DS1 asked me whether he could hit back

[red37]

I dont encourage hitting but my ds1 came home from school upset and asked me whether he could hit another child back.
Any advice?
TIA

red37, this is awful. Surely the school should be trying to stop this from happening ? !
As for hitting the girls back, dont know, sorry, thats not very helpful I know. Perhaps if he did hit the boys back the girls would stop picking on him anyway. Hope it gets sorted out soon xx

DS1 has just spent the last year being bullied by one particular boy (same age)and 2 older girls. Luckily it has stopped now.

Anyway I had always bought DS1 up not to be violent, if there were problems he should talk to a teacher/parent but I soon found this added to his problems. The bullies thought he was an easy target and if an adult got involved the bullying got worse, even the bully's parents did nothing when I confronted them. In the end I told DS1 that as long as the bully hit first DS1 had my permission to hit back. DS1 has a very hard punch so knew it would hurt but under no circumstances was DS1 to throw the first punch or hit girls. This helped for a while but then the girls started pushing, slapping, tripping DS up etc so in the end I told DS1 he was allowed to hit back at them, especially as they are 2yrs older but he ws to only hit them, any other girls were off limits. I didnt like the thought of him hitting a girl but in this case it was needed as the bully was getting the girls to do his dirty work for him, that way DS was getting hurt but he wasnt-a bit of a chicken if you ask me. Once the girls realised DS wasnt scared to hit them back they eased off.

In general it is never right for a male to hit a female but there are some circumstances that require it, if DS1 hadnt hit back at these girls their bullying would have continued. Some girls deliberatly target boys because they think they wont be hit back

if your child has not yet reached puberty then yes he should hit girls back to. girls all to often know that boys shouln't hit them and they play on it.

Parp at the pacifists

Damn right - my children understand that it is a heinous sin to hit first but that hitting back is not only perfectly fine, it's imperative!

Always taught my eldest to walk away (he's 11).

Just over a month ago, he got picked on on his way home from school and he walked away. Sadly two days later he got attacked by the same two lads, twice 2/3 hours apart.

Saw one of the lads a couple of weeks ago, he tried to pick yet another fight, my son punched him and left him reeling.

No further problems (as yet).

I think what peoples' experiences show is that bullies only understand one language. Would be interested to hear of cases where the non-violent approach has resolved a bullying situation.

Would be interested to hear of cases where the non-violent approach has resolved a bullying situation.
Good point. Some bullies don't really care about a bit of temporary pain, some seem pretty much to seek it out.
Not quite sure if it makes it all the way to non violent. Was a bully at my school, staff took no interest in any bullying they didn't actually see.
One day I saw him picking on someone in my computer club. Removed his Doc Marten boots and hid them.

The idea was public and prolonged humiliation. I had tried hurting him with no effect. So I put on a really bad Red Indian voice, and said things of the form "umm me hid um bootees", and gave him clues as to where they might be. Told him to go and ask various groups of smaller kids where they might be. He was very unhappy, worked a treat.

Well, reading about all these horrible experiences so many of you - and your chidren - have suffered at the hands of bullies makes me really and and, yes, I'm considering defecting from the pacifist camp!
Maybe my views have been coloured by an extraordinarily non-violent childhood - I dunno. NEVER had to deal with any of the stuff so many of you have been faced with.

I would never tell my son to hit back. I can't imagine telling him to hit somebody, under any circumstances, I'm afraid. DS1 has encountered violent and aggressive behaviour from other children at nursery. I tell him to speak to the nearest adult, avoid that child if possible, and tell me when I pick him up so that I can talk to his teacher. I've also taught him that hitting/kicking/hurting people is ALWAYS wrong. No exceptions.

God no - all violence is wrong - and you can't say to a kid hitting is wrong if you then tell them to do it right back.

And my DD doesn;t have it in her to hit someone back - I would be terribly disappointed if she ever hit someone - 1st, 2nd 3rd or 4th - violence is appalling!!

My daughter is told to shout really loud that the person hitting or being mean is horrid and doesn;t have a kind heart (at 6 and at a catholic school not having a kind heart is seen as the worst thing in the world!!) - it does work at the moment only tuesday morning the girl who had been dragging all of her friends away and telling them not to play with her was in tars - a few well chosen words can go a long way - and I know it won't as she grows up but hopefully I can then use a different approach.

How long would you put up with it before telling them to punch them one back? Children commit suicide over bullying - no child of mine will reach that point if I can help it

OK, maybe the answer's to establish a firm 'hitting is not acceptable' rule from toddlerhood. So that your child has a clear idea that violence is not acceptable.
BUT then, if and when (and hopefully this never happens) they get older and suffer nasty bullying, you tell them that, in this instance and only in this instance, it's OK to hit back.
What worries me is telling toddlers and preschoolers it's OK to hit back...

Well i think that self defense is natural and should be allowed. I would not tell my DD to hit first, she knows i hate violence and don't hit myself but if someone is hitting her, then she does not have to stand and take it.
Why should she? She's not a punchbag for some little bully.

Well as we know the law enshrines self defence as a legal right

God no - all violence is wrong - and you can't say to a kid hitting is wrong if you then tell them to do it right back.
Well we've not told our kids that hitting is wrong.
The point is to try and build a proper decision making ability, where it is not seen as a first resort.
I think it is quite wrong for an adult who is under no physical threat to say that their children should just take being beaten up because of some veiw of the way the world should be but is clearly not.

omg i agree with dominiconnor

I disagree. Even an adult under physical therat can choose to respond in a non-violent manner. I speak as someone who is no stranger to violence. Self-defence has many forms, and even physical self-defence does not have to be violent, or involve stooping to the level of your attacker.

Fighting fire with fire simply means more people getting burned. I tend to find water a much more effective weapon against fire:)

What an interesting thread. I am instictively non-violent but it's made me think about it.

I DO teach my kids that hitting is wrong actually. I am not sure how to teach my son that sometimes it's ok (as self defence) What happens when his three year old sister wacks him? Would he hit back harder then?

I am thinking now that some type of self defence, like karate has to be the solution.

I'm with you, Puddle. Completely foxed...

I do feel that my view may change as ds gets older though julia. He's only 6 at the moment. The big bad world of secondary school may be a different matter altogether.

I'd like him to feel that he can manage situations without resorting to violence. But I may have to accept that this won't always be possible and give him the skills to be able to cope then too.

Red37 have you spoken to the school about what's happening with your son? If he's being bullied they should know and they should be doing something about it.

Hey, I've been struggling to put that into coherent words for 2 days, now - and you've just done it beautifully. Thank you

puddle - I have in the past, told my children not to hit back if a child smaller than them starts hitting actually. I guess they have to use their own judgement in each situation, but we have talked about it, and they know that they can hurt a smaller child more than the smaller child can hurt them, so they should not use force.

Fortunately, we havent come across a situation where a smaller child hits one of my children more than once, so it hasnt really been an issue. dd2 is only 2, so they arent really scared of being hit by her!

I truly believe that children need to know how to defend themselves. When they are little, the other children are afraid that the teacher will find out that they have been naughty, but as they get older weaker children can become targets.

I watched a truly terrible incident today at the college where I work where a boy was beaten up by two others. He did nothing in his defence and ended up being taken to hospital. His course tutor said he was a quiet lad who rarely spoke in class, so I am sure he did nothing to provoke such an attack. I was terribly upset by it.

He was also quite isolated and I think this is a problem too. I have heard some awful things this week about a young 11 year old boy who killed himself because he was being bullied at secondary school. It almost makes me weep to think of how his parents must feel.

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with the thread really, but there are some truly revolting people around and I know that we can't avoid bumping into them sometimes, so I want my children to be able to defend themselves.

OMG There seems to be so many mixed feelings on this subject.
Is it wrong to encourage hitting back as a means of self defence or do I tell him to walk away or use other means such as telling teachers or talking his way out of it. Puddle- I have spoken to the school about the incidents that are going on at lunchtimes. Went straight to the head this time.The head teacher has zero tolerance of any form of bullying whether it is ongoing or as a single incident. As a means of deterring it, red and yellow cards are issued to pupils for hitting. Red ones for the instigators and yellow are for the retalliators.
Continued red cards lead to exclusion or suspension depending on the nature of the incidents.
As for continued yellow cards, loss of playtime, storytime etc.
I agree that bullies only understand one language but I have tried to tell my ds1 that there is other ways to outsmart them or even humiliate them.
I remember being picked on myself and I told the girl to meet me after school, one on one and we would have it out. She never turned up and she never bothered me again.
Bullies need power and control and once they lose that power and control, they shrivvell up so to speak. On that occassion i didnt have to hit back.Its knowing what is the best thing to do at that particular time.
Is there a right or a wrong way?