Struggling with DD (6). It is upsetting us all. Any advice on what might help would be most gratefully received!

[MyCatIsAStupidBastard]

My DH and I are struggling with my DD who is 6 and I really don?t know what to do.

She has always been feisty and quite argumentative and we go through phases every few months where it just gets worse and worse. She ignores us and ignores us and ignores us. Sometimes (quite often) the only way you get through is by shouting. She wont try anything we ask. We know she can have dry nights, but only if there is a reward for doing it ? so she will do 5 days to get a doll/toy/whatever, get the reward then immediately be wet again ? for weeks until we reward again. We want her to try cutting up her food (she is 6 nearly 7).. she will argue until she is blue in the face that she wont do ? she would rather have a row that give it a go (I know she can do it, I have seen her and shown her).

She is lazy, rather than get herself something from the kitchen (about 10ft from the front room) she will shout through and unless we get it, will go thirsty or hungry rather than get up (she often goes thirsty and hungry, I don?t mind if she makes the effort ? but the mouthful I get for not doing it immediately is unbelievable).

It really is her way or the high way. I try to talk quietly to her about it (why didn?t you do what Daddy asked, why are you shouting at me because I don?t have any biscuits left) and when she shouts sorry (which she invariably does) asking her if she knows what she is sorry for (never does, even when I try to explain it).

These are just a few examples. My suspicions are that we have, unwittingly, cast her in the role of the ?naughty one? (we have a 3yr old DS who is an easy child by anyone?s standards), that she is jealous of DS (they do play well together and don?t fight particularly ? just the odd squabble) and perhaps we are trying to get her to grow up more quickly than she wants to. But just for once I would like everything not to be a huge great fight.

But I don?t know what to do ? how do I get her (and us) out of this ?naughty one? role. How do I get her to stop ignoring us completely? And, if I am honest, our reaction is not good ? sometimes we really really shout, she has had the odd smack (not many) and a lot of sendings to her room (these are not our instant reactions, but usually arise through sheer frustration after many attempts at talking calmly).

She is happy at school, she has friends, she eats well, she is always very witty, cuddly and very very lively.

If you have got this far without wanting to tell me to belt up and grow up, well done. So, other than telling me that very thing, please can you give me some practical advice on how we move on. I am upset, DH is upset and most importantly, DD is upset.

Err.. sorry. I knew it was long, but not quite THAT long !

Stop the rewards...stop the drinks in the evening.....and where stubborness and demanding is concerned, get some ear plugs and settle in for the long haul..

You will really have to stop the demanding, blackmailing behaviour your daughter is demonstrating before it becomes a completely massive problem..

You really need to be objective - best of luck xx

Thanks sixthsense. Just to clarify, we stopped the rewards a long time ago (on the bedwitting and anything really).

And I know that we will have to stop the blackmailing behaviour - we don't give in (she will often be in her room screaming for an hour and a half - I kid you not, and we don't give in and she doesn't get to come down, sometimes until the next morning - yet she will do the same again 2 days later). Some advice on how we do that calmly would be good too.

You are right of course, we do need to be objective. Not easy when you are being shouted at and called names. An hour or two of that would test the patience of a Saint.

Ok

Being wet at night cant be helped by the child, all the star charts and cajoling in the world won't help. On mob so can't link but google eric, a website on continence in children.

Get a hearing test done

Stop the shouting and smacking. 321 magic is a great book to give strstegies instead

Strategies, sorry

What are the punishments - you put her in her room for a couple of hours and sometimes til morning? Is there any smacking (from her or from anyone else)?

sorry Cat - hope i didnt sound like I was preaching :)

My DD has been there and so Ikw youre coming from,

I think you have to mentally stay light hearted in your approach....

Random is right, bed wetting is a hard one to master and one my DD spils up with and she is now 10. ..... 7pm is the last drink and 8.30 bed time - with a quick wee befroe she goes..

and clear routine and boundary for everything so nothing is a surprise - even at her little age I found DD had attitde and would get from laughing to screaming in a split second - it was my job not to follow that emotional roller coaster but to stay steady.

Name calling is not accpetable and is one that you could have a good behaivour chart for (over say a weeks period)

will keep an eye on your thread with interest xx

Thank you.

What I dont understand about the bed wetting is that she CAN do it, IF she gets a reward. I have read the enuresis sites and talked to the doctor about it and my understanding is that she wouldn't be able to do it at all if she wasn't producing the hormone. Having said that, I would rather tackle hers and ours behaviour first.

She has had a hearing test done (I thought of that a while ago) - she has perfect hearing.

Yes, will stop the shouting and smacking (smacking is rare, shouting is not). And am googling 321 Magic right now (thank you).

Watching with interest. My DD is younger. We're away for the weekend and this morning I wanted to jack it in and come home. Dh is so supportive - took them swimming to give me a break but I feel I really don't like her much at the moment!

Nb on mob apols for brevity

Subsequent posts are indicating she is searching out attention, so turn it round. Heaps of attention, praise, one to one when you can. Give her jobs to do, responsibilities, lay table, write shopping list, that kinda thing.

Get her to change her wet bed with help, no fuss though, or comments.

Good luck

What about the pasta jar thing? Pieces of pasta every time she does something good, however small, might get her out of the idea that she's always the naughty one. Plus, you can obviously remove one or more every time she's naughty. You could also use the complete ignoring of the shouting and ranting - don't respond at all, not even to ask her to speak nicely. Just tell her once that you can't understand her when she shouts and then pretend that your ears can't hear that voice. Earplugs might help

I've seen lots of kids like this and it is often because their parents think they understand more than they do - so the parents will reason with the child and that then makes them unsure of where they stand. Far better to be completely firm with every bit of bad behaviour - don't tolerate any of it, but be simple in your explanations. Develop 'the look' and 'the tone' to make sure she understands that no means no.

Walk away rather than explain. Don't engage with the tantrum. Check out supernanny for this. I think the naughty step is better for little ones though. Getting her to just 'come here and sit down' might be better. If she does what you want, don't go away, if she doesn't, do walk away.

I think if there is jealousy involved (very likely), one of the things you need to put in place is regular time with her - try setting aside 15 minutes every night without fail, to just spend with her doing what she wants (best at bedtime and best some reading). She needs to know that you will always be there for her, as it may be that fear of losing you is driving her need to control you.

I was told by the doctor that you should give children a drink at night because that's when they learn to control their bladder (although that's for daytime wetting).

Thanks sixthsense - it is so tough. I think I have issues of guilt not helping (I have to work full time so try to give attention when I get home - DH is the main carer).

My DM said similar to you actually, I need to be the steady one otherwise how will she learn to do the same - good to see it in black and white.

Random - No, the punishments don't usually last for hours (just sometimes she will scream and shout for hours, regardless of what we do - talk, sit with her - she has always been like this, as a baby she screamed and screamed, as a toddler her tantrums could go on for 2hrs). BUT, we do need to get perspective again - I know that our reaction is fueling hers (and vice versa, but she is only 6 so we need to do the right thing).

I don't want to give the impression that all is hell. We have happy times, a lot. But we seem to have a lot of time in this roller coaster.

The more I right and read though, the more I can see that we (DH and I) are not helping in the slightest.

right = write

Thanks fedup - You are right, it is attention. I will try the 15 mins thing (DH and I take it in turns to put the DC to bed so when he is doing DS I will do more than put the tea on or watch TV with her).

Cat, My DP had a tough time with DD particularly the rages that came form nowhere. I really could have written your post a few years ago....so stay strong, nobody has all the answers.

I said to DP - "when DD shouts, remain calm and even, like a kite, try and bring her back down to somewhere manageable" - hormones are starting and they probably truly dont know why they are angry.

Incidentally - how much sleep does your DD have....I found that once I had regulated DDs sleep pattern to at least 11 hours even now at 10 she is a dream...If she slips below 10 hours for more than a few days the anger comes back

It makes a big difference knowing that DH is the main carer - he should hold the key to why this is happening as he spends much more time with her.

She is possibly punishing you for 'leaving' her - it's working as you are feeling guilty and that is like telling her she is right to be angry. She isn't right of course - but she needs to understand that. Is DH helping her see this?

I love your name OP

I hope this doesnt come across as being judgemental but I really think you need to stop shouting- by shouting you are teaching her that shouting is acceptable behaviour.
I coped by adopting a monotone, unemotional voice and gritting my teeth . Its hard but repeat calmly what you would like her to do - she has three chances and then you step in and the toy she is bashing (for example) is removed. I think 1-2-3 magic is similar (havent read it) . They realise there are consequences and eventually my DC didnt bother waiting for 3 .They knew I meant business!
The most important thing is to be consistent - you and DH .
If she has a tantrum -ignore it . No cuddles,cajoling,talking - go off and have a cuppa - eventually she will discover she has no audience !

sixthsense - she has around 10hrs sleep (8ish until after 7ish). And yes, DH really struggles with her - he can deal with DS a lot better (although when it is just DH & DD they are fab together) - Family dynamics are great aren't they??

fedup - yes, DH should hold the key to a degree - but she has been like this when I have been at home and DH working (in her life I have had about 3yrs at home with her with maternity leave and in between jobs). I've been working full time for about 2 1/2yrs now.

Although funny thing just now - she was outside fighting with DS. I went out and calmly told them to come inside and kept calm even when she refused to come in (I had to sort of frog march her, I hasten to add, without shouting or hurting her - then hold the door open on the conservatory which she was trying to then shut and lock on us - she is a bloody handful I can tell you!) I kept calm, told her to calm down (and DS) and it was all over much much quicker than normal.

I have a six year old dd who can be a total pita (and always has been) and a three year old ds who has, in comparision, always been a lot easier.
But my dd would never push to the extent that yours does.
If I say I am going to do something, then she knows that I will.
An example of this is, she was having a total melt down in a diy store. She had with her a hello kitty bag. I told her if she did not stop, it would be going in the nearest bin. She didn't and it did.
But the other side of the coin is I will give her loads of spontanous affection, if I pass her in the kitchen, I'll drop a kiss on her head. I let her know I love her at least ten times a day. My husband takes this one stage futher and if she starts to get upset will hug her and this will calm her down nine times out of ten.
So my advice would be:
Ignore the tantruming as much as possible but if you do threaten to do something, make sure you do.
For the wetting, I'd be putting her in the older kid night time pants but making no other comment.
And lastly try and give her as much random/spontanous affection as you can. Make it a habit to let her know that you love her, espcially if she is playing nicely, helping out, being kind.
Reward the good, ignore the bad.
Good luck xx

I think it really helps and gives you confidence to know that you have a strategy to deal with the behaviour and wierdly I think DC like this actually like knowing there are boundaries in place even if they do try to bash into them - DD was like this and the most stubborn child ever . She is a lovely teenager now - still stubborn though

Thank you fridakhalo (I have a picture of you in my mind as an attractive but slightly hirsute lady.. ). Taken on board and will definitely give a lot more affection (I think I do anyway, but more could not hurt).

Totally agree on the night time pants - if she is as stubborn as my DD she will be dry and not wear them !

Teapig - I have high hopes that we are getting all of this now and that teenage years will be a breeze (living in fantasy land I know, but it helps in the darker moments!)

Aside from apallingly messy rooms mine arent too bad !
I just shut their doors and have a