Bizarrely wakeful baby, dangerously tired mum - I badly need suggestions

[Kenobi]

I need some help or encouragement, because I am so tired it's actually affecting my health - my skin is terrible, my back hurts and I'm not losing my post-birth weight. Plus if I don't sort this out soon I'm going to sleep-drive into a wall or something equally dangerous.

19 week old DD2 is a darling - a genuinely sweet, laidback baby. At 6-8 weeks she started sleeping from 7pm-2am and I thought I had it cracked. However, that period remains the best she has ever slept.

I don't feed, rock or comfort her to sleep at night. She has her milk, a burp then I put her down and leave the room and she normally self-settles within 5-7 mins.

She now goes down at 7pm then wakes at 10, 11-12, 2-3am, 5ish and then gets up for the day between 7-8.30am. She isn't a great day sleeper either - until recently she was only sleeping for 40 mins at a time, but since she turned 4 months she is starting to stitch together her sleep cycles and going 1 hr 20.

We are co sleeping because the idea of trekking back and forth between another room when I'm this tired is anathema, but other than that I'm pretty consistent - I leave her to cry for 5-10 mins, then I tend to feed her (too tired to do otherwise!) she takes about 5 mins from each breast. I tried rocking and not feeding but while she enjoyed it very much she didn't go to sleep! Sometimes she doesn't want feeding, she just lies there having a cheerful little party in the dark.

My mum I think thought I was exaggerating, but she took her last night. I did a dream feed at 10.30 (she took 6oz). DD then woke at 3am and did not go back to sleep, she was chatting and cooing for an hour and a half before she got fed up. Eventually mum cracked at 5am and brought her to me. She took a full breast feed and then... stayed awake for another HOUR, just chatting and waving her arms and legs around. (I lay there trying not to cry, knowing DD1 would be up at 6.30...)

Until recently DD was only taking 3oz at a time during feeds (I bottle during the day and bf at night) so I gave her a pass as I thought she was probably hungry at night, but she is taking 6oz bottles every 3.5 hours during the day now. She is a big, bonny baby, 8kg at 19 weeks. No baby that size needs to feed every 2.5-3 hours at night, surely, SURELY?!

DD is a very fussy feeder, she takes in a lot of air, and I find it very hard to get burps out of her - wind gets trapped for hours, which may be a big part of the problem.

Might early weaning help? Not wild about CIO as I feel she's too young.

I really need some suggestions as I also have a very clingy 2.7 year old DD1 who deserves better than an exhausted, irritable mother.

I'd be inclined to put her in her own room. Your movements, breathing, sleep sounds may be disturbing her sleep and as she knows you're right there and BF her on demand she has no incentive to self-settle. I'm sure a committed co-sleeper will be along in a minute to say 'no, continue with what you're doing', but you sound absolutely exhausted and as if the present situation is not working, so how about trying something else?

juneau She is a light sleeper and I'm thinking that might explain the 10pm wake up as that's when I come to bed - but the other two? I'm a light sleeper and I don't snore... I put her in her own room for the first time last night (with mum's help) so am heading that way. But as you can see it didn;t exactly have brilliant results...

hothead I know that's the logical answer to sleep deprivation but then I literally won't see my DH. Or get any 'me' time. IPhone would disturb DD2 - see light sleeper above!

I should go to bed earlier than 10 but after cooking super and clearing up and bit of TV the evening just seems to disappear. I have to try harder.

Id say get her in her own room,

Get your partner to get up and feed her once in the night. If he/she works, make sure he/she does the friday/saturday nights to give you two nights a week of quality sleep.

Move yourself as far away as possible on these nights (spare room?) put in earplugs and insist that you are not woken before 5/6am. Go to bed as soon as you have dream fed her - pref before. SHe's already on a bottle, so if you continue to feed last thing at night and first thing in the morning, you will be fine keeping up your supply for as long as you want (I fed my son until 10 months just first/last thing). You will be able to cope much better after a couple of decent nights sleep.

Make sure that there is no stimulation when you get up in the night - low lighting, no chatting and cooing or peering over the side of the cot

Start offering water if she wakes frequently.

The only way we cracked this with my son was for my DH to do night waking. It was hard on him, because he worked long hours, but neither one of us was getting any quality sleep with a cute baby in the bed. It took a couple of weeks until the wee man got the message that the boob bar was not open all night.

Well the situation is unlikely to magically change in one night. Give it a week or two. Decide what you're prepared to do and stick with it. The first three nights are the worst with any new regime IME.

Can you get her to take more during the day? 6oz bottles isnt that much, by that age my 25th centiler was taking 8!

hatti I already keep everything very dark and boring at night. Unfortunately DH sleeps in another room so I can't count on his help for non-altruistic reasons (!), but he's one of the good guys and may give up a night or two.

Ugh... two weeks. Though if it works...!

hothead I can't wait til 9 months plus, I think that's a marriage-damagingly long amount of time to not share a bed with DH or see him. I feel like we'd become roommates rather than lovers iyswim

juneau I know, I know, it's just... I was hopeful it might change things a little.

brettgirl I know!!! She is what kellymom calls a 'highly distractible baby' and is is a nightmare to feed - uninterested unless it's dark and quiet, and very fussy and burpy (she hasn't got reflux btw). I think it's a bit of chicken/egg - she makes up feeds at night because she's distracted during the day, and she's distracted during the day because she isn't as hungry as she should be, having fed at night.

I can't help I'm afraid, just sympathise. DS is 9m and wakes as often as your dd and always has, never had a good patch. Weve just moved so finally have a spare room which we can put him in once we've sorted it out. I'm hoping that that will improve things. Atm there's no point dh feeding him in the night as I'll be awake anyway, I need some distance between me and DS before I can start sleep training.

I have found, though, that I'm used to the lack of sleep! I can function fairly well most days. I make sure that dh does all he can i.e he gets up once DS ( and ds1) is up for the day, so I get a bit if sleep then. Also if DS is just partying in the night and doesn't want feeding, I hand him over to dh then too.

It's bloody hard, but we'll get there!

I sounds like she is reverse-cycling - feeding more at night and less during the day. Is it also possible that she just really likes breastfeeding, and night-time is her chance? Either way, she is probably now genuinely hungry when she wakes at night because she's used to being fed, and her body clock is now set this way.

My DS2 got into this pattern, and it wasn't that hard to sort, although he was older - 7 months ish, and on solids so a slightly different situation. He was in our room, but not ever in our bed, and I did move his cot as far away from us as was possible (not that far as not a huge room, but away from beside he bed).

We timed how long he was feeding for at night - about 10 minutes. Then every 2nd night we cut down how long he was allowed to feed for by a minute - i.e. 9 mins x2 nights, then 8 mins x2 nights etc. It was a gentle way to teach his body not to be hungry, and there was surprisingly little resistance. We also had a rule that we were not to feed him more frequently than (IIRC) 2 hourly, then 2.5, then 3, then 4 hourly, increasing every few days. If he woke before then we'd try to shush him back to sleep, or DH would take him (if he wouldn't sleep) until feed time. Only the first few nights were difficult.

Once we got to about 2 minutes per feed he had generally stopped waking - well, woke about once a night, but I was fine with that. He was also breastfeeding more through the day.

You would try something similar, although at 4 months she will need some night feeds - maybe decide that you'll do a 10pm "dreamfeed" and one more, or something, then try to gently cut down on the others?

I think it sounds fairly normal to me as both my babies have been like this, as have others in my circle. It wasn't until on here I realised how lucky some people are with sleepy babies. I feed to sleep as when she stirs I can give a quick five min feed and she goes back.

I am knackered. And have put on weight but lie good thing about it being number 2 is that I know it's just for a season and we cope even if I'm a bit of a zombie.

Good luck. I think parents with. Sleeping babies don't have a clue what long term sleep disturbance is like!

Agree btw that is fairly normal. To clarify, my Ds2 did this from birth and we finally took action at 7 months, ie it wasnt just a blip at this age. Ds1 was even worse with major settling issues.....but whole other story!

DD1 was waking x1 a night at this stage which was about standard with my friends, and I must say I didn't think this much night-waking in a nearly 5 month old baby was that common. It's vaguely reassuring that it does happen and you all survived I suppose!

Still I am pretty confident that that has happened, too. DD isn't that motivated by food, she's not that fussed how it comes. Very interesting to hear how you solved it. Think between you and Hatti's system there might be something for me. And at least having a plan makes me feel more in control!

beatrice my DB and SiL had their first 4 days before DD2. That baby sleeps 13 hours a night in her own room, takes 2 two-hour naps, literally never cries and is already trying to sit up. I love them to bits but it makes me feel USELESS even though I know I'm doing nothing different to SiL!
Anyway you're a greater woman than me just accepting it.

also, is it normal for a young baby to just lie in a dark room just cooing and playing?

Also just to clarify still, she's also been like this from birth with a brief reprieve at 60-8 weeks. urgh, it's such misery.

Wow lucky db! I've got no cry sleep solution for some inspiration but haven't read it yet.

It does start by saying that a long 4 hour stretch followed by 2 hourly is normal although some self settle earlier.

To be honest I'm a zombie and would love to have a sleeping baby but I do find it reassuring it's in the bounds of normal.

Unbelievably envious of anyone with a sleeping through baby!

My babies were like this too. Its what makes me want to hit the "just co-sleep with your babies, its so much easier" brigade on the head with a frying pan. Sympathies.

Haven't read whole thread so sorry if already mentioned. Have you tried feeding her as soon as she stirs instead of crying for few minutes. I found ds would be more wakeful if he had to wait longer and so be harder to get back to sleep, whereas if I got straight onto the feed while he was still drowsy he slipped back off after much more easily as had never really woken up IYSWIM.

Wow i can sympathise i had similar recently. Weirldy i find my 19 wk old 8kilo DS will sleep well UNLESS he wakes at 10/11pm. If he gets disturbed or if i try to dreamfeed, or accidentally wake him up , he will then wake up ever 3 hours. If however he sleeps well from 7pm and doesnt get disturbed- he can sleep well until anytime from 3.30am or sometimes 6.30am (rare but amazing when it happens!!
I would try to keep her asleep (own room/ or be v. Quiet going to bed). It may be that she can smell your milk and wakes for that? Apparently they can smell milk within 20 feet. Mine is EBF and im trying to get him on combination feeding but he will take hardly any formula if im in the house, but if im out will take a bottle of formula. Perhaps try a formula bottle before bed & express to keep up supply? Might take her longer to digest it?
I also have a gassy fussy feeder. I found giving him lots of boob from 5-6.30pm makes him tank up. Also lots of attention & body contact during the day so he isnt just getting up for cuddles!

If she wakes at ten I would be inclined to not dream feed but keep her up for an hour and a half or so before settling her again. I did this with all my four and found that they would usually then sleep until 4-5am, dream feed and go back off. Gradually they would go from about 11.30pm until 6-7 am where I started keeping them up for less and less time at ten until they slept right through.

The only reason I can think of why it may have worked is perhaps just a bit too much day time sleep. Who knows but it did work for mine.

Haven't read the whole thread so sorry if I am repeating. You might like 12 alterantives for the all night nurser and what she is doing sounds very much like the 4 month sleep regression.

Sounds like normal 4 month sleep regression.

Overtiredness could be a factor though ie how long she's awake between naps. Most babies that age can't manage more than about 2 hours (will be longer after a longer nap, shorter after a shorter nap). Babies who have at least one nap more than 40 mins will probably need 3 naps at that age; if shorter naps, they'll need more.

Letting her cry before feeding her will probably cause her to wake up more, which could have a knock-on effect for the rest of the night. Have you tried feeding her much sooner? Leaving to cry for that length of time is basically CC, which isn't recommended before 6 months.

Early weaning is unlikely to help as almost all foods suitable before 6 months are lower in calories and fat than milk.

Hatti is right, I think.

I noticed a massive difference when I finally moved my dd into her own room at 7 months. Before that she woke at least three times a night. My mum bought me this monitor - it was a Tomy one - with a 'parent mode' feature which means that I can set the sound level so that you do not hear every sniffly, cooing sound, but it kicks in if they cry. It saved my sanity. You have been given lots of good advice here, good luck xx