Help something is NOT RIGHT with my 4 year old

[Combinearvester]

Previously he was a fairly reasonable sunny child with some mild delay which in the past 2 years levelled out.

There are no traumas / issues in the family and nothing out of the ordinary has happened.

In recent weeks he has without saying anything:

• Occasionally wet himself
• Drawn felt tip on himself, his bed and toys
• Nicked a bottle of foundation and poured out out on the carpet in his room
• Gone into the bathroom and eaten some soap
• Damaged books in his room
• Become more physically and verbally aggressive to peers at nursery and siblings including some physical behaviour which is really out of character.
• Had the occasional massive and very physical tantrum when told asked to do time out.

All the quietly naughty sabotage things he has 'confessed' to fairly matter of factly when challenged.

Have asked him whether anything is worrying him / anyone being mean at nursery etc. etc., says no.

Any thoughts? Sorry about the lengthy post.

SeventhEverything, your post made me think blood sugars possibly, have you noticed any sudden changes in ergeny or lethergy?

nah, it's most likely testosterone.

ALL 4.5yo boys are like this atm. A lot of girls are like it too - suggesting that it's a normal 4.5yo thing, but that boys have the extra whammy of a huge dose of testosterone.

DS alternates between mania, shouting at me, inconsolable tears, telling us off and playing quietly on his own. He never just is at the moment.

Just another thought. Is he at all unwell do you think?

Could he have a urine infection? That sometimes causes bedwetting where there's been none previously.

You could catch a bit of pee in a cup - if it's cloudy or smells odder than pee usually does this might indicate infection (although equally it might not!).

I dont think ALL 4 yr old boys are like this at all jareth and stating so strongly it is testosterone could undermine anything else that may be at play. My personal opinion is the behaviour change is too extreme to suggest hormonal changes. buit that just my opinion and op should investigate if she has concerns, rather than allow us to diagnose .

Agree with dangerousliaison

good point dangerousliaison. Sensible to get that possibility checked out OP.

Sorry, that's not what I meant. I did say upthread that OP did know her child better than anyone and if she was worried she should investigate further.

I meant to say 'all the 4yo boys I know'

fair enough i just felt your post came across as flippant and dismissive of any other explination, which may not be helpfull.

UTI may be worth checking out also namada

prob was a little bit.. it's def that with all the boys I know... I actually know very few 4yo girls, but the behaviour of all the boys I know is startlingly similar and familiar. I think they're all bouncing off each other as well, especially at nursery.

Way to patronise? Not at all - her original text suggests she is a perceptive parent. I disagreed with the comment OP made in passing in response to the unconditional parenting book and wondered whether she really meant it.

Prove that conditional parenting will lead to confrontations with a developing personality? Kohn's book gives you plenty of references to such studies, but it also sounds so logical I am not sure where to start. If you regularly reject a child unless they meet your conditions, what happens? They either become submissive (in case they are insecure personalities) or they reject you in turn. What other options are there?

there is a difference in boistersness and destructiveness, that should be considered here, In my experience small children who are destructive tend to be consitently so from a very early age, but I feel it is unusual for a four year old who has negotiated these bounderies relativly well as a toddler to then regress to such an extent at his age.

Not in my experience. DS has never broken anything, he is very careful. He's throwing things now, breaking toys. etc. Similar with his peers.

You can't make any assumptions from the post. OP needs to investigate herself.

think we should agree to disagree we can go around in circles here. our experiences, knowledge and expectations obvioulsy differ to a great extent.

Um... I didn't say I was right, I just said 'in my experience'

"If you regularly reject a child unless they meet your conditions, what happens? They either become submissive (in case they are insecure personalities) or they reject you in turn. What other options are there?"

'reject a child' FFS?

time out is not rejection. it is management. confrontation is not bad parenting - ignoring bad behaviour in order to avoid it would be. children need to be presented with the consequences of their actions so they understand why they shouldn't do things again. also, good management strategy to avoid them being naughty in the first place helps.

Apart from the agression at school, those are all things my asd son was doing at 4 (actually, he's still doing most of them at almost 6). I'd certainly be keeping a close eye on him

Mine did all that you describe except it wasnt foundation all over the carpet, twas blue & pink nail varnish

Dobber marble banged against freshly plastered walls left lovely rounded indentations too.....hundreds of them!

Bath toys down the loo....loved fishing them out!

I could go on & on tbh.

Normal normal normal albeit enfuriating and bewildering!
It does get better, just do what you are doing

Ds1 was similar at 4, came absolutely out of nowhere. I was at my wits end but my friend who has a ds a few years older said they all go through it. Her advice was to treat them like dogs (not literally!!) - plenty of fresh air and exercise, and regular mealtimes. Definitely helped us.

Mayamama if you just proclaim that your way is wiser in a supercillious way, it is patronising. Likewise your "reject a child" statement is emotive and a reduction to absurdity.

Like most people, I didn't have Kohn style parents and I am neither insecure nor about to reject my parents so there clearly is another option, whether or not you can see it

I see some validity in the thinking outlined in the Kohn book although I don't follow most of it. I don't see much that's helpful in proclaiming your way "wiser" and describing people who don't do things your way as "rejecting a child".

Dd was the same at four,we had an horrendous christmas. She is bright , knows her boundaries,very sociable and totally regressed for about six weeks. We asked school if there were any problems and they said no but most children this age at school go through this. We felt it was something we were doing but on asking around parents it was three quarters of the class. If its any help she went back to her usual self and hasnt behaved like this since.

Hmm, what if you looked at this from a child's point of view? Do you think they sit at their timeout thinking how to become a better person, or do they just think, in their upset state, how unfairly they are treated?

I do not see punishments/rewards working, which is obvious also in this community where mothers applying these ask over and over again how to solve the problems they still regularly have to confront. I did very much the same thing until I came across Aletha SOlter's Helping young children flourish. THis is the soundest advice in child rearing I have ever read and helped me think outside the box. I am sorry, I guess I have criticised "conditional parenting" in a patronising way partly because I recognise my own recent struggling self in it - and had my current self met my past self 5 years ago, asking questions about child rearing, I would have been desperate to get myself use this approach :) . But, yes, I agree, I should have certainly thought of a better way to express my criticism.

they calm down and think 'this is boring, if i hadn't done X, i could be playing now...'

they can understand being in the wrong. parents don't have a monopoly on that - not even in the eyes of their kids.

Do they? Not IME. Even my own memories of such "naugthy cornering" are just about the fact I was sent there, but not at all why.
If it works so well, how come parents who use these keep coming back and asking what to do? And what do you do with a 12-14 year old then? Or 16? When do you stop authoritarian parenting if you have set out to use it? And how do you think about it if your own parents used it? I am married to a man who was parented in an authoritarian way. His relationship with his parents is ok, but there is always this lurking feeling that he is only accepted as long as everything is exactly as they think is ideal. I find it really sad. Having been parented the opposite way, I can tell the difference -- my mother always knew all my worries and sadnesses.