Ds won't eat, and is making himself quite ill. Need tactics and ideas. He's 8.

[Readyisknitting]

Ds is 8. We have seen a pediatrician, and his iron levels came back as a reading of 5, should be 25. We are also trying to access help through CAMHS,

He won't eat. Breakfast, most of the time he will. Lunch, depends. Supper, usually not. He is beyond picky. Won't eat fruit. Or veg. Or anything with fruit or veg in. Or that he cannot identify.

If he's hungry and feeling in the right frame of mind he'll eat new potatoes.

Problem is, although the dietician said to feed him nutrient dense foods, and lots of red meat, I have to do it within the budget constraints, and family constraints. There are 3 other children besides ds, and I cannot plan every meal around the exceedingly narrow range of food he will eat. The two younger girls are now beginning to copy his behaviour, although we encourage them to copy Dss, who (bless him!) runs on his stomach

I believe it comes down to his experiences as a baby/young toddler. Xh was very abusive, and he has sadly experienced xh kicking off at the table, as it was a stage and fixed audience for him. Ds also has many asperger type behaviours, but I have had no formal diagnosis, and am not even sure if he is. He also has mood swings, easily looses control into manic or angry type behaviour, and a lot of adhd type behaviour, which the doctor believes roots back to his low iron levels. He is severely underachieving at school, and cannot focus.

In the mean time family meals are stressful. We are firm believers in eating as a family, for many reasons, and if we have a meal ds will eat, then it's enjoyable. On the whole sadly, it's not. Last night it was beef braised in beer, with new potatoes. Lovely been in gravy, didn't give ds any veg, but because there were carrots cooked with the beef he refused to eat anything.

ds also has dreadful eczema, and refuses to use emollients. I'd become so used to how bad it was, Pediatrician made me see it clearly. Besides refusing to treat it, he will scratch and gouge and pick.

I'm finding it very hard to face facts that my boy is so ill. At the same time as trying to help him, I cannot ignore the other 3, by giving ds a disproportionate amount of me, as the other 3 will see that as a reward for behaviour that they are actively discouraged from.

I've run out of ideas. how to get him to eat, help him control his behaviour, we're both staggering along coping at the mo :(

So what did he have to eat when he wouldn't eat the beef?

Do you give him iron/vitamin supplements?

Is this doctor a specialist or are you talking about a GP?

If not a specialist, I really think you need to push for referral for eating issue and (as this might get you support with the eating and school issues) seek an assessment regarding the possible ADHD and AS behaviours.

For children with SN (not saying he's one, but if he is) it's an unfortunate fact that they will take up a lot of your time in comparison to other NT children.

Dur, sorry, I see you are seeing a paed not GP. In one ear and out the other.

have you investigated food intolerances? symptoms can include eczema, mood swings and fussy eating...

will he drink milkshakes? if so i would stock up on something like complan... at least if he'll drink something like that you will know he is getting some vitamins and minerals and calories into him

i would keep a food diary to see if you can pinpoint anything that makes him worse, and perhaps try cutting out some things to see if that helps.
If it were me I would start with wheat and see how that goes.

Sometimes all the old fashioned ways (eg we all eat together, if they don't eat it they go without, I cook the same meal for everyone) really DON'T work for some children if their needs are just that bit greater.

I'm not saying this is you, but perhaps you could throw the rule book away and start again in terms of looking at what's needed, not least to get him healthy.

If you want my honest advice I suggest getting rid of a formal dinner and lunch times at the table.

Have food available at all times and let him eat when he feels comfortable. Maybe give him a box of snack type food he can help himself to duringvthe day.

You need to take away all the pressure.

I talk from personal experience here, not my children but myself. You can work up to formal dinner time when a healthy relationship and attitude has been formed.

Will he help with the food preparation? Maybe he'd be happier to eat something that he had had a hand in creating?

Sorry, that is a very basic suggestion, not sure if you've tried that already...

I'd be careful with cutting things out at this stage. If, for example, bread is one of his staples and you suddenly replace it with gluten free bread, it could decrease his calorie intake even further and/or cause even more distress.

lol, not sure if/when we'll be back to the paed. He's on iron tabs, but they don't like giving them for more then 3/4 months. he also has a multi vit.

If I give him something else when he won't eat then I have 3 other dc complaining that it's not fair they want the alternative, and then problem escalates. my lot are experts at imagined injustices. They also see his not eating as him being daft, but at the same time the dd's are impressionable and will copy.

pushing the eating and behaviour issues, had an initial assessment with camhs, had an appt come through with the senior nurse who did the assessment and a child psych, but it's for while we're away so waiting for a new one. the cogs of camhs turn oh so slowly.

I believe he has some form of sn, his behaviour is very similar to his bio dad's, but he doesn't seem easy to pigeon hole. I mentioned in the assessment that school commented on his aspie-like behaviours and she said he can't be aspie, he can look her in the eye and hold a brief discussion.

his behaviour has been more manic recently, although settling slightly. We know the trigger there, so are sure we can get him back, but the fortnightly contact with his biodad isn't helping.

you could try getting "can't eat, won't eat" - a book all about children who find eating difficult, for whatever reason.

while I do understand that you dn't want to organise meals around your ds, you do need to try to work out a way of getting nutrients into him.

my dd1 is ASD, and has had food issues in the past. it is very difficult, but rearranging what we ate as a family was the easiest bit, tbh. maybe try asking in the food/allergy sections for ideas as to what you can do with what your ds will eat? I've always got lots of ideas when I've tried that

DD2 has never eaten properly. (shes 14). Has never eaten fruit or vegetables or much else. Tactics? You name it, we tried it. Smoothies, mashing, hiding, bribery, starvayion, stickers..... Etcetcetc.

For years she has had on her plate exactly the same as the rest of us with a slice of bread. Every meal for 14 sodding years. I was hoping eventually shed give in but she hasn't.

I'd maybe take the pressure off. Give him what the rest of you have but also let him choose what he wants on a side plate.

Have you seen a dietitian? (we did but she just suggested we give her more vegetables. Unsurprisingly it didn't work)

Who said the thing about 'he can't be aspie'? They sound like a moron tbh.

What did you give him when he wouldn't eat the beef dinner?

I think you need to accept there isn't a 'quick fix' this will take time, this will take over your life it will be difficult and you do need to treat ds diffrently.

How old are other dc? Can you explain ds is ill this is why hes being treated diffrently?

I would second addictedisback re taking away all the pressures surrounding food and mealtimes.
if he is best at eating in the morning and lunchtime then give him lots to eat then, don't worry about later. (dd1 barely eats in the evening but is ravenous in the morning. if i am not up early she has pretty much eaten the whole box of cheerios )
you can't treat him like the other kids, he has an issue surrounding food and meals. don't give him too much attention about it or get cross, just try feeding him when he is hungry with as healthy a food as possible. Beef in beer with carrots... it's not many kids who would eat that. Try everything plain, everything separate. Even if he eats the same things over and over go with it. Some plain chicken lightly fried, plain pasta, a raw carrot. Try with food like that? Toast with nutella. Scotch pancakes. etc...

Hi
oops previous message vanished! so apologies if repeating

can you get your DS involved in preparing food? from choosing the recipe from a book (library if need be) or online whatever it is he fancies then cooking and helping prepare it for the family. if he has seen what is in it from the beginning that may help
can you see if he will be involved in growing any fruit or veg as he may be more likely to try them? although i'm not sure if this is the best time of the year as i am not a gardener!
i know you want to all eat as a family and in a perfect world that would be great but i think maybe your son would benefit from eating on his own or your DSS if he is a good eater. perhaps the past incident with your XH combined with the pressure of other children and not eating now is too much? i would be tempted to say eat in front of the tv, in the garden wherever you are happy if you will eat. you can introduce family mealtimes later.
as for the excema chickweed cream/ointment is really good to stop itch/scratch cycle
good luck with all this and apologies if repeated information

Was there a reason why you chose to add the carrots to the gravy to cook, instead of cooking and serving separately?

I'm just wondering if there are any ways of tweaking your families favourite recipes (OK - deconstructing recipes) so you don't have to cook separate meals but which give your DS fewer excuses for rejecting a meal in it's entirety (because he could have had the beef and gravy but not had the carrots on hos plate).

Does he eat breakfast cereal? Many of them are fortified with iron. My DS (who is 8, diagnosed with AS) is very fussy but eats cereal very day and I let him graze on it as snacks. If there is a meal he really doesn't like any part of (roast dinner would be an example) he will leave the whole lot and go hungry so I do sympathise, it is very difficult.

I agree with other posters that he probably does need to be treated differently from the other children and illness is an excellent way of explaning it.
I have a dd (13yo next month) with ASD. She has always had major issues with eating (but has somehow managed to remain healthy!)
I have learned to accept she has real issues, it is not "faddy eating", that has helped the way I cope with it.

Hi ready, I have a dd who is 6 who has some similar issues to your ds.

She has eczema too and hates putting on her creams. She says she can't stand feeling all warm and greasy. It we put the cream on her it causes her to scratch and tear at her skin and the result is worse than if we had left her dry.

We had given up on finding a cream that suits her and just used Hydromol in the bath but recently I found a spray on emollient.

It is called Emollin 50/50. We just got it and I tried a patch test on her which she was fine with. It is really oily but doesn't need to be rubbed in and goes on lightly. Maybe it would work for your ds too.

No ideas, but lurking for advice, as I've a very similar lad, who I thought was just being a toddler, but it's gone way past that and he hasn't grown out of, getting worse if anything.
You have my utmost sympathy, and I hope some of the wonderful people on here will find that piece of the jigsaw puzzle for you, and he has help.

Thanks for the ideas- I've had a quick scan, but will look later, just been getting dog out of a big pickle [stoopid dog].

I've tried de constructing recipes, he may or may not eat the decon version depending on his mood. We tend to eat a lot of slow cooker recipes, esp during term time.

I will google emollin, ty for that. He will only willingly put the cream on at school, where he gets one-one with the nurse. Off to the doctors on thurs to discuss his eczema. We usually shower them, as with 4 it's quicker.

The beef was yum- in defence! The other 3 ate it. They eat a pretty good range of food, spag bol, risotto, toad in the hole, roast, chilli, pies, slow cooker hotpot thingys....

The dietician was useless. only useful thing she said was pate sandwiches She didn't want to consider intolerances.

We do feed him fortified cereal. He has an innocent smoothie or a carton of juice in his lunch box, and will eat lollies made of fruit juice (frozen in lolly moulds). Really funny (odd!) but he will eat my home made butter chicken. I have tried him with food prep, but his attention wanders..... and off he goes.

Addicted, that's an interesting idea to break the cycle, could you explain more.... also was it done for you, and did you have siblings? Pm me if you prefer.

Sadly it wasn't just one incident. In my old life, with xh I used to feed the kids separately, and there was one incident where he took ds's plastic plate with his dinner on and smashed it over my head.... This is why I like the family meal times, to try and reinforce that food times are ok, and we find it's a good time to touch base with what the dc have been up to.

Oh poor you I can understand mealtimes being important.

Unfortunately he might be compiling a new list of unhappy associations with mealtimes now, eg pressure to eat braised beef in beer!

How about having lots of butter chicken, pate sandwiches, plus other things he'll eat on offer from now on? I would let the other DC choose those too for a while if they want. I bet they'll be begging you for something different after the novelty wears off.

Then you could introduce a tiny element of demand each time, eg eat a piece of new potato before you get your (preferred) meal. No need for that to be pressurised but if he chooses to eat the potato then he gets lots of praise and everyone makes a fuss of him.

As the demand gently increases to include things he's never tried before, he could start by just touching the item, then touching it to his mouth etc.

My husband has AS and he didn't eat well as a child and still doesn't. He diet consists of potatoes, bread, and junk food. He was always very underweight as a child and adult, until he met me.

If your son does have AS a lot of the normal things you would try on picky eaters won't work. My husband would just go days without eating. The things I've been able to do to help my husband out with his eating habits: make him food whenever/whatever he wants (he needed to gain weight, this may not be an issue with your son), praise him for trying anything new (even if it was a new kind of crisp or chocolate), earn his trust with eating (following what he did and didn't like so when I suggested things to him, he would be more willing to try them out), be very firm and insistent that he try new things (I knew him well enough not to push when he really didn't want to try something). Obviously some of these things are easier to do with an adult rather than a child, but hopefully it will help you a little bit, or at least give you an idea.

When we went to the dietian she said that he was getting all his iron from the chocolate he ate because he eats SO much. She also said that him trying anything new was good because his diet was so limited that even if he added a different kind of chocolate, at least it was adding something new.

If your son does have AS it's normally something specific that they like or don't like about food, for example, they like the texture, color, same food day in/day out. My husband really has a hard time with different textures and he doesn't like it when food mixes, so if you find something he likes the texture of try to replicate it in other dishes.

Sorry this post is so long, but I hope it helps you out! Good luck :).

youngminds.org
were very helpful with dd

I feel for you Readyisknitting. I really do. There are a few things that stick out for me though:

" This is why I like the family meal times, to try and reinforce that food times are ok, and we find it's a good time to touch base with what the dc have been up to. "

Sad as that incident was, you can't make it better by forcing your DS to sit through one torturous meal after another. Bad mealtime experiences will simply reinforce those memories.

" There are 3 other children besides ds, and I cannot plan every meal around the exceedingly narrow range of food he will eat. The two younger girls are now beginning to copy his behaviour, although we encourage them to copy Dss, who (bless him!) runs on his stomach"

Children need to learn that Fair does not = Same. I have 3 young girls. The eldest has SN and goes to Special School. I have to treat her differently in terms of both activities, meal time expectations and behavioural expectations.

Your DS needs you to help him in whatever way you have to, so he recovers. If he'd broken his leg and the Docs said he needs extensive physiotherapy at home, would you say 'but I can't devote too much time to DS because the others will be jealous?' No, you'd explain that sometimes life isn't fair.

My 5 year old and 3 year old both know that DD1 has 'a hard brain' (DD2's coinage) which means that things are different for her. She still has as much expectation as the others, it's just different expectation.

I think I would ease up completely and aim for a very relaxed meal time.

When I took my dc on an all inclusive holiday, they absolutely loved the buffet style meals and the fact that they could help themselves to anything they wanted. They ate really well, and tried lots of things that were new.

Maybe you could just do a main meal type of thing, and in addition put out some bread/toast/cheese/ little bits and pieces and let everyone choose?

I am not suggesting you spend ages preparing a buffet, just put out some separate items along with the main foods and see what happens.

It is nice to sit down to family meals, but not essential, particularly if it causes added stress to anyone.