is inspiring me to really get a hold of this for dd's sake ( and my own - could do with losing a few pounds and perhaps changing my own attitude to food, esp with regards to using it as as reward. What can I do to change her mindset that a treat is only a treat if its edible? Even my mum laughs at how dd sees this, and when posting her bday presents, always includes a few choolate bars. To DD, a magazine with stickers just isnt as satisfying as something sweet.

OP posts:
AnxiousElephant · 25/09/2012 22:40

Tell her you will save the pennies she would have had on sweets and take her somewhere nice on her own on the weekend. Ask your mum to co-operate with not sending or giving sweets as treats for her health.
I would have the same issue with my dds if I let them have sweets when they ask! They taste good so of course they want more, and more and more! The key is to stay strong and offer her a healthier alternative. We have fruities as substitute sweets and they are rationed too, so they see them as sweets. I say to her if she complains of hunger that 'if you are truely hungry you will eat what I offer or have nothing!'

AnxiousElephant · 25/09/2012 22:43

we also have a junk day on the weekend Smile

andruafer · 25/09/2012 22:43

aimgababy - growing and non-growing foos, thats a fab idea and will try that with dd. Another poster suggested changing the name from healthy to healthy for your heart and muscles etc, so I need to use these words to help her break the negative association she has with the word 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' ( in fact, when she discovers she is eating something unhealthy, like white bread or chips, she giggles like mad, as though she is getting away with something naughty....I just havent copped on to how her mind has been processing all this stuffSad)

anxious - with drinks, i always make her drink water only with meals, as I used to let her have juice, but she was srinking gallons of it to wash down/disguise her disgust at the food she was eating. It drove me mad, and she would be full of drink within a minute, so wouldnt eat anyway. Now that I've switched to water, she doesnt drink much of that either. Do you think i should go back to letting her have (diluted fruit) juice with meals? other than this, I have little control over how much she drinks with CM or at school.

OP posts:
wannabedomesticgoddess · 25/09/2012 22:46

Yes, just a bit more of what you give her. My DD is 3.9 and she eats 2 slices of bread with filling, an apple cut up, some grapes and two petit filous for lunch. And even then shes still hungry.

What are your DDs interests? Can you link the non food treats to them?

simpson · 25/09/2012 22:53

I have a DD like this too, she is 4 and truly obsessed with food.

She was starting to look a bit chubby tbh but after being on holiday near the beach in the summer she got loads of exercise (more than normal) and has lost weight...

She will moan, whine whine for food all day if I let her...

Tbh I have now got tough and just give her snacks at set times and nothing else.

Distraction works well too, as well as just telling hervwe have run out of xyz.

I do think DD's obsession with food (she is very picky about certain foods being in the "right" place on the plate) is due to her having severe food intolerances and she is trying to exert some control back iyswim.

simpson · 25/09/2012 22:53

Sorry for typos , bloody iPad!!

andruafer · 25/09/2012 22:57

Also, my dd has unlimited 'healthy' snacks with CM after school, ie breadsticks, fruit, yoghurt and malt.banana bread. I dont agree that they should be unlimited, but I've already explained hat my CM has a different viewpoint than me on this issue. Knowing my dd, she will eat lots of the banana bread every day....which will also be contributing to my woes at dinner time.

*I will increase her lunch.....good idea,
*Get rid of treats from the house(she doesn't have them every day btw, and I certainly don't let her have them whenever she wants, prob twice a week, three times max)
*I will ( and I think this is the most important thing really) ...do some work to change the mindset of my dd with regards to food, starting with the use of my own language when referring to food, ie, healthy/unhealthy, 'treats as food etc. I need to break this mindset that she has, and in turn the obsession.
*Make her leave the table if she doesn't want to eat at dinner time ( is this right?) offer nothing else until breakfast
*add more veg to evening meals, less carbs
*dont engage in discussion about likes/dislikes at mealtime. Its not her choice.

Have I missed anything?

Thanks so much for all your support.

OP posts:
QuintessentialShadows · 25/09/2012 23:02

Half a sandwich and a few berries and a youghurt does seem very little for lunch.
I would add another half sandwich.

I should add that my friends dd would always linger at the table and prefer to sit and snack when the other children had left the table. My friend did not care. She said they enjoyed it, and she did not want to create an issue. If they preferred to stay at the table, and pick on food, then so be it. Both her girls got into this habit. They are not massively slim, but they are not chubby either. They are happy healthy girls who as it happens prefer adult company, and associates mum having visitors and serving coffee and biscuits as something NICE and RELAXING, that they prefer to do than play with other children.

It is the norm now. My friend hosts get togethers for a group of us, her dds remain at the table, the other children go and play with the toys and games on offer, and these girls are happy to remain with the adults, chat and eat.

They are 10 and 7 now, and it has become the norm! Sometimes the other kids join us for a prolonged chat session, too! (We are three friends from primary school, with two children each, all of similar ages, between 7 and 10)

TalkinPeace2 · 25/09/2012 23:06

URGENT
URGENT
Have her tested for Prader Willi Syndrome
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prader%E2%80%93Willi_syndrome
she may have it mildly - so not show all the physical characteristics
but the permanently ravenous bit is SO distinctive....

wannabedomesticgoddess · 25/09/2012 23:09

All your ideas sound great.

The only thing is, I dont think she needs to leave the table. I think she should stay at the table and be involved in the conversation. If she continues to whine etc ignore that but ask her about her day, talk to DP etc. If shes told to leave the table thats still creating an issue around food iyswim.

andruafer · 25/09/2012 23:10

Quint...there is always the chance that perhaps I have been quick to dismiss dd from the table when she just wants to stay and chat with me and her friends mum? not sure though as dd really only spends the time trying to get at the biscuits when she has already had her share! She does like adult company, thats for sure. She is a bright and friendly little thing, so warm and loving. I just want to get a hold of this issue with food before it becomes, well..an issue

OP posts:
Feckbox · 25/09/2012 23:12

i think you sound really sensible and kind but I think your CM is nuts thinking it's ok for kids to eat unlimited banana bread and breadsticks between school and teatime.

My three kids who are mostly ok eaters now(they are older than your dd- have all had their fussy phases ) would not eat their evening meal if snacks like that were available after school

andruafer · 25/09/2012 23:12

Talkin peace Shock

OP posts:
Feckbox · 25/09/2012 23:13

and I think you should stick to water

SizzleSazz · 25/09/2012 23:18

I would say when you remove an uneaten dinner, then cover it and put it to one side. If she is then 'hungry' between tea and bed you can offer to reheat it for her (or for her to have the rest cold). This has always worked with my 2 as they know there will be nothing else until it is eaten (or a good enough attempt).

fattybum · 25/09/2012 23:18

Its very unlikely to be prada wiilli syndrome. I know two people with it (one child, one adult) and they will eat anything, ie find crumbs on the floor and eat them, all healthy food. The fact she is fussy with some food tells me she doesn't have it, plus you really can tell there is something different about these people.

I had (have) similar issues with my 6 year old ds, and the book helping without harming by Ellyn satter really helped us, I really recommend it.