6 year old son turning into demon!

[Angiebabes]

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Our DS is 6 and his attitude & behaviour is grinding us down.

If he doesn't get his own way he starts screaming, shouting & growling (actually baring teeth)
His moods are awful, it's like treading egg shells some days.
If something doesn't suit he will go in one almighty tantrum, which can last anywhere between 10 minutes & 2 hours...nothing brings him out it, but himself. He will then apologise for his behaviour. Which I suppose is something, but it's seriously affecting our family life.
My husband & I both feel like he's turning us into people we are not.

He gets up early in the morning & proceeds to wake us by entering our bedroom, it doesn't matter how many times he's told not to, he still does it. We don't know what a long lie is at the weekend, he's up by 7am!
It wouldn't matter if there was a lock on the door, he would shout until we got up.

Last night he refused to go to bed. A 2 hour screaming hysterical tantrum ensued. He was ignored, put bs k in room etc, nothing worked.
He screamed at me that "I was the worst mummy ever" last night.
He had my husband & I in tears as its getting beyond a joke. (he was upstairs causing havoc so wasn't aware how upset we were)

This is a new thing, he's very very well behaved out and about, we get compliments about his behaviour from strangers & friends, but when he gets home it's like the devil has swapped places with him.

His behaviour, lack of respect for us & disregard for discipline is grinding me down.

We have done all the consequence routine, sending him to his room, taking his DS, cars, fav toys away, sweetie ban etc, it's not like we don't discipline him. We do, and he knows it's going to happen as he is told, his reply is "I don't care"

I'm at my wits end.

I'm not a soft touch, but he pushes & pushes to the limit. When I was his age I would know when enough was enough. My Mum had a look & a tone.
Nothing works with him.

Is this an age thing???

Ignore as much as possible and make sure that you talk about it afterwards. When he shouts and screams asking why you are ignoring don't say a word-don't get eye contact, reason or engage in any way.
On the plus side he does it with you because he feels safe enough-he knows you love him whatever-other people won't put up with it. On the negative side he knows how to push your buttons!
It is about control-a battle of wills.

I do think he likes to be in control, as we have had chats about him not being happy if such & such at school wants to play a game & he wants to play another....he likes to feel in control/in charge

That sounds more like he wants to be in control of his world not necessarily you!

He likes his own way-most people do-it is a hard lesson to learn that it doesn't work that way!

His bedtime is the same every night S-T on a school night. We have a routine of shower/bath, story in bed and then he sleeps.
Frid & Sat he gets to stay up later, maybe an hour later.
During school holidays (as we are currently on) he is staying up hour later than his school routine.

He's quite happy to involve others if they want to join in if he's playing etc, but if it's not his way it's no way!!
He has ideas & will tell you if he doesn't like them.

Exactly! Lol

Sorry...exactly was in reply to "Exoticfruits" posting.

And yes I agree as my sister treats her family whichever way she chooses but her friends much differently. As friends won't stick around if she treats them badly. Family is family!

He reminds me of her at times. Oh why oh why!! Lol

"He gets up early in the morning & proceeds to wake us by entering our bedroom, it doesn't matter how many times he's told not to, he still does it. We don't know what a long lie is at the weekend, he's up by 7am!"

It sounds to me like he really wants to be with you - perhaps he is feeling a bit excluded from your family? Most kids that age are up by 7. Maybe you could let him into your bed or at least find another activity for him. Letting him into your bed might at least let you get a bit more sleep and would allow him to feel part of the family unit.

I'm no expert and I'm having a few problems with my son of a similar age so I totally empathise, but your posts do sound like you and your partner have set yourselves up in opposition to the third member of your family (you don't mention other DCs?). I can only imagine how that makes a six year old feel.

Schmee - Quite the opposite actually!
If you read back you'll see I said he actually is up by 6.15am.
Our son is very loved, is not an inconvenience & wants for nothing, but is by no means spoilt.

I have tried to express my problem with his behaviour as best as I can but it's not easy to explain thoroughly, which has led to me being upset by a couple of replies.
I would do anything for my son, he is the reason I breathe. I want the best for him, he's well mannered, polite, very caring & eager to please. The issue we have is his behaviour in the family home. Refusing to go to bed and causing a screaming match every night since we got back our holiday. (which I mentioned a couple of posts up)

He wants to do things his way, and doesn't appreciate or listen to us when we try to explain our reasons for our decisions.

He doesn't seem to grasp bad behaviour results in unhappy Mummy & Daddy & also that he loses rewards.
He actually has said he doesn't care!!
And I know lots of you will think this is pathetic, but I've been honest, so shall continue to be....He actually entices us to take toys away,....it's like he gets a kick out of it! It's very difficult to explain & I've tried the best I can to explain it.

It's the same with bedtime, he refuses to give me goodnight kisses then goes mental when taken up to bed without them...screaming at top of voice "I didn't get kisses" we cannot win!!

I don't think any of it is pathetic. You are obviously having a hard time.

It all sounds like attention seeking behavior and he doesn't seem to care if its positive or negative attention that he gets from you.

Darling son just got up screaming he doesn't want to be in bed.
Asked to go back to bed....NO!! Was screamed at us.
Parting shot was " I hate you Mummy"

How words hurt!

Sorry, but I'm finding this difficult, his bedtime routine which was never a problem until we had 2 weeks holiday is now adding to the stress of his behaviour at home.

My son is autistic and sleep is a massive issue as in he doesn't do much of it.

He could easily be awake until 1am but the rules are he has to go to his room and stay in there by a certain time which depends on day of the week.

He is allowed to read or play quietly in his room as long as he stays there. He still comes to find me sometimes but now I've accepted he generally isn't going to go to sleep its much less stressful.

The following is what I am trying with my 5 year old tantrum-ridden daughter at the moment and it seems to be slowly working: when she has a tantrum, for example if the lego falls over or she doesn't like me saying no to something, I let her scream it out. I don't ignore her/send her away/leave the room, I watch her and wait. I will speak to her once she speaks to me in a normal voice. Until then if she shouts at me or demands what it is she wants I say in a friendly but matter of fact voice that I will talk to her when she has calmed down. That often makes her scream louder but I say it again if I need to and just wait it out. I do not help her with the lego or give her what it is she wants. When she has calmed down we either talk, or she asks for help or just gets up as if nothing has happened and gets on with what she was doing. I give her a cuddle if she needs one but I do not ask her to say sorry.

It has taken a long time for me to get to the stage where I can stay calm enough to do this. Previously her anger and frustration would floor me and I would usually end up getting cross back. It has taken quite a lot of reading around (loads of advice and perspective gleaned from Mumsnet threads) and thinking about (and dealing with) my own issues and the sort of parent I want to be to get to this stage.

What helps me to stay calm is taking the attitude that this is normal (it is for her and many other children going by the many MN threads I have read), that she will get over it and that nothing can be achieved until she has completely calmed down. She often claims she has calmed down when she clearly hasn't (she is still physically tense/has an off tone of voice) and I tell her I don't think she has. She usually kicks off again but eventually she does calm down, her body relaxes and she talks in a normal voice.

I think the key elements of this approach are that by staying with them you are acknowledging that there is a problem (because there is quite clearly a problem of some sort) and showing that you care. They have something they need to communicate to you and don't have the ability/words to do it so they need your help. You help by giving them a safe space to process their fierce emotions while neither taking over the situation nor giving into them.

It takes time and energy but I think ultimately it is the best way to help her master her emotions. I have noticed that if this happens in the morning we have a much better day as she seems to either get if out of her system or by going through the process realises that she can actually cope with frustration.

I think you should forget what you think things were like in your childhood, they were different times, you only have your current reality. (And also take what your mum says with a pinch of salt as memories get distorted over time).

Phrases like discipline, punishment and attention-seeking really annoy me. If you treat your child well, set him a good example and say yes when appropriate and no when appropriate then any undesirable behaviour needs investigating not punishing. Kids need attention, their need for attention and love is second only to their need for food, warmth and physical safety.

If he's having a melt down there's nothing u can do ir say that's gonna snap him out if it and any attempts at communication are just gonna feed the tantrum. There is good advice above, just let him scream it out and just be there for him when he's calmed. It's hard I know cos they can keep it up for hours but negative attention is attention none the less and it takes time to realize it's not a productive way. I would also be extra concious of praising everything he does well and nicely. I'll get told off but have a very un MN {{{hug}}}} :)

Apologies if I'm repeating stuff that has already been said here as I have only skim read some of the replies but I wanted to post as your son sounds very similar to mine. I too absolutely want the best for my son and for a long time I felt that consistent assertive (not harsh) discipline was the way to go. I reasoned that he couldn't be in control as much as he wanted to be if he was to grow up as a well rounded, social and successful teenager/man. I was always thinking of the consequences for the next stage of his development. Added to this I had the 'hazy' memories of my parents and in-laws who claimed that their children didn't (i.e. me and OH etc.) behave like this. Also, my perception of my childhood is that my parents were the bosses and I did as I was told. Do you know what? Memories can play tricks on you.
Anyway, as I said I was doing the whole assertiveness and consistent punishment. My son hated it, I hated it. And it led to us getting into spiralling battles for control. In the end I decided enough was enough and I stopped with the constant punishment. Best thing I ever did of rmy sanity and his. I know a lot of people will disagree with me but I can only go on my own experience. I relaxed. I stopped shouting at him (most of the time ) for bad behaviour and accepted that he was still learning and that I should explain to him why we don't do things instead. I let my son get on with it where tantrums are concerned and as long as he isn't going to hurt himself (which he doesn't anyway - they're not that dramatic) I don't intervene. Even if he hits me, I wait. Once he has calmed down I talk to him about it then. I let him have control over as many things as reasonable in his life and I try not to clock watch or hurry him as this just means things take longer in the end (not that I'm saying you do this but it was a big factor for me and my son). I know this sounds massively indulgent but I'm a firm believer that we don't have control over anyone so we have to work with the type of children we have. He has improved TONS. If your son comes and apologises after he has done these things it sounds like he has feelings out of his control so punishment is at best, pointless, at worst (like my son) making him much worse. It takes a lot of patience to do this and I'm not great at it. I do still have days when I shout and shout at him but I know that I'm guaranteed to have a bad day with him when this happens. I hope I haven't just interpreted your situation in my terms and been no help at all but just to say I totally understand your frustrations and motivations for handling things the way you do.

PS he doesn't hate you, that's why he comes to you first thing in the morning. Exhausting but accepting that that's the ways things are for a while longer may help.

oops. Sorry for the lack of paragraphs! If you can get through that you deserve a medal!

Have you heard of the book Calmer Easier Happier Parenting? There was a MN webchat a few weeks ago with the author.

I am just reading it at the moment and unlike other books it really tells you exactly how to approach situations.

I have a 4.9 year old DS (only child) and I am conscious of perhaps getting into patterns where we adapt our behaviour to avoid meltdowns and am thinking about the family dynamics etc.

Have you heard that DCs like to do this with those they love the most in order to "test" how the world works? He needs to know that he can say anything and you will still love him but he needs to know that these things are not ok to say "I hate you" etc.

Do you think that you spend enough time doing what he wants to do? Really? I am not sure that I/we do . I find that quality/chilled time = cooperation later on.

op, I do believe you have just described my 7 yr old DS. The only difference is my DS will hit and punch anyone who gets in his way.
I have never heard of testosterone surges and I am going to look into that straight away.
I have an appointment at DS' school tomorrow to discuss the situation at present and see if there is an assistance/help/advice they can offer.
There is the option of ADHD testing on my son aswell as behaviour therapy and social skills workshops as my son isnt very good at making/keeping friends.
Maybe if you go to the school they could offer some similar help/advice.
Iknow I haven't helped but sometimes it is just a reassurance to know we aren't alone.
I have a theory that our childrens' generation are a victim of an 'I want' society and as human beings we have lost the respect and discpline our parents and grandparents grew up with.
I hope you get some help with your DS, I really do know what you are going through.

Thanks everyone.

I'm going to try him on Omega 3 & multi vitamins as "wheresmycaffeinedrip" suggested as they helped her child, so anything is worth a go.

Blubell78 - Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone. I had tried to explain it best I could, easier in audio than in text. This whole tantrum situation has started recently, and the refusing to go to bed is only since we returned from holiday.
I think he got used to the fact we all were in one bedroom on holiday & now he is back to routine, sleeping in his own bedroom.
Last night he again refused to give me kisses goodnight, but he didn't kick off and go all out like the previous few nights, he did have a tantrum but it lasted far less than other nights, so we wonder if that is him settling back into life outwith holidays.
He does apologise off his own back as soon as he's calmed down and realised what he's done, but I really wish he would think that way before he does it, then it would make for a happier home. But guess thats too easy! LOL
I'm fortunate that he is extremely well behaved at school & in public, think thats why it's harder to accept, it's like we leave our son at the front door and "monster child" enters our home.......does that make sense?

LapsusLinguae - Will take a look at that book, thanks for suggesting it. We try to do as much as he wants to do when we can, but realistically we probably don't, life, work, housework etc always get in the way, although on our holiday it was what he wanted every day!!

clmjmb - Hope you get some help for your son. Our son, while going through this tantrum period, isn't lashing out at anyone. He behaves like an angel at school, has lots of friends and gets high praise from his teacher for his behaviour....ironically!

I second what Bluebell has said. I have a 4.3 year old ds who sounds exactly like yours and doesn't respond to punishment and reward. I have to constantly be on the ball with him trying to jolly everything along and make it sound exciting just so he will cooperate. I've concluded that this is the way he is and I've just got to deal with it the best I can.

The only thing I don't fuck about with is bedtimes now. I need my evenings to myself and will not give in to him anymore. We spent two weeks with him running rings around us messing around till gone ten saying he didn't want to go to bed. If he starts this now I either try and make bedtime sound exciting by saying we will play Eye Spy for a little while in bed or something else and if that doesn't work then I go for the hard approach by sitting in his doorway and not letting him out of his room until he goes to sleep. He will moan and kick off but this generally works as long as I remain ignorant to his demands.

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