1 year old - isolated?

[weeonion]

hi folks!

I would really appreciate any advice / opinions you can give me on this.

I have a sis in law who has dd of 1 year old. 1 week ago they moved very close to where we live (they used to be at the opposite end of the country) so we didnt really spend time with them up until now . I am kinda close to her and she has said she thinks of me as her big sis (i dont!).

I know we all parent in different ways and use different approaches etc. I know that i am probably sticking my nose in - hence wanting to check it out here.

just 4 weeks after her dd was born, sis in laws mum died v suddenly. She was gutted obviously but from then on seemed to decide that her baby could not be around tension, emotion or stress. This also extended to the baby not being allowed to be stressed or upset itself.

i knew from visiting her on a couple of occasions before xmas that sis in law was quite insular. She had no experience with kids before her dd was born (neither of the couple had ever held a baby any younger than about 6months old) so it has been a big change. She has never went to meet any mums / join mother baby groups etc. She doesnt mix with other families with kids and doesnt want to meet / get to know any. None of their friends have kids but they havent seen them in a long time anyhow - since her dd was born.

Sis in law spends up to 6 hours through the day in their room with her dd - lying with her, feeding her, talking to her etc. This They have co-slept since birth. Her dh has not been allowed to share "their" room as he might make noise and disturb her dd. he said he does mind but thought that most other couples did this too. sis in law says she sees no reason for this sleeping / bedroom arrangement to change.

her dd doesnt like the buggy so they dont go out with the buggy for any longer than 30 mins. her dd doesnt like a sling - so they cant really travel / get about. her dd doesnt like buses or train doors opening so they have pulled back on public travel. they dont go out for family meals / lunches as her dd doesnt like a high chair. They dont tend to invite people to visit as her dd cries when she meets new people. they do online shopping as her dd doesnt like shopping.

her dd has NEVER played / interacted with another child (apart from 3 times with my dd who is 5 )- there just hasnt been an occasion to as she is only ever in her own house or out for a VERY short period of time. we have invited them to come and visit us but they are unable to as her dd can only nap in her mums bed, in her mums arms so the "windows of opportunity" are too short to make the 10 minute drive. we are welcome there and did visit last weekend but didnt actually see sis in law nor dd as they spent the 3 hrs snuggling in their room, as they do every afternoon

i have just found that her dd sat on her lap, not in a car seat and with no seat belt on either of them on their long journey to move houses. This was a drive of 12 hours - quite literally from one end of the country to the other. In torrential rain and storms. This was because her dd doesnt like car seats.

when she told me - i couldnt keep a poker face. I was shocked and really surprised but didnt say anything at that stage.

i think this is unhealthy for her dd and not good for sis in law. I am struggling not to open my gobby mouth and say that i think there is something more going on here as i know that risks our relationship.

what do you think??

I think you need to tread very carefully but I agree it is more than just individual parenting styles. Your SIL could be depressed of suffering from some kind of PTSD because of her mothers sudden death at a time when her emotions were all over the place. Her overprotective ness is more than normal. How do you help her? The only person you can reasonable approach is her DH but even then it's difficult.

She definitely sounds like something is wrong. Possible, most likely, mental health related - id say PTSD or PND. Can you speak to your brother about this?

I'd not have kept a straight face at holding baby in her lap to be honest. Something like that - no question of it being messed up!!!

hi SCM and Iggly.

i should have said - this is my dp's sister.

i have spoken to dp about my concerns months ago and he agrees with me. he might frame it in a different way than me but yep - he thinks something needs to be done. they key is we dont know what.

i have mentionned PND to her back in the early days- as it was something i had and tried to use the "this is how i felt / thought.. what about you". She has always said that no - she doesnt have anything like that. I also broached the subject gently with her dh a few months ago but TBH - he doesnt think there is anything unusual with her behaviour.

I do think it is partly because she / they have nothing and no-one to to compare it to.

When I had DS I had no one to compare to but didn't behave like that.

SCM - no neither did i but i had a bit more experience.

I was meaning more her dp - he doesnt see it as unusual but then he doesnt see any other mum and baby.

SCM - no neither did i but i had a bit more experience.

I was meaning more her dp - he doesnt see it as unusual but then he doesnt see any other family with a baby / 1 yr old.

How is her baby? Sounds like she is caring for her baby well apart from car seat issue.

sh77 - her baby is well fed and seems healthy - although she does seem to have frequent colds (that is one of the reasons given why her dd cant be outside)

we saw them over the weekend at a small party we had for dd (the planned one got washed out). they did come and visit which was lovely. sis in law spent most of the afternoon in our bedroom as she thought her dd would be stressed by the other kids and adults there. Which was true on the couple of occasions they came out. i felt for her dd because as soon as any other kid came near her - she was whisked away in case of infection or as her dad said to them - "dont come near dd, she is "fragile." Other kids , younger and older than her where allowed to roam a bit and play with toys. Not her dd, she was kept either on her parents knees or taken away to a quiet darkened bedroom.

i thought it was such a shame that her dd didnt get to do anything or mix with kids. i am not very patient i guess as i found it very very hard not to say something.

I wouldn't worry about a 1 year old not having much social contact - in my view they are happy with just mum/dad/granny etc at that age. But your sis-in-law sounds like she's coming up with excuses not to get out of the house which makes me think PND, anxiety problem of some sort.

The not wanting to put her in buggy/ car seat (presumably to avoid melt-down) makes me think that your sis-in-law is very very anxious about her DD becoming upset (again suggests some kind of anxiety disorder)

I don't know what you can do though, apart from keep communication between you open - could you offer to take her DD off her hands for the afternoon?

Don't think you can do much about the rest but have you actually pointed out that it's illegal not to have a child in a proper child restraint in the car.

Not to mention the fact it's bloody dangerous but if they knew they where breaking the law would that change things?

I guess its a good sign that they came to your house -
did know if they used the car seat
could you ring the relevant health visitor for your area - explain the issues - and suggest a visit?

hi CountOlenska. thanks.

I do worry about her dd not having any social contact. I know 1 yr olds may be happy with just their parents around but i do feel the dd should be exposed to more people and kids, not spending hours in darkened quiet rooms.

They will not do anything which their dd may cry at. This now includes the buggy, car seat, other children, a train door etc etc. I know i struggled to hear my dd cry and be upset but also knew that she would and had to be at times. my sis in law really cannot function when her dd cries or shows signs of upset. The child is not "allowed" to be upset. Her mum doesnt brush her dd teeth as she gets too upset. Where does it end???

I want to offer support and help out. At the weekend - I said how excited i was to be getting to know my niece and how we would be able to baby sit / look after her. The idea was kinda shot down quickly as her dd doesnt know us and doesnt go to sleep without being in her mums arms. We asked them to come round next saturday evening but they said they cant come to ours (or anyone elses) in the evening as their dd needs to feed and nussle for up to 4 hours to get her to sleep.

i know it is none of my business and yep - should just stay in the background and offer help if needed. problem is - i'm not very good at that!

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that actually I'd be worried about the lack of social contact too (we'll take it as read that the carseat thing is not good, to say the least).

I've had colleagues who, for cultural reasons, didn't like their wives leaving the house whilst they (the husbands) were at work, and certainly not with their DC in tow. So these women generally spent 22 hours a day (if not more) inside with their kids and never saw anyone else. On the rare occasions they came out with their husbands to work functions (BBQs mostly) the kids seemed really overwhelmed and terrified of all the noise/interaction/other kids. The fact that I saw this happen to more than one family made me think that the enforced isolation might have something to do with their behaviour. To be clear, these kids were born in the UK and so this sort of life was all they'd ever known.

I'd definitely second the advice of calling the health visitor and asking her to pop around - it sounds like your SIL is having problems coping. Hopefully they can help her to ease up a little as she does sound very anxious.

They dont have a doctor / health visitor yet as they are only in the area over a week. Could possibly speak to HV when they get one. Sis in law didnt "let' her HV visit her when they lived elsewhere (after initial couple of weeks).

They do know it is illegal to drive without baby in car seat. It came up at least once before when i refused to drive them in my car as they wouldnt put her in the car seat. They had to walk that time.

they got to ours at the weekend in a taxi - so car seats werent an issue.

How many months is the baby? I can see this may be okish for a 12 mo but 14/15 month old no chance! Is the baby mobile/walking?

I agree with others it sounds like the mother has severe anxiety and issues surrounding her bereavement. It is stressful when your DC get upset especially in public and I can see that it would make life easier to avoid those situations, but there comes a point when you just deal. It sounds like the mother can not get to this stage and is treating her child like a newborn not a toddler.

Re the car seat a friend of mine had a visit from SS as she was referred after an incident whereby her DS fell out of the buggy whilst he wasn't strapped in and had to be seen in A&E. I'm sure they would do the same if a car seat wasn't being used.

It really sounds like she is lonely and has no one to ask for advice. All babies have a stage where they hate the car seat for example but you ask friends and try things to get what works for you. It sounds like she has no support or help at all. Could you offer this? Maybe say 'yeah my DC was a nightmare in the car so we sang songs/brought a teddy/had a bottle' and that fixed it...

She sounds very lost and out on a limb and in time that will not be great for the baby.

Is she a different culture / religion? I have heard that things like car seats and in fact any sort of seat belts are not used at all in some countries. It is something to do with your life being in hands of god so when it's your time that's it a seat belt won't help you. Disclaimer - I know nothing about religion though!

I'd worry that this situation could get really unhealthy TBH - it sounds like your SIL is focusing all her energy onto her DD. It's just about ok at this age, but what about when she starts to walk, talk and further develop her own little personality? Is your SIL the type who will try to accept it when that happens, or will she become an obsessive mother who guilt-trips the child into thinking it's her fault mummy isn't happy?

It seems to me like this is a critical stage and that someone needs to say something. If your SIL feels close to you then it might fall to you to have a frank conversation along the lines of what is best for her and her DD. I applaud your self-control by the way, weeonion - I don't think I would have managed to get this far without saying something like 'kids catch colds, it's normal!' or other such tactful comments.

bettyanddon - she is not from a religion, culture or country that would be different around car seats. Her dd is not a baby - she is now 15 months and is cruising / walking.

i can see what you mean about her being lonely. i think she is but before she moved here - she did not want to mix with other mums / kids. I have a friend who lived not far from them and she wanted to meet up. sis in law NEVER met up or coffeed or chatted to other parents. she says that she finds other mums dull and unstimulating. Fair enough that not all parents will get on with each other but to brand everyone with that one idea seems a case of cutting off noses etc! She might not want to mix with others but I still think her dd should get a chance to.

At the weekend - she literally came in and went straight to our room with her dd. When she came out - she was quite rude to my friends and never made any effort with them (all of them she has met and got on well with in the past).

it is not that she wont ask for advice - she will and others have gently offered it. I have tried to use our difficulties / challenges in the past as a subtle way to get info across. When you try something like that - she changes the subject or will say something like - "yeah that worked for you but we are different so it wont for us."

Anyhow - shall just have to wait and see. I have thought ever since her mum died that sis in law was struggling and have offered as much support, time etc as i can.

I was looking forward to them living close by to see them etc. Shame.

It seems awfully backward that everything they are doing/not doing is to protect their baby when in fact they are risking her life/health.

I know it's probably a harsh way of going about it but has anyone actually sat down and pointed out the facts?

They don't put the baby in a carseat because she cries but if they have an accident there probably won't be a baby to protect from crying.

They won't brush her teeth because she cries but what will they do when she comes home at 4years old sobbing her heart out because she's being bullied at school/the park wherever due to having rotting/no teeth.

What about when she comes home crying saying she has no friends because she's been isolated from other children and doesn't know how to interact with them.

I think sommeone needs to do something because while it ok now, it sure as hell isn't going to be ok for that child as she gets older.

herrena - you are right. Since her mum died - everything has been poured into and onto this child. it is as if all attention and energy had to be focused on her dd, which is where my concerns started from. I dont think sis n law would be the kind to guilt trip her dd but more the not allowing her to grow up.

my self control is wearing out. I had to go outside at one stage at the weekend as i either wanted to cackle at them trying to keep an infection buffer around her or scream that their dd will not fall apart if another child touches her. It is my own bug-bear but i hate to hear pretty healthy kids described as fragile, especially little girls.

I tried to talk to her, saying how we went to baby / toddles groups/ classes and how much my dd loved them at that age - all the other kids and grown ups to watch and how much it helped socialise her (as we have no other family around). Sis in law doesnt see the point for her dd, as they play and chat all day.

Anyhow - things wont change in near future. i will bear this in mind

You might have to go with unsubtle means of conveying info if she's refusing to acknowledge subtle ones....

If you feel really strongly about this, I suggest that you and your DH work out a list of things you want to say and then arrange to go over and visit your BIL and SIL (it's important that they're both present). Sit down together and formally state your concerns. Try to keep it to the bare facts of what worries you and don't get drawn into quibbles over minutiae. Definitely leave them a printed list of your concerns for when they talk to each other about it later - maybe even include a few helpline numbers at the bottom which your BIL may be tempted to call. He can't be blind to the fact that his wife is struggling and seeing all the issues written out may cause him to realise the extent of the problem. Do tell your SIL that you care about her and that you're worried that she's not feeling as well as she possibly could be.

This will inevitably cause considerable upset and be emotionally difficult for everyone, but it sounds like you've tried hard to do this gently and that it's just not working.

Disclaimer: I have no experience in this area, but the above is what I'd consider in your situation. Hopefully someone more knowledgable here can offer their opinion on whether it's a good idea or not....

whoops, x-post!

It sounds very worrying I second seeing the hv once she has one.

She is not only isolating her daughter but herself too.

galliant - my dp did try and point out a couple of things. he was told in no uncertain terms by his sister to off.

i am worried about this kind of reaction - kinda why i havent just been blunt about it to her before now.
When anything is suggested - however gently, she gets angry and defensive. I honestly can imagine her reaction if i said any of what has been put here.

I have been a little bit like this, although nowhere near as extreme.
I didn't leave the house, or really put my dd down, for the first 12 weeks or so. I started going to a breastfeeding support group then which has been great, I've made some friends, gone on "play dates" and dd (9 months now) is starting to love interacting with the other babies. Going to that was the best thing I've done actually.
Dd screams in the car seat so I don't go in the car with her unless I really really have to, and I sit in the back with her and feed her if I have to. Would never ever take her out of the seat though. I can't bear to leave her alone when she's sleeping so she sleeps on me downstairs til I go to bed then we cosleep.
At our 6 month HV check up I told her how anxious I was feeling and now meet her once a month for a chat, and to talk about coping strategies etc. I might be going for cbt soon if she thinks I'm still struggling.
The key things for me have been support from my HV who's a star, and forcing my self to go out and do things - the bf group has been fab for that and I have a huge family who all want at shot of dd!
Your SIL is clearly struggling, probably with the death of her mum. If the health visitors are any good round your way I think giving them a call would be a good idea :)