Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Original poster

Help something is NOT RIGHT with my 4 year old

59 replies

Combinearvester · 31/05/2012 17:38

Previously he was a fairly reasonable sunny child with some mild delay which in the past 2 years levelled out.

There are no traumas / issues in the family and nothing out of the ordinary has happened.

In recent weeks he has without saying anything:

  • Occasionally wet himself
  • Drawn felt tip on himself, his bed and toys
  • Nicked a bottle of foundation and poured out out on the carpet in his room
  • Gone into the bathroom and eaten some soap
  • Damaged books in his room
  • Become more physically and verbally aggressive to peers at nursery and siblings including some physical behaviour which is really out of character.
  • Had the occasional massive and very physical tantrum when told asked to do time out.

All the quietly naughty sabotage things he has 'confessed' to fairly matter of factly when challenged.

Have asked him whether anything is worrying him / anyone being mean at nursery etc. etc., says no.

Any thoughts? Sorry about the lengthy post.

OP posts:
colditz · 31/05/2012 17:39

Ask the nursery if any of their routines have changed

Mobly · 31/05/2012 17:44

Well, though obviously out of the ordinary for your child, it's not particularly unusual behaviour for a 4yr old. He is testing boundaries and experimenting. I think 4 is the age where it is said boys have a surge of testosterone hence the aggressiveness. Also, he could've picked up some behaviour at nursery.

whyme2 · 31/05/2012 17:52

I think along the same lines as Mobly . It seems like normal boundry testing to me especially as it is over a few weeks.

It seems to happen now and again as children get older, like they have to keep testing things now and again to see if the same rules apply.

Original poster
Combinearvester · 31/05/2012 17:57

Thanks for the quick replies.

Nursery reckon its to do with starting school in Sep and they all go like that, but I'm not sure.

To be honest the aggressiveness is less worrying to me than the wetting and the weird secret sabotage stuff. I am concerned he can't express some sort of emotion.

Shall I keep it low-key and carry on with usual discipline methods, should I back off a little bit or should I do zero-tolerance?

My instincts are often on the slightly too strict side so I am guessing it would be better to carry on as before.

OP posts:
EdgarAllenPimms · 31/05/2012 18:03

i amazed at a child that didn't always eat soap, draw pen on things, and spill things he shouldn't...

the aggression is a concern on the other hand - are you trying any new strategy to cope? Immediate time out? sometimes they can slip into this sort of thing after a bit of being laxer than normal.

is his general health and sleep good?

Mobly · 31/05/2012 18:16

What are your usual discipline methods? If he's usually well behaved then yes continue what you're doing. Give it a month or so and then maybe consider changing tactics.

I'm sure the soap eating was a lesson in itself Grin

peachypips · 31/05/2012 18:38

Hi- my ds was 4 in january and we are going through the same things. He has, up til now, been a very well behaved and lovely little boy! We too wondered what had happened to him and whether he was upset about something, blah blah blah. Lots of people said about being worried about school and we were like you and didn't really feel this was it. After a few months of bad behaviour off and on that was totally out of character I concluded what mobley did above, and have just been reinforcing boundaries when it gets out of hand and riding it out. I think the fact that he's been lovely up til now shows his real character and he'll grow out of this phase.

dangerousliaison · 31/05/2012 18:38

I would be concerned at this, if out of the ordinary, to start behaving like this at 4. Is he bored or lacking in attention? as to be honest at 4 I would know where my dc is and unlikely to get upto such mischife without being checked.

dangerousliaison · 31/05/2012 18:42

one way around that is having buiscuits and ice lollies at home and when he cant go to the shop, maybe he could say to a friend come round mine for a buiscuit or ice lolly, then he will be less worried about fitting in. he could say Im not spending my money today as Im saving for X.

dangerousliaison · 31/05/2012 18:47

OOOps wrong thread sorry OP.

ihavequestions · 31/05/2012 19:27

I recommend Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. It explains (backed by research) why rewards and punishments (including time outs) aren't good in the long run even if they seem to work. Maybe trying the strategies he suggests would help your son.

www.amazon.co.uk/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-Rewards-Punishments/dp/0743487486/ref=cm_rdp_product

Original poster
Combinearvester · 31/05/2012 19:29

I take your point Edgar and he did do similar stuff when he was 2, but I kind of associate all those sort of things with 2 yo behaviour.

DangerousLiason Maybe I expect too much but I did think a 4 yo could play on his own for a little while, and in the morning he is not allowed to come out of his room (unless for a wee) until 7am. I think some of this stuff has been happening in the early evening / first thing in the morning.

Mobly Discipline methods - we use time out, physical aggression is immediate time out with loads of attention for the hurt one. Any physical fighting over a toy and the toy is taken away.

Peachy glad I'm not the only one, a few parents have nursery have said their children have got a bit cocky / backchat etc., but nothing like this. Maybe this is my DS' version of backchat.

He has previously been anaemic (again at about 2) so I'll get that checked again, otherwise I'll carry on as usual for a few weeks with maybe less time playing in room on his own!

Thanks all.

OP posts:
EclecticShock · 31/05/2012 19:31

Can you see any patterns in what happened immediately before and after each of these incidents? Keep a log in future. There could be a multitude of reasons, attention seeking, avoidance, or just gets something stimulating out of it. A log will help you figure out what he is trying to achieve by behaving this way, which will help you tackle it before it happens.

EclecticShock · 31/05/2012 19:32

Keep the discipline low key until you figure it out.

EclecticShock · 31/05/2012 19:34

Or does he he something tangible when he misbehaves?

EclecticShock · 31/05/2012 19:35

For example, if he is stressed about school and needs some space, he might be doing these things in order to go to naughty step and have some reflection time. It's really hard to tell unless you know what happens before and immediately after, it's obviously working for him in some way as a form of communication.

JarethTheGoblinKing · 31/05/2012 19:36

I've read a lot of threads on here this week about 4yo's behaving like this. All the 4yo boys I know are like this, DS is certainly like this. It's fucking draining and nothing works.

However, you know your kid best and if you're worried then investigate it further

narmada · 31/05/2012 19:41

Don't little boys have a bit of a testosterone surge around age 4? I am sure I read this somewhere but it could well be pseudoscience as I've not seen any references :)

IvanaNap · 31/05/2012 19:45

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn as this poster has privacy concerns.

Original poster
Combinearvester · 31/05/2012 20:14

Thanks keeping a log is a good idea. I know 4 yo are difficult, it just seems a lot of weirdness in a short time. Will it stop when they start school do you think Jareth?

Narmada I've heard that too but have science freak type friends who scoff (and assume I'm excusing his behaviour).

No new staff/kids as far as I'm aware.

Am very much a conditional parent I'm afraid (though I rarely reward Grin) but thanks anyway ihavequestions

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 31/05/2012 20:17

Me and a few friends were talking the other night and a few people said they definitely noticed a spell of naughtiness/regression almost, just before a developmental leap. I hadn't made the connection myself but it might be something to look out for??

Mayamama · 31/05/2012 21:07

Conditional parenting will lead to problems with a developing personality, as many developmental psychologist will point out. If the parent does not accept the child as a personality, uses punishments instead of understanding and compassion etc, 4yo problems will become 10yo problems and soon the child will seek those who will accept them as they are and will cease turning to the parent on his journey to adulthood. It may still be ok but many parents might realise then that they actually would have to either parent unconditionally or reap rather disappointing results in terms of their relationship with their child.

I do wonder if you actually mean and want that? From your disappointment in the current state of affairs it sounds you might want to have a relationship with your child that is based on something a little wiser than conditionality.

JarethTheGoblinKing · 31/05/2012 21:09

I don't know Combine, but I do now know what parents mean when they say 'Oh, he/she's ready for school' Grin

Mayamama that's really intersting.

EdgarAllenPimms · 31/05/2012 21:13

maya really? care to provide evidence?

it's been awful hot of late too. mine have been getting grumpy sooner in the day....

i am very conditional. but a cool drink and sit down can stave off trouble ....and i do favour rewards... works for me!

treefumaster · 31/05/2012 21:18

it sounds you might want to have a relationship with your child that is based on something a little wiser than conditionality

Way to patronise the OP and everyone who doesn't choose unconditional parenting...

OP, I was thinking testosterone surge or developmental leap. I don't know if the testosterone surge idea is cod science but it's something lots of parents of sons seem familiar with.