6 year old son turning into demon!

[Angiebabes]

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Our DS is 6 and his attitude & behaviour is grinding us down.

If he doesn't get his own way he starts screaming, shouting & growling (actually baring teeth)
His moods are awful, it's like treading egg shells some days.
If something doesn't suit he will go in one almighty tantrum, which can last anywhere between 10 minutes & 2 hours...nothing brings him out it, but himself. He will then apologise for his behaviour. Which I suppose is something, but it's seriously affecting our family life.
My husband & I both feel like he's turning us into people we are not.

He gets up early in the morning & proceeds to wake us by entering our bedroom, it doesn't matter how many times he's told not to, he still does it. We don't know what a long lie is at the weekend, he's up by 7am!
It wouldn't matter if there was a lock on the door, he would shout until we got up.

Last night he refused to go to bed. A 2 hour screaming hysterical tantrum ensued. He was ignored, put bs k in room etc, nothing worked.
He screamed at me that "I was the worst mummy ever" last night.
He had my husband & I in tears as its getting beyond a joke. (he was upstairs causing havoc so wasn't aware how upset we were)

This is a new thing, he's very very well behaved out and about, we get compliments about his behaviour from strangers & friends, but when he gets home it's like the devil has swapped places with him.

His behaviour, lack of respect for us & disregard for discipline is grinding me down.

We have done all the consequence routine, sending him to his room, taking his DS, cars, fav toys away, sweetie ban etc, it's not like we don't discipline him. We do, and he knows it's going to happen as he is told, his reply is "I don't care"

I'm at my wits end.

I'm not a soft touch, but he pushes & pushes to the limit. When I was his age I would know when enough was enough. My Mum had a look & a tone.
Nothing works with him.

Is this an age thing???

No it's not an age thing , he's taking the piss and knows it when he gets a reaction no matter how small.

Stick to one punishment and one punishment only, all this taking away sweets, ds, tv is all too mixed and muddled.

He needs a time out step, I used the bottom of the stairs with mine (I have two sons aged 5 & 10) a minute every year of age. No discussion. No eye contact . No nothing. He gets off the step he gets put back on and it starts again.

Walk away and ignore him, you and your DH talk to each other have fun, kiss and cuddle, watch something good on TV, but ignore ignore ignore. Tell him after 6 minutes firmly and quickly that he can come off the step when he has stopped shouting/screaming/crying. Even is this lasts hours and hours. It is the only thing that works, it is a battle of wills and he has to learn what he can and cannot do. It's not cruel, he is safe and you are in control.

Let all the nastiness and not nice things wash over you, so hard I know, but short, sharp and consistency is needed.

I did this with my eldest and it works. Take out the emotion and get drill soldier-esque. You have to go through a small nightmare/battle for this to stop. Also when he is behaving, over praise him, have fun and engage with him eg: want to make cakes/play footy/have a friend over etc etc this give the message that he gets you attention when his behavior is good, not when it is not.

They have to learn you mean business otherwise they just take the piss!

Once he comes out the tantrum he apologises off his own back & when we ask him why he behaved in that way he doesn't know, he genuinely doesn't seem to be aware as to what caused it or why.

I actually thought about taking him to Doctors as nothing works.
We've tried "naughty step" previously & all that happens is he gets on & off step comes to lounge door, screams, gets returned to step, gets up etc etc. meanwhile my neighbours enjoy my devil child screaming his lungs out!

It may be that he is going through one of those periods when they get testosterone surges - both my older 2 were very quick to lose it aged 6-7. DS2 is still 7, still very volatile, and genuinely seems to lose control them is sorrowful and apologetic.

However your son's behaviour does sound extreme and I would agree that some simple ground rules / withdrawal of privileges is sensible.

If it's hormonal then it isn't forever BUT you still need to help him learn to deal with these overwhelming emotions or this reaction might become his default in future whenever he gets pissed off about things.

The detail needs to be something you and DH decide on and are both happy enforcing. We do a sticker chart with book/toy etc at the end of it as reward, and withdrawal of twice weekly DS time as punishment. Much of the time the threat of no DS is enough now!

You also need to try to keep calm yourself so you remove the reaction he is currently enjoying. Actually that's the bit I find hardest and DH really struggles with but "Don't get drawn in.." is frequently heard muttered in our house!

Same performance tonight. He was fine until bed time was mentioned & then he went berserk.
We have recently come back from holiday, where he slept in the same room as us for 2 weeks. Im wondering if jetlag & change of routine are adding to this?!

VERY difficult not to react when he's jumping up & down upstairs.

Angiebabes, I have no advice only sympathy.

my six year old dd has had me in tears tonight and I am not normally this emotional. Her constant misbehaviour has really worn me down. She so knows how to push my buttons, and I bet your little one does too with you. I sent her to bed with no dinner which feels really victorian to me but I felt if she was around me I would say something so bad to her I would regret it. She is very tired at the moment, like they all are at the end of term, but her attitude has been going on since the start of yr.1.I need to learn how to deal with her behaviour in a constructive way (not doing so great at the moment) so thanks for starting this thread. You are not alone.

She is really well behaved and polite at school too!

My son is the most pleasant well behaved child outside. We were complimented by an American couple on holiday over his behaviour!
His teacher at school cannot praise him high enough.
So why does he behave like this to us??
Last nights comment about me being the worst mummy ever really cut me to the core.
I despair.
And I really do feel your pain too...you sound like you're having as bad a time as us.
X

Could you video his bad behaviour and show it to him when he's calm (the evil cow in me would be telling him that you are going to show it to his teacher)

Ha ha have tried that. He looks at video horrified & says he doesn't like it!
I've threatened him with his teacher, he almost convulses!
He doesn't like people to know he's been in trouble or upset.
For example, if we have a tantrum
before going to school or going out, he is desperate to know if his face his red, will they know he's been crying?!! It bothers him so much.
Jekyll & Hyde ?!

Then in that case I think I would follow through and show it to his teacher!

I agree with carocaro-good advice.

The whole thing drags me down. Trying to get ready to go out. "I don't want to go out" tried to reason that we had to go out...WW3 and 20 mins later after ignoring him, he apologises.
I shouldn't have to wait 20 mins, he should be doing as I say when I say, or am I wrong in my thinking?
When I was a child my Mum was the boss, when she said something we did it, I'd never have got away with behaving how he does.
Rant over!

Of course you shouldn't wait! Be positive-get down to his level and tell him 'tough-I don't really care whether you want to go out-we are going now and you are coming if I have to carry you'!
(if you have tried the nice way with the rational explanation'.)
You don't need to walk on egg shells-he is 6 years old. He doesn't do it elsewhere because he knows he can't get away with it. He is getting away with it with you. I would sit him down with your DH when you are all calm and tell him that you are fed up with it and it is not going to continue. He can choose what to do when he is an adult in his own home and until that time he fits in with what you want because you all have to live together. Draw up a list of rules together with the most important things. Put a clock in his bedroom. Draw up a list of things he would like to do -they don't have to cost-play football for half an hour, go to the park, bake a cake etc and then if he keeps to the rules do something from the list.
Choose your battles-ignore the low level stuff-stick to the list drawn up together.

Going thru something very similar at the moment with my DD who is almost 9. Angelic out of the house, doing really well at school but in the house-tlaks to me, DH and her sister like dirt !! We have had several scenes today and I have threatened to cancel our holidays cos I really am dreading what it will be like. DH has put her to bed tonight, I was so upset I couldnt go up to her-sounds terrible I know but I just needed some time out.
I am feeling totally frazzled, out of my depth depserate.
None of this helos you I know but thanks for starting the thread and getting a dicsussion going. At least we all know we're not alone in this

Omg I'm so glad I'm not alone! My DS turned 6 in may but her behaviour has been getting progressively worse since the start of school. I'd hoped it was a phase due to new routine/stresses etc but that hope faded ages ago.

We've tried naughty steps - 6 minutes turns into half an hour of her screaming and kicking, not to mention the physical aspect of trying to actually get her on the step - when we give her the warning she doesn't care and acts worse but then when we say we're putting her on the step, she acts like the step is made of molten lava and screams and pleads with us not to put her on, when that doesn't work she kicks and punches us with bared and gritted teeth.

we tried reward charts - if she doesn't get enough stickers for her reward she cries out of utter sadness and knows it's her own fault, which makes her more sad, if she does get her reward she seems to have worse behaviour as soon as she gets it, so the 1st day of the next week she gets no stickers at all. We've tried saying she needs to have 2 weeks of stickers for a prize but that didn't work either, she seemed to feel it was unachievable so didn't even try.

We've tried grounding, she doesn't seem bothered, just keeps asking how long she's still grounded for and looks forward to not being grounded, but it doesn't serve as a deterrent. Last week (first week of school holidays up here in Scotland) we went on a day-by-day basis, bad attitude/behaviour or rudeness (the cheek and utter disrespect is really the main problem at the mo) meant grounded the next day. We started the week with big plans of exciting things to do, but she was grounded every day. My dad came to stay for a week and her behaviour has been fantastic (which meant DS stepped into the demon child role for the week) which shows she can do it, she just refuses to for us.

We've threatened with cancelling of birthday parties (her own and others), and have refused to let her go to 3 in the last 6 months or so, as well as other outings. She knows we WILL follow through with our threats.

I just don't know what else there is, I really try hard to remain calm and try to put her in another room/space to calm down, and once she gets there and has had a moment, that DOES help, for a bit. But we have the same struggle getting her to a chill out place as we do to a naughty step. And the calmness doesn't last.

After she has calmed down she's SO sorry, and sad, until something else kicks her off.

Bedtime is a really important one. We have to stick to 7.30, which is a shame coz all her friends are still playing outside and she has to come in for bed. If she stays up beyond that, god help us the next day!!

All her friends have seen her tantrums and when she starts they just look at her weird and pack up their stuff to leave, coz they know she's not going to be playing for a while.

She's better at school but recently (after we'd had a bad morning) she punched (!) 2 of her classmates so I had to see the principal. I felt awful and could only apologise and ask for any suggestions they might have in dealing with it. They were (of course) useless!

Any other hints or advice anyone else can give I would LOVE to hear, I feel like I've tried everything and have nowhere else to turn!

I DO feel better knowing I'm not alone though- the other mums at school and my street all seem to have perfect kids and perfect relationships with them, so I was starting to think it was just me

Ps sorry so long!!

I went thru pretty much the same thing with my dd when she was four. Turned into a complete monster despite previously being such a well behaved child.

I think alot of it was down to not being challenged enough. She was still at pre school but more than ready to start primary school and the frustration was just to much.

I did find putting her on omega 3 tablets helped as did multi vitamins.

She still does get difficult and stroppy especially when she's finding things easy and boring and doesn't wanna do them (cue hours of tears and messing around over school books) but overall things have improved dramatically.

I would ask your ds if everything's ok at school is he finding things too hard/easy and after trying so hard to comply at school it's all to much when he gets home. How is he sleeping? Tiredness can account for alot as can how well/badly they r eating. Us he eating his lunches at school? I wish u luck op it's a nightmare to see our beautiful children turn into devil spawn over night :(

OP how do you and your husband speak to him?

I find a calm and totally unchallenging tone works best. I'm saying that as you have mentioned several times about your own mum 'being boss' and am wondering if this is the stance you are taking?

We don't know what a long lie is at the weekend, he's up by 7am!

Sorry but that made me laugh!

What time do you expect him to be up? 7am is not early. That's normal.

You said lots about your sons behavior. I'd be interested to hear about yours and I hope you don't use names like demon in front of him.

It is a lot to do with body language. When you have DCs like that you get anxious when you need to issue instructions and they know it-it gives then the power. This is reinforced by the fact that you have tried lots of things.
It is now very difficult to have the correct body language that tell them, I am perfectly calm and utterly confident that you will do as you are told-tough if you don't happen to like it!
Since you are not going to be able to do it, you need to discuss tactics with DP and stick to one method-even if it appears not to work at first. It may take some time.
If you walk on eggshells they know it-not the sort of power a 6 yr old should have.

You do have to be realistic-7am isn't early to a child.

I'm struck by the extreme good behaviour he shows in public in contrast to that at home. Also by the fact that this behaviour has only recently started. Is he having to "let it all out" at home, because he's trying so hard to be perfect outside of home? If so, perhaps his behaviour is an expression of anger/exhaustion? Sounds like you want him to fit in with what you want (i.e. wanting a long lie in at weekends - he has to wait until you're ready for him or else he's naughty) Perhaps you need to meet him on his own territory a bit?

He sounds like he's anxious about being on his own at bedtime / early morning for whatever reason. Perhaps he could do with some reassurance?

Naughty step / punishments don't work as threats when children are in the middle of a tantrum (at least they don't for DD) - they are so wound up they can't be rational at any rate.

He sounds like he needs help managing his emotions / unpleasant feelings so he doesn't get so angry and upset in the first place. Have you tried sympathising with him and talking about his feelings - for example if he doesn't want to leave the house, ask him why? say for example "I know it's a pain and you don't want to come, but we'll only be 15 mins and if you're good you can have a treat when you get back (only something small like fav TV programme, a promise of some 1 to 1 time etc).

AmberLeaf - My husband and I speak to him on his level, in a calm tone, & we certainly do not call him a "Demon"

When I said about my own Mum what I was trying to get accross was that I never challenged my Mum they way my son challenges me. I knew when I had pushed her too far, and also knew bad behaviour was not rewarded.
My point in saying this was to put across the fact our son doesn't seem to realise this with us.

I also said he was up by 7am, that was me trying to be diplomatic...he is normally up before 6.15/6.30am. It doesn't matter what time he goes to bed, others had suggested putting him to bed later, that didn't help, it just made him grumpy the next day....all day!

Noideaeither - We don't try to make our son perfect outside, his behaviour in company or out in public is his doing, he knows how to behave, and is polite etc, we have never had to speak to him about his behaviour when out & about.
I don't expect him to "fit in with us" my point about early rising was that he gets up so early, actually 6.15am ish as I said to AmberLeaf, and he cannot understand that he shouldn't wake everyone else up just because he wants to be in control. This is what the whole thing is about....he wants to try and control us. (bearing in mind we have tantrums at bedtime and sometimes its 10pm before we get "us" time, having been on the go since 6.15am!)

We have issues at bedtime routine with some nights him refusing to give kisses as part of normal bedtime routine, if I play along with him he goes into one almighty tantrum and demands kisses, kicks off and refuses to give me them....it's like he wants to be in control of what happens & when!
It's hard to explain, and forgive me if what I've said sounds bad, but I'm trying to explain the best I can, how he is.

Exoticfruits - Once he has come out of the mood/tantrum he admits he has no idea why he kicked off, which is what made me wonder if this was a hormonal surge. He apologises off his own back, says sorry, etc etc until the next one!

Wheresmycaffeinedrip - He is currently on school holidays, and we have had no problems with him at school, he has lots of friends, loves school and is quite happy there, so I know it is not that. I will try the omega & multi vitamin tabs, he eats very healthy, lots of fresh fruit & veg, fish etc, thankfully eating is not a problem, and never has been. But those tablets might help.....so thanks for that info.

Cockoff - He never had issues with being alone or going to bed, but as I said in an earlier post, we had returned from holiday where we all were in a large room sleeping and his routine was out of sorts as well as possible jetlag, so this could be why he doesn't want to go to bed on own, as when on holiday we were in same large bedroom, and he probably got used to us beng there while he fell asleep.

MrsB1 & SquidgeyMiller - Thank God I am not alone, Thank you for sharing your woes, it makes me feel better knowing I'm not alone and also helps me feel a bit better that what we are doing is same as you.

I am not trying t have the perfect child....there is no such thing. But friends who have witnessed his behaviour inside our home cannot believe this is the same child as the one they think is so well behaved when we are at their homes, or out for dinner etc.

I suppose we should be very thankful he is a very well behaved child socially, as I have seen some really badly behaved kids when we are out, and I am so thankful our son isn't like that.

I don't think it's too much to expect his behaviour to be better at home, or for him to speak to us with a wee bit of respect, yes he is only 6, but I don't think its acceptable to speak to us like dirt, to growl and snarl his teeth, slam doors, throw stuff, and kick off when something doesn't go his way. When he kicks off he screams, shouts, stamps feet and stares you out to see how you will react.......he is very clever!

Yes, we try not to react, but it is not always possible, especially if he is causing damage or is at risk of breaking something, like the other day when one of his cars missed a glass unit by inches!!

he cannot understand that he shouldn't wake everyone else up just because he wants to be in control. This is what the whole thing is about....he wants to try and control us

I will be blunt but because its easier to be straight forward. I hope you don't take offence as none is intended.

I think that the above is your perception of what's behind his behavior.

My initial thought from your first post was that you see yourself as in some sort of battle with your son.

You saying the above says you think it is a battle for control?

That's why I suggested a calm and unchallenging tone. If a child is naturally willful then it can take a lot to calm down!

You say he is good at school and elsewhere but not at home?
At school I imagine he is spoken to/instructed in calm but authorative tones without the teacher feeling any emotion.

I woud suggest you do your best to not see this as being about control and remember your son is taking your lead.

I do think he likes to be in control, as we have had chats about him not being happy if such & such at school wants to play a game & he wants to play another....he likes to feel in control/in charge.
He is always trying to negotiate to get things his way. It's not about me trying to be in control, not at all.

All I want is for him to accept he is 6 and when Mummy & Daddy say its bedtime, then causing mayhem is only upsetting him.....the outcome is still the same...bedtime!
The same with his behaviour....when he gets told off etc it is for his own good, as his behaviour is not acceptable.

I speak calmly to him, telling him we don't behave that way in this house etc, but he screams and won't listen. He gets himself into such a state with his temper that there is no point trying to calm him, it only makes him worse. The only thing that works is ignoring him, which as I said isn't always possible, and when we do ignore he shouts and screams asking why we are ignoring him!!! Again, in my opinion it's a control thing.

It's very difficult to put across on here what I mean about control.

He sounds frustrated?

Is his bedtime routine rigid?

Does he get upset if he's doing something he wants to do and someone else gets in on it or tries to change it?