Ds won't eat, and is making himself quite ill. Need tactics and ideas. He's 8.

[Readyisknitting]

Ds is 8. We have seen a pediatrician, and his iron levels came back as a reading of 5, should be 25. We are also trying to access help through CAMHS,

He won't eat. Breakfast, most of the time he will. Lunch, depends. Supper, usually not. He is beyond picky. Won't eat fruit. Or veg. Or anything with fruit or veg in. Or that he cannot identify.

If he's hungry and feeling in the right frame of mind he'll eat new potatoes.

Problem is, although the dietician said to feed him nutrient dense foods, and lots of red meat, I have to do it within the budget constraints, and family constraints. There are 3 other children besides ds, and I cannot plan every meal around the exceedingly narrow range of food he will eat. The two younger girls are now beginning to copy his behaviour, although we encourage them to copy Dss, who (bless him!) runs on his stomach

I believe it comes down to his experiences as a baby/young toddler. Xh was very abusive, and he has sadly experienced xh kicking off at the table, as it was a stage and fixed audience for him. Ds also has many asperger type behaviours, but I have had no formal diagnosis, and am not even sure if he is. He also has mood swings, easily looses control into manic or angry type behaviour, and a lot of adhd type behaviour, which the doctor believes roots back to his low iron levels. He is severely underachieving at school, and cannot focus.

In the mean time family meals are stressful. We are firm believers in eating as a family, for many reasons, and if we have a meal ds will eat, then it's enjoyable. On the whole sadly, it's not. Last night it was beef braised in beer, with new potatoes. Lovely been in gravy, didn't give ds any veg, but because there were carrots cooked with the beef he refused to eat anything.

ds also has dreadful eczema, and refuses to use emollients. I'd become so used to how bad it was, Pediatrician made me see it clearly. Besides refusing to treat it, he will scratch and gouge and pick.

I'm finding it very hard to face facts that my boy is so ill. At the same time as trying to help him, I cannot ignore the other 3, by giving ds a disproportionate amount of me, as the other 3 will see that as a reward for behaviour that they are actively discouraged from.

I've run out of ideas. how to get him to eat, help him control his behaviour, we're both staggering along coping at the mo :(

Can you really not give an iron supplement long term? I can't see this is a major problem if he isn't already getting any from his diet. Continual supplementation might really help.

I was an extremely fussy eater until my late teens, the only thing that helped me was my mum giving me exactly what I fancied, sorry if thats not what you wanted to hear. It just removes the pressure and stress at mealtimes. My mum also let me read a book at teatime at the table, she found I would eat more if i was distracted, and I was a big bookworm.

Actually a really good easy way to get more iron into him is to cook foods on a cast iron grill - sounds bonkers but it is true. Chargrilled new potatoes?

I have been thinking about this a bit more and agree with 3LittleFrogs about the buffet type meals, I do try and make one meal with lots of elements so that everyone gets some of what they like, when I can. We also try and eat out occasionally in a pub or cafe as that way everyone can have different foods without any extra effort and maybe try new things from each other plates.

So, for tonights meal, which was chilli chicken skewers we had two types of salad (each DC likes one type, I like both), chapattis and rice. DS asked for a lump of parmesan with his and DD asked for some grated cheddar on hers, which although to my mind doesn't go at all, was fine.

Another eg, DS's favourite meal is pasta with tomato sauce (ragu type not ketchup), so he gets his veg there (will accept veg cooked into it, I bulk make and freeze portions). DD doesn't like the sauce so she has sweetcorn/peas/brocolli on the side and gets her veg that way. They both have grated cheese with it.

I also agree with SamraLee about praising ANY new food tried, even if it is sweets or crisps.

Also agree with DylsMimi about changing locations, we eat better when we eat outside at the patio table for some reason. I also allow occasional eating in front of the telly and picnics in the garden whenever the weather permits.

My son was a horrendously fussy eater when he was little. Didn't like any fruit or veg. Didn't like bread or butter. Didn't eat potatoes. Didn't like fishfingers or chicken nuggets that everyone seems to like. He did drink fruit juice though. I used to get myself tied up in knots then one day said I'm not doing this any more and gave him the foods he wanted. Maybe that was wrong but it's what I did. He also ate those little fromage frais pots.

I haven't read full post as in rush but my ds 9 is exact same since he was weaned he has been a nightmare!!!

We all eat at the table and he is the only one of my children that is like this!!

It's hard but I will make him what he will eat, yes this means him eating different food sometimes (most times) but I cook it in batches .. I would rather do this than see him I'll.

Also when making him toast I use full fat butter, milkshakes I try and mkw him have a lot I actually melt ice team to make them, basically I try and bulk what ever food I can up as he is so skinny!!!

I also try and adapt what we eat for him, so if for instance I make a beef pie I will save a bit of beef and cook it in gravy instead of with veg and make a separate little pie.

Honestly I have tried everything from hv to gp, reward charts to helping me cook to choosing meals .. And this is better as he will eat it of he likes it so I just don't give him anything I k ow he won't eat.

Good luck

I'm sorry your family had such stressful times and it makes me understand your need to create new positive mealtime memories.

I'm sure you've tried loads of things but like Samra said, its often not just taste. My dd hates mushy food, white food, bland flavours, she loves spice and crunch and colour.

Our biggest break through was roasted carrots! The crunch and slightly charred sweetness appealed to her. Also roasted parsnips and potatoes are a staple in our house. Another sneaky veg addition is chicken noodle stir fry with tiny (and I mean tiny) threads of carrot that kind of blend against the noodles. I found she likes the crunch of water chestnuts too.

Home made pizza topping with the majority ingredient being tomatoes but added courgettes and carrots. Important thing here is to blend it really smooth so the veg isn't in lumps! Making pizza can be fun even with a short attention span.

henrysmama2012 Iron supplements can be damaging to teeth so I can see why they wouldn't want to prescribe it indefinitely. Iron in foods is OK though so any way of increasing that could be helpful.

OP, I don't have much to add here but hope you get somewhere with this. I like the snack food idea. You mentioned he has Innocent smoothies in lunchbox - will he eat smoothies in general? That would at least get him some calories and also fruit.

Have you read Can't Eat Won't Eat? Published by Jessica Kinglsey - some useful tips there.

My eldest son (severely autistic) used to eat no meat, no fish, no fruit, no veg, no cheese. no eggs, - he ate fewer than 10 items of food. Now he eats pretty much everything. In his case he needed a desensitisation programme (which his teacher at school devised) so he could cope with smells and textures. Basically he started with something he would eat (crisps - providing they were in a red packet ) and added the tiniest speck of something new (baked bean sauce) and worked up from there. It took about a year but he does now eat everything. I can tell you more if you think it might help.

For iron I gave spatone mixed with orange juice (when orange juice was an acceptable drink - it wasn't always) or floradix.

Thats interesting Saintly, would you mind telling us a bit more about the desensitisation? Did you work up to eating one food properly at a time, or several in parallel?

That sounds a lot like ds, could you tell more? He has said it's the taste, his preferred foods are mostly bland and beige. I've thought of that before, but not a clue how to start.

I did nothing (had ds2 and ds3 who was a baby and could barely get ds1 to stay at the table). It was all school.

Anyway once he was eating a crisp with a tiny bit of baked bean sauce his teacher broke his crisps into pieces and put one baked bean between two pieces to make a crisp sandwich. Once he was eating that he took a crisp and put a teeny tiny bit of mashed potato on it. Once eating that made the mash potato dollop bigger. Once he was eating that he put a tiny bit of baked bean sauce on some mashed potato. Then did bigger bits of mashed potato and beans. Then it was mashed potato and tiny bits of casserole sauce, then very quickly we were onto casseroles.

Initially he would only eat at school, but once we were at the casserole stage I started offering at home as well. Before long he was eating pretty much everything. Pasta took a long time to make it back into his diet (he used to eat everything before regression) but he managed that this year (about 7 years after his teacher started). The longest bit was the first bit - beaked bean crisp sandwiches - but from beginning to casseroles/roast dinners/cottage pie was about a year.

Fruit a veg took a while longer but he eats loads on both now.

May I ask what age he began regression, was the food refusal very sudden or gradual?

I have read about the baked bean sauce breakthrough before - amazing

Thanks Saintly, I will have a think about that. My DS likes a combination of bland, beige foods (toast, cereal, pasta) and strong tasting foods (blue cheese, curries, hummus, garlic bread), but not anything much in between (any potatoes including chips, plain meat, meat/gravy combinations, most veg, sausages, anything in breadcrumbs, baked beans). It is difficult when he goes out for meals or to other people's houses as those are the sorts of foods most other children seem to enjoy.

Ds1 didn't like anything other than his fewer than ten items and tbh I would never in a million years have started with baked bean sauce as he only really ate dry crunchy things. I think looking back getting him to tolerate/cope with squishy stuff was the key to rescuing his eating. He wouldn't even eat chips for years.

The food refusal was sudden - at about 15 months? Took a couple of weeks to go from eating everything to nothing. Coincided with loss of speech sounds and early words (which was more gradual) and the start of gut ishooes.

DS ate pretty well anything until 18 months old too. He's never had any physical symptoms associated with it though, what he does eat is healthy, it's just very restricted.

sorry for posting and running Runningisknitting but I have had this-almost exactly. DS is now 16 and we finally tackled the issue (almost) when he was 10. From the age of 5 he started refusing food. His Bio-Father and I split up, XH was an abusive arse and it definitely contributed to DSs eating habits although at the time I didn't link the 2.
I was a young mum and terrified that he wouldn't eat. It became a big issue and I tried everything I could think of. Didn't give him toast and yoghurt for every meal like he wanted because I thought it'd be bad for him and set bad example for his younger brothers. Looking back I should've caved in a bit because it became about control from then on and nothing to do with food (for him).
When he was around 10yrs old after years of battles, fear and guilt I gave up. Mealtimes were still as a family at the table and he ate what he wanted, left what he didn't. The others copy a bit sometimes but more often than not just had their dinner, they liked it, were hungry and DS1 got no attention anymore from not eating. If we had (or still have) for example bolognese we will all have the same but DS1 will have some pasta separated on his plate from a minute amount of the sauce with no meat or veg in it (I spoon some sauce off) and he'll have garlic bread. If he's hungry later on he can have toast or fruit, as can everyone else.
He's massively 'fussy' although I hate that word because I think it's a psychological issue not just being a bit of a fusspot but he's gradually started to try a bit more/eat a bit more and I think that's due to us completely backing off in last 6 years.
I hope I haven't made that sound really casual and easy in a 'oh leave him alone,pander to his needs poor boy' it caused me massive worry, still does. At his worst he was all skin and bones, sunken eyes and terrible skin (eczema flared up really bad) but I'm certain it was due to the stress of XH and my relationship and then the fallout from us splitting, living in refuge and dealing with disruptive contact rather than anything to do with the actual food.
To this day if he is in trouble for something or stressed/worried he refuses to eat anything at all. It's quite amazing how he still does a 'if I'm not allowed to go out/stay up late etc then I won't eat, see how you like that mother dear'
Good luck, hope some of our experience is of use to you-sorry if it isn't (especially as it's so bloody long!!)

for more idea please consider reposting in special needs children board

Sounds tough. Apologies, I haven't read all the posts but here are my thoughts.

Maybe like when they are younger, esp if he has sn issues, he might object to having flavours mixed together and would prefer them separated out. Even though it may seem boring, they might just like to be able to identify what the actual taste and texture of the different things are, and some things are quite different in different states - carrots raw and cooked, for example.

Does he like barbeques? Get a pile of the disposable ones or keep one set up with available charcoal bags and... have lots for a little while? Eat out in the garden and get away from the (inside) table problem. You can part cook things like chicken before it goes on, to speed up the process and make it more reliable in terms of if it's cooked. Can also do other things like skewers or meatballs if you are careful in terms of the grill.

Dips, if he likes them. Either savoury or sweet (you could mix full fat cream cheese into sweet ones, with, say, a bit of lemon curd or a blended mango or blended banana). We fall back on rice pudding quite a bit (younger child) - but it is nutritious (kinda...)

With shepherd's/cottage pie, when you are making the sauce and you have fried the mince you can add a handful (or more) of porridge oats or fine milled pin oatmeal, this is our very favourite recipe all round. Add in boiling water bit by bit and it thickens up fairly quickly. We then add an oxo (or 2) and tomato sauce and a dash of worcs sauce, then put the topping on and bake it until browned. The oats should make it taste creamier but not too thick and porridgey (water quantity therefore not an exact science).

Hang on in there.

Yes, IME Emollin spray is good for eczema - our dermatologist prescribed it for putting on 2 y.o. DS prior to taking him swimming. As a previous poster said, you just spray it on; no need to rub in. A child your DS's age could apply it to lots of areas himself if he wanted. You can use the spray can in any direction, even upside down, which makes it really easy to apply.

It doesn't feel like it, but it's the equivalent to a thick ointment rather than a thin cream. We had it because I couldn't hold DS in the swimming pool after applying ointment - he was too slippery - and Emollin was much better (though we don't use it now as an all-in-one swimsuit has fixed the problem).

It's quite hard to get hold of though - we had to wait a few days for our pharmacy to get it in and they said they'd never had anyone with a prescription for it before.

I think you can get emollients for use in the shower too, though we've not tried any. Oats are good too - we put a handful in a pop sock, tie the end and wash DS with it. Very good for moisturising the skin (obviously you need to use a fresh lot of oats each time).

My DS doesnt eat much and his Consultant Paediatrician has had him on iron supplement for several years despite his bloods being much improved, I had no idea about this side effect and no concerns have ever been mentioned to us about long term use. I will query this now. However it may be worth trying it for your DS to try to break the cycle.

I was a very stressed eater as a young child (from 4 onwards), partly because an untreated head injury gave me migraines, which in turn made me vomit, partly because my mother used to walk behind me and whack me on the back of the head if I was too slow, and partly because the atmosphere at home was awful.

I was skin and bone as a child. I felt sick constantly, never felt hungry, mealtimes made me feel so stressed I'd sometimes be sick with fear. It didn't help that my mother also enforced strict eating plans of 1980s organic dusty cardboard cereal, soya milk etc. And I remember at one point being forced for years to eat 4 Weetabix every breakfast. I couldn't eat 4 now, let alone aged 8 or 9.

I'd say ease off the pressure. I'd personally not try loads of different eating plans in the hope that one works. I'd let him make his own food and really not worry about nutritional value at this point. Just have some 'picky' foods like strawberries, crackers, raisins, carrot sticks, cheese, fruit yoghurt etc lying around... you know your son so you'll know what he might gravitate towards. And leave him alone. Don't watch him, just let him do things quietly under no pressure.

It took me til I left home to really relax enough to eat properly. Now I'm healthy, love all kinds of foods...

It's tough for both sides but there's a way out. Just be prepared for a long road. I think it's great that you care so much.

Have been googling teeth damage due to iron supplements and the only thing I can find is that it causes staining/discolouration not actual decay. Does anyone know if this is correct? If so it may be worth OP trying. My DS only has milk teeth so would I be correct in presuming it is OK to continue taking until he gets adult teeth?

I've never heard of iron damaging teeth but I'm prepared to be enlightened. I give my kids vitabiotics feraglobin syrup, tastes nice (ish!) and they only need a tsp so the bottle lasts a while, you can get it off amazon. It's gentle on the stomach too and contains vit c, all b vits and a few minerals.

Also Natures Plus Animal Parade which are chewable animal shaped vitamins, they're brill. Taste like refresher sweets and contains loads of vitamins, minerals and even probiotics. I often sneak a couple myself.