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Behaviour/development

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Really having problems with 4.5yo boy

47 replies

GeoffM · 01/08/2012 20:27

We've got several books on the subject, tried numerous things, don't think we're doing anything particularly wrong, yet we're really struggling with our 4.5 year old son. I'm hoping somebody can suggest something new or spot a problem!

The first problem is eating. He really does not want to eat anything most of the time, except sweets of course. Only if he's really hungry will he eat without too much encouragement. When he's not arguing over eating he'll just sit there, often with food actually in his mouth, just not doing anything with it. I don't think there's anything medically wrong - he's had two physicals recently (long story, unrelated reasons) and nothing was picked up. He likes processed food, of course, but we try not to give in to that too often, especially as we both cook from fresh most days. But even when he does have food he likes, mealtimes can often take an hour or more. We've tried using timers and not giving him anything except water until the next mealtime, to no avail. Doesn't make a difference if he helps cook/prepare the food. To be fair, he does eat fruit though.

Next is inattention. Often he's so engrossed that he simply doesn't hear - or maybe he has rather selective hearing. A recent hearing test showed normal hearing. You literally have to be right in his face before he'll respond. Even when he does acknowledge that he's heard, it's often that we have to start counting before he does it - and that doesn't work any more because he waits until 2 or even 3 before doing it every single time.

Sort of related is his attention span. We try to only give one instruction at a time - eg get your PJs on, then when he's finished that, brush your teeth. Five minutes later and he might have his top on but that's all. He can be distracted by nothing at all, just his own world. Ask him again, give him a few minutes, and he'll still be only partially dressed.

He's actually quite intelligent according to the preschool (he goes for 3 full days per week). They similarly have problems with him eating. We try to stimulate him by reading with him, or give him interesting things to do if we can't be with him. Usually he can occupy himself, for example if he wakes up early.

As for sleeping, he tends to go to bed around 8-9pm and wakes up around 7am. No naps during the day, though at preschool they have a quiet time when they lay on mats - most do sleep but not DS.

He gets a reasonable amount of physical exercise - more when he's at preschool, but even at home we have a pool which he loves.

He doesn't get to watch TV much; some days none at all. Same for video/phone games. He does have a 9mo baby sister which I know can be a factor but he seems to have gotten over the jealousy stage. We did move house a couple of months ago, which I know can be another factor, but the behaviour is pretty much the same now as it was before. I don't think we spoil him but sometimes he does act like a spoiled brat. I like to encourage good manners like saying "Please can I have" instead of "I want", yet it must be well over a year since we started getting insistent on it. Maybe it's a game to him to not bother until we remind him.

Wow, so much yet I've probably forgotten something. He's not a bad kid, quite lovable - but these things really drive us mad when it's a continuous theme throughout the day. Sometimes we go to bed absolutely mentally and physically shattered.

Thanks for any advice!

OP posts:
SpringHeeledJack · 01/08/2012 21:41

just bumping for you- don't have any answers here but hopefully someone'll come along who has

SuzysZoo · 01/08/2012 21:48

Sounds a lot like a lot of 4.5 year old boys I'd say. Lots of them are fussy eaters and need to be told the same thing lots of times. In fact my 9 year old is still much like this. Your son sounds lovely and I'd say, quite typical.

MacMac123 · 01/08/2012 21:49

I'm not clear what the exact problems are. He sounds just like my boy who is 3.10!!
Just think its pretty typical

SpringHeeledJack · 01/08/2012 21:54

boys schmoys

pretty much all of it actually sounds like DD at 4.5 years and through to eight and counting

BigFatCushion · 01/08/2012 21:55

Yep - Identify with much of this with mine (same age). She can be rude, backchats us and gets fussy about food. With food, she can take it or go without. If she turns her nose up and says it's disgusting I whip it away until she apologises (which is about 30 seconds later). She constantly pushes the boundaries. To save my own sanity, I try to pick out things she has done well and really praise her (supernanny style).

I have found I need to lower my expectations. Be firm, consistent, no shouting and try and focus on the good stuff.

Are you in the UK? Will your son start school in September? Apparently this is a developmental nightmare for many children - too big for preschool and need something else to challenge them.

BlueGuinefort · 01/08/2012 21:58

Apart from the eating this sounds awfully similar to my DD of the same age. Certainly the inattention, lack of concentration and amount of sleep.

DD falls asleep anytime between 7 and 8 and is almost always up before 6:30 (often as early as 5:00). No nap.

So frustrating trying to get them to get dressed, go to the loo etc. I can sympathise completely Smile

LadyStark · 01/08/2012 22:03

My DD is mostly a good eater (takes ages though) but is the same age and the rest of your post sounds very familiar.

Nursery said similar about it being a tricky developmental age, pre-school not stimulating enough, big fish in small pond etc but coupled with anxiety about moving to big school - apparently they see it every year!

mrsmusic2 · 01/08/2012 22:08

Actually this sounds like a typical small boy. My 5yr old DS doesn't seem to hear instructions, won't eat much at mealtimes but will eat sweets all day and frequently gets distracted.

Try not to worry, it's all normal stuff I'm sure.

SuzysZoo · 01/08/2012 22:50

This book might be worth reading - it has lots of great reviews......

How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk [Paperback]
Google it at Amazon.

GeoffM · 03/08/2012 05:04

Thanks everyone. To the question about whether we're in the UK - well, we moved from the UK to the US a few months ago. Undoubtedly there's an issue there but as I say, he was pretty much the same before hand as well. Unfortunately here he'll start proper school in September 2013 (would have been 2012 in the UK) due to the cut-off dates.

To those that say he sounds quite normal, well, he must have particularly unusual friends and cousins then! If he was the same as the cousins and friends then I'd understand, but he's not. Not saying the cousins are perfect but from watching them, including visiting their houses and casually observing, and from babysitting directly, they tend to be a lot calmer and better behaved than DS.

SuzysZoo, I saw that book a while ago but didn't buy it. Maybe I'll look again!

Thanks everyone.

OP posts:
lopsided · 03/08/2012 06:30

The sleep issue I would say is typical. Most 4.5 are not sleeping in the day. Many in the UK are at school. I would put him to bed much earlier though.

Children can be fussy too. However unless he is underweight I would just leave him too it for a bit and if he eats it fine but if he doesn't just take it away without comment or fuss. No snacks though, everything counts. Only water and no fruit, lollies, bread etc between meals.

The not paying attention thing and only remembering one instruction at a time. Well if he is putting his own things on and brushing his teeth I think he is doing quite well. Bed times only speed up if I am chivvying and nagging or worse actually doing it for them in this house. Remember they don't usually want to go to bed :)

I think it is unusual to be able to ignore people the way you describe. He has had a lot of changes recently.

There us such a wide range of abilities and behaviors at this age, you can only see if if a small person is living with you or think it at school. I recently spent some time in a nursery and was surpised. Surprised at some of the amazing things they knew about and could do but also surprised that some were struggling so much with personal care. I do think there is a wide range esp at this age.

HotheadPaisan · 03/08/2012 07:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Whirliwig72 · 03/08/2012 07:46

Yep you've got my 3.7 year old there too Smile.

GeoffM · 03/08/2012 19:55

Putting him in bed earlier just results in him waking up earlier. He's still getting a good 10-11 hours which I understand is typical for that age. I'm not worried about him not sleeping during the day; just an observation of others really. Most of the time, once in bed, he'll fall asleep quite easily (hmm, just like his mum).

As for playing with other kids, he's quite sociable. Yes, he has tantrums if he doesn't want to share, or others don't share with him, but I don't think it's particularly unusual. He loves preschool, always has done - never one for tears leaving him there! The teachers at both pre-schools (US and UK), and the nursery when he was younger said, have all mentioned his eating habits.

We haven't really tried serving from bowls - we tend to plate food up, especially if it's only us two adults and him. Worth a try though.

As for personality traits in the family, well I guess I'm rather hard headed too!

OP posts:
keepmumshesnotsodumb · 03/08/2012 20:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HolyOlympicNamechangeBatman · 03/08/2012 20:13

Apart from the eating it all sounds very age appropriate and normal. Maybe your expectations are too high?

I think all you can do is praise the good behaviour (loads, really go over the top) and have a consequence for bad behaviour (we use time out, but whatever suits). I find a reward chart really works well. Just wait for him to mature out of it, he's still quite little!

3duracellbunnies · 03/08/2012 21:08

Don't forget too that around less familiar people children can behave differently. Mine are often praised for being so polite and eating everything they are given etc, etc. We certainly don't always get that behaviour at home, but would if all but the most familiar friends were here. Also your DN might have sanctions/rewards offered for good behaviour when you are babysitting. I'm not saying that there aren't issues, but don't feel that your neices and nephews are always like that. Or maybe they are smacked if they misbehave (don't know what the culture re smacking is where you are). He sounds fairly normal, possibly a bit bored and with some food/ control issues. Few children starve themselves, and if weight isn't a problem and there aren't medical reasons then probably take some of the pressure to eat off and use some of the suggestions on here.

GeoffM · 04/08/2012 01:16

I don't think my expectations are too high. As I say, I'm comparing with other kids his age. There's only so much a child can be different if guests are in the house with them. I really don't believe a child will be on his/her best behaviour in that situation - certainly not for extended periods!

It's hard to put into words quite how he is. For example, if he does something that is definitely not good - let's say throwing a bucket of water outside the bath - then we'll say straight to his face "do not do that because of X", he'll simply pick up the bucket and pour a little less over the side right in front of us. Clearly that's testing the boundaries, but when you get to three buckets of water over the side and the only way to break the cycle is to physically remove said bucket, then you can see why we're stressed! All day long.

He is a bit skinny but not underweight. I guess maybe we're worrying too much there. Okay, no pressure. If he eats then great, if not then he doesn't get treats between meals, just healthy stuff.

The timer experiment was because we were running out of ideas. Didn't work anyway.

We use time outs as well, but they're turning into trials as well - screaming, arguing, etc. We know to ignore it, but it frays our nerves when it's going on.

Reward charts haven't ever worked very well either! I think this is because they're only effective if the child remembers the rewards when he's being naughty - which, of course, they don't.

Smacking is a whole discussion subject in itself but FWIW around here it's pretty much the same as the UK - you can use discipline as long as it doesn't leave a mark. Also doesn't work, except maybe knocking away a hand reaching for something where he's been told three times already not to touch/grab.

OP posts:
TheSadWitch · 04/08/2012 01:55

Have you tried being exceptionally logical?

I just say this because he sounds quite like me, and I find I tend to follow rules more then people expect me to. If you've said to him that he shouldn't throw water over the bath because downstairs might flood, then throwing half as much seems a logical response to him. Because then it won't be so bad, iyswim. So maybe if you spell things out for him, ie no water can be thrown over the bath because the ceiling is not able to withstand ANY water, it might be clearer?

Petisa · 04/08/2012 08:37

Sounds JUST like my 4.3 yo dd OP, apart from the eating. So hard to get her to calm down and listen and do what you are asking! I find it so hard not to nag or shout.

Petisa · 04/08/2012 08:39

Just read your last post OP, yep, still sounds normal to me. Just take the bucket away, par for the course. Time outs cause a massive scene here too.

tacal · 04/08/2012 09:18

Do you have a HV you can speak to about this? I had concerns about my ds behavouir when he was 2. Everyone I spoke to told me he sounded normal but I knew he was behaving differently to most children his age. My HV was very helpful and did a number of home visits where we discussed discipline and how to handle the difficult situations I was worried about. It really did help me. My dad was terminally ill at the time and I think this had affected my ds and also not getting enough sleep. His behaviour really turned around when I started using the HV's suggestions.
Ds is now 3.5 and a few months ago went through a phase of not wanting to eat anything except cheese sandwhiches and sweets. I found it really stressful to deal with and I can really sympathise with you. I am lucky that he is getting back to normal now. He had a chest infection recently and I explained that eating healthy food would keep coughs and colds away. This seemed to work but I doubt it will work for your ds. My ds is very, very stubborn and wont do anything unless he wants to. It makes life very difficult and stressful at times. So I do understand how you feel. I hope you get some advice that helps you move on from the feeling that you have now. Good luck.

GeoffM · 04/08/2012 17:37

Well, I still can't believe I know something like 20-30 kids his age who are, bar one, all better than DS, yet on this forum somehow all the kids are like DS!

"Just take the bucket away", again, that was an example of the types of event that happen all day long. If I took away everything that has the potential for abuse then I'd be left with an empty room. And still he'd find something bad to do!

There are no health visitors (assuming that's what you mean by HV) here. We did talk with our last one in the UK but unfortunately she wasn't much good with toddlers. Great with babies but that was about it!

The annoying thing with time-outs is that they used to work. The very first time we did it (he was maybe 2 at the time) somehow he knew what to do and just sat there after we explained why he was there, and did the cuddling afterwards. These days it's a temper tantrum, argumentative, bad tempered affair where you can't even explain why he's there because of all the theatrics, whether before or after.

We did try letting him choose where to sit, and to help himself from bowls of food. "But I don't like" of course, so ended up serving him chicken and rice ourselves. We'll try again though.

OP posts:
cornflakegirl · 04/08/2012 18:18

Stuff like pushing the boundaries with the bucket - how much of that do you think is him trying to get attention? Not suggesting you're neglecting him, but I assume if you've got a 9mo that he is inevitably getting less attention than if he were an only.

Can you get him more time at pre-school? It could be that the extra stimulation would help him, and if you've not got him for so long, it might be easier not to get frustrated? (Not judging at all, btw - I frequently get frustrated with mine.)

cornflakegirl · 04/08/2012 18:18

Meant to say - what do his pre-school think about his behaviour? Do they have any concerns?