really at the end of our tether with dd's behaviour

[Debris]

She is nearly 7 yrs old. She has always been difficult at bedtime. Now she is unbearably difficult, and not an awful lot better the rest of the time. Its like she just cannot bear to do anything she is told. ANYTHING ! This morning the first battle was because I said she was to have a bath or shower and which would she prefer. Cue lots of shouting and screaming ' I dont want a bath or shower . I dont need one , Im not washing my hair it doesnt need washing '. Kicking out , screaming , ranting , throwing things around the room, for ages. In the end my DH said that she would have to stay in her room and could only come out to have a bath or shower. by now she has thrown everything off her bed , is shouting , ranting etc. Eventually she gave in and had a shower and was like a different child. Its like its never happened ! Oh but bedtime. .. we have tried everything , but it always ends up with her refusing to get undressed , refusing to brush her teeth , refusing to go to the toilet. Shouting , rolling around on the bed or floor making the most dreadful racket. If we try to intervine she wont listen and just gets worse. Tonight my DH went to try and get her to bed , but he just loses his temper and shouts , which makes her worse , upsets me and our evening is spent in stunned silence. I cant tell you how awful it is , she makes so much fuss , and shouts ' no no no ' etc so loudly I swear one day one of the neighbours will call the police . It just sounds so dreadful. At school she is as good as gold. I went to speak to her teacher this week about her behaviour at home , to see if there was anything going on at school , and she seriously looked at me like I was talking about the wrong child. She is an angel at school. I have tried so many things to try and make a difference , reward charts , bribes , threatening to remove a treat ot fave toy ( and done it) , a chart of things she had to tick off once she had completed ( brush teeth , put pyjamas on etc ) . They work for a little while , but not long. Ive tried lots of praise for good behaviour and ignoring bad , bedtime massage , relaxation cds , changed her diet (ongoing) , supplements like vegepa omega 3 and 6 , decent vitamin supplements. I just dont know what to do next. Its making my DH and I snappy with each other and I just need some help and advice. Sorry its so long , I needed to get it out I think.

I have one of these.

However, have recently been put on antidepressants (not due to dd!) and these seem to have made me more assertive, and less liable to take crap. The change in dd has been astounding in 2 weeks.

If she kicks off I shut door and leave the room. If she tries to get out, I hold door handle.

I don't answer whiney voices.

In your bedroom situation, the old me would have cajoled, shouted and argued. The new me would have said bedtime. If there was any kicking off, I would have put her in her bedroom and shut door. Unfortunately I haven'tyet trained her not to come out yet. However, I hold door handle until 6 mins is over and let her out(she is 6)

I don't get dragged into arguments. If I feel one starting, I say, this is whatI have asked you to do, and I am not going to argue. Then I walk away if she starts. She absolutely hates you walking off from her.

Believe me she has been a nightmare at times, and is also angelic at school. ButI cannot believethe chnage in her since we started this

Also, in bedrrom situation, I would leave her in her room until she quietened down, hopefully falling asleep. Teeth cleaning is OK to miss until she is sorted

I think, at nearly seven, she is old enough to have a sensible discussion about how this behaviour going to stop. The three of you need to sit round the table at a good time (not tired or hungry) and decide on the consequences of this behaviour. I think you need to have quite a firm routine and stick to it each night ie. supper, bath, pyjamas, teeth, story, lights out. Each time she complies she could get a sticker towards a coveted reward or even a small reward each night to start with if need be. If she doesn't then a privilege should be withdrawn.

You and your dh, along with dd, need to decide what will happen and stick to it and you need to be consistent at least until things settle down. Once you have sorted bedtime tackle the rest in the same way.

I have one too. Exactly the same age. in fact i could have written your entire post it can ruin a morning/day/evening/entire weekend. It's crap

We've tried everything you mentioned and other things beside, and I too have spoken to her teacher who also looked baffled. She does really well at school and is happy and helpful.

This tells me that she can behave/be respectful/respond to requests, so current plan is to disengage with her when she is kicking off and DH (who also loses it with her) is trying to do the same.

It's really really hard and usually ends several hours later with her finally breaking., sobbing as though her heart would break and then (just when I think I am evil for being so harsh and about to cry for her) she will do a complete recovery and behave like nothing has happened.

BUT I do think it's starting to work. So I'm sticking with it for now.

Yes, my dd does the heartbreaking sobbing too. She was screaming yesterday when I wouldn't pick her stuff up off the back seatof the car( I had both hands full, and a bag). I told her I couldn't do it, so she screamed more.

So I shut car door and went insde . Dp got her out and she was telling him how horrid mumy is.

As I have said I have done the disenageing thing for 2 weeks, and the change has been dramatic.

She can still be hard work though, and I have been in situations where her behaviour has ruined a whole evening/day

Sorry for typos. Keyboard is crap

I have a DD aged 7 who has behaved like this - not just over bedtime it could be anything and she would lose control of her temper. Throwing, punching & slamming doors was something that would always happen and it was making our home life a misery.

We initiated a star chart & household rules about 6 weeks ago. AM & PM based. She would gain a star for not losing her temper when asked to do something for instance. If she lost her temper first thing in the morning then she has the rest of the morning to gain it back. The same applies for the afternoon, including bedtime.

When she loses her temper she is made to sit on the stairs to calm down - nothing to throw and no doors to slam - and we just calmy go over the household rules.

Since this has been introduced her behaviour has improved dramatically and out home life is so much better.

I completely understand how you feel but we are very slowly coming out the other side.

HTH

Thank you all of you. I so desperately want her behaviour to change. When she's not flying off the handle she's lovely. She' like Jekyll and Hyde. Ive really kept on top of it today . It just goes to show what an effect it has on me because I noticed that as bedtime approached my stomach kept doing a flip , becase I was dreading it so much. I have bought some new reward stickers and put up a new reward chart. Ive also spoken to my DH and suggested that when he is actually pleased with her for doing as she is told, to make sure that he really tells her. He can be a bit monotone tbh. Im the one thats like a sodding enthusiastic cbeebies presenter ! He must surely realise I dont talk like that all the time. Feeling a bit more positive tonight , and she has gone to bed quite well. Thank you all of you for your suggestions and support. It also helps to know that Im not the only one going through this.

Mines like the little girl with the curl. "When she's good, she's very very good, and when she's bad she's horrid"

Today was the latter

Oh my goodness orangeandlemons that is exactly what we say about our DD ! In fact we have been saying that since she was about 18 months old , if not earlier. Its no fun though , Im sorry you've had a bad day with your DD. Its just so draining. I went to bed at 9.30 last night , I was so shattered and upset by her behaviour. Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

I've been saying it since she was about 9months old. She'e even got curly hair........

Is it a girl thing? ds was never like this.

I second the suggestion above about setting a routine and sticking to it.

Get her to help you write out a timetable for the evening from the end of the evening meal through to bedtime. Agree with her which nights of the week she will bath or shower if it's not every night. Include the time each thing will happen.

Put a copy in her bedroom and another downstairs and refer to it with her when the next stage needs to happen. Stick to it so it become very predictable.

Give her a target of following nicely for a certain number of nights, 3 maximum, and then she gets a reward.

Once the routine is established she may settle to it and the meltdowns may become less frequent.

Fingers crossed for you as I feel your pain.

Awwww, sounds awful. I hope you can turn it round. From the outside it sounds like she is behaving like an over grown toddler and needs some very firm boundaries with consequences. And no shouting from the grown ups- talk to your DH about this and agree the boundaries and consequences for her. Then sit down with DD and tell her in a straightforward manner your expectations of behaviour, how it has not been working and it needs sorting out as it is not acceptable.

Good luck!

Not a girl thing orangeandlemons. I have another DD who is 9 and apart from being highly sensitive and a worrier she is easy peasy lemon squeezy. A major meltdown from her would be a slight raising of her eyebrows ! I like the sound of the timetable. If she helped me with it , she might feel a bit more involved and more likely to stick to it maybe.

i could have written your post!!

my DD is 6 1/2yo and is like Jekyll and Hyde! we have had a lovely weekend and she has been like a different child compared to through the week!

our day generally starts with a battle to get her dressed and hair done for school! washing etc has never been an issue as she loves baths, showers, teeth brushing but getting dressed is our morning everest! we spoke to the learning support mentor at school who has introduced an in-school reward chart and she gets a sticker per morning if her behaviour is good. we speak to her(the mentor) daily or leave a note in her book (DD was being teased/bullied by another girl in her class so brings a note book home so we can record anything she hasnt spoken to the teachers about) for the teacher.
she feels embarrassed that her teacher will know she was being badly behaved at home as in school she is as good as gold...
we have started giving her household responsibilities to focus on (feed the fish, put dishes in sink, clean her bedroom that sort of thing) and choosing our battles. this helps...if she doesnt want to brush her hair in the morning...i tell her thats ok but it will go in the book so her teacher will know she has not brushed her hair...or if she wont go to bed on time...she doesnt get a story...any arguing i walk away... it does make a difference... im still in the midst of the madness so i totally get it!!

Oh the dressing battle. We have those. She "hates" grey skirts. This is the uniform, so we have to battle with this... and the hair...her's is thick and curly and impossible to comb. So I have to do it....the knots in her hair resemble the knots in my stomach by the end of it.

I found this book REALLY enlightening - if reward charts are your thing and work for you then great but otherwise try this. We wanted our DD to do things right cos they're the right things, not so she could get stickers or from fear of reprisals. Yes I'm very idealistic ;D. It works most of the time but she still has her obstructive, oppositional moments. She respects us and is usually very well behaved but she is so sure of my constancy and unconditional love that this makes things hard sometimes (see my other post this evening!) I have a teenage 7 yr old! the explosive child

DD3 (5) is just like this.

DD1 (15) was like this until she was 12

DD2 (11) has never been like this.

DD1 is now lovely and her aggressive streak has turned into assertiveness. There's hope for us all :)

oranges my DDs hair is the same! i now brush it through soaked in conditioner, in the bath every other day with one of these and just smooth it over on the other days...it has made a dramatic improvement on the hair dramas! still not good but no more shreiking like im murdering her now!

Oh I love the tangle teezer. It has bought some peace into my hellish hair traumas.

Sometimes when busy or stressed, I just do top layer and sort it out on hairwash day

Once in a really bad week, I just gave up. It was just such an ordeal. Then I took her to the hairdressers and made them de-knot it

A friend recommended 123 Magic to me - my DCs much younger but it's a good book and has made a difference for us; full of useful strategies for situations such as you describe.

It's a bit like the methods outlined by the first poster on ADs (can't remember name - sorry).

She was angelic this morning . No skirt or hair argument

Hi everyone, were your daughters always like this? I have a nearly 4 year old who sounds just like your descriptions! I have been kidding myself that things will improve as she gets older!
I have had an awful day with her so far, I got so upset I am actually considering going to the doctor to ask for some tablets to help me cope with her behaviour!!
Strangely, she also has very thick curly hair! Tangle teezer and spray on conditioner make a teeny bit of difference but still cause tears everytime we try and brush it!!

Yes, mine was like this from day 1. Would scream in car seat if car got stuck in traffic....and scream and scream until you eventually managed to move.

Would scream if you stopped in with buggy for longer than 2 minutes.

I ended up on tabs, and with hv support when she was 2 or 3. She was jsut so demanding. even hv was suprised at her.

I truly believe they are born like this. I never had any trouble with ds from day one. He was born easy and I never had to do any discipline stuff with him.....and yet there were both brought up in the same way.

My dd is better than when she was 4, but I have had to be tough, and she still wears us down.She is also so lovely though when she wants to be

That sounds all too familiar :-(. I also had help from the HV about a year ago, she was shocked at her behaviour and admitted she drive her mad for the brief time she was at our house. I can't bear to ring her again, I feel protective and loyal to my daughter, I can't bear to hear anything negative about her!
When she is nice, she is so lovely! Kind, sweet, funny, caring- she is wonderful!
I also have an older son who is nothing like my daughter!