Sleep problems 9 MO - Dont want to cry it out but health visitor says do it :(

[Rootatoot]

This might be a long one so apologies in advance.

My 9mo DS wakes frequently at night. He is bf and definately seems to have developed a sleep association with being fed as he has always fallen asleep at the breast. He CAN fall asleep without it and during the day will nap when in the pushchair or car seat. I realise I need to break this association and have been trying the Elizabeth Pantley approach of pulling him off breast before he is fully asleep and then putting him in his cot. This worked beautifully a couple of times but doesn't always. Often he is asleep before I realise or he cries and roots to re-latch so I put him back on (as she recommends) before trying again but then he does fall asleep.

He will fall asleep after bedtime routine at 7.30pm on the dot. The problems start at keeping him there. Last night was particularly bad. He woke after 45 mins (usually its more like an hour to two hours) and I had to rock him back to sleep. Then 20 mins later same again. This went on and on until midnight or so when I gave in out of falling asleep myself and he fell asleep next to me after a feed.

He has been co-sleeping at some point in the night I think for the last 6 weeks or so. Didn't set out to co-sleep. Just done out of desperation.

I KNOW that I have to stop doing this or the problem won't get solved but I really don't like the 'cry it out' idea. It just seems cruel.

On the other hand the Elizabeth Pantley no-cry book seems very long winded and not sure if it would work as I've tried PHASE 1 of her putting baby into own cot bit and he just screams every time he hits the mattress.

The HV came for 9 month check today and I was quite suprised that the 'official' advice is very pushily cry it out. She said she'd ring in 2 weeks to see how I've got on! Don't get me wrong, the HV is lovely but they are very rigid in their advice I think.

So I guess I'm asking for opinions. Is cry it out the only way or is it cruel? I am not sure I can do that. He is still in our room so want to move him to own room but not sure whether to do gradual methods like no-cry solution or whether just to ride out a 'week of hell' and do it all at once.

On top of this he is teething and that is definately a factor.

I feel very tired and very confused about what to do for the best.

I dont think teaching your baby that it doesnt matter if he cries his heart out, your not coming to help him.. is the right message to be giving him while he's so young!! Your the only person in the world he can trust to be there when he needs you, i think it is important not to break that trust. That is exactly what i would tell the HV next time you see her!
I was in the same situation 2 months ago. I bought the Baby whisperer book and have never looked back!!!
As with all of these parenting books you will probably not like all of her methods (i know i didnt) but that is up to you to pick and chose which methods you will use and stick to them. The one thing i did learn is 'CONSISTENCY!!' Which ever method you chose, only use this from now on. Deviation only confuses baby and will not help with sleep!
I put my LO on a loose EASY routine. Basic run down is... EAT, ACTIVITY, SLEEP!! i found times were unimportant for us, but we followed the 'routine' of Eat, Activity, Slpeep ridgidly (?spelling?)!! This basically takes away the eat to sleep association as eating always comes after sleeping!
I used Shush/Pat and pick up put down, rather than cry it out and It took almost a week but we have never looked back!
this techniques tells baby, i know your upset and i am here for you. We will work through it together but you are staying in your own bed and you are going back to sleep!!!
I occasionally have to revert back to this (pick up put down) when my MIL has had LO as she does not follow his routine (yes, very annoying!)
My 7 month old still does not sleep right through. Although all methods are good in theory, i am a firm beliver if baby is hungry you feed him!! I dont give a shit whether the books say he should be sleeping through ny now!

Our routine:
Wake@ 7 ish
Eat
Activity
Sleep@ 9 ish
Wake@ 10:30 ish
Eat
Activity
Sleep@ 12:30 ish
Wake @ 2 ish
Eat
Activity
Sleep @ 4 ish
Wake @ just before 5
Eat
Bath
Eat
Bed @ 7
Dream Feed @ 10:30
Wake between 03:30 and 04:30 for a feed
Up at 7am! To start it all again!!!!

As i understand it a nine month old will have a different routine due to being typically awake for longer between naps!

mayamama that is interesting. They are equally fascinating and exhausting! :)

Thanks Ammz I found that really helpful and encouraging. I think PUPD makes some sense to me and our situation, and it is something I can explain easily to DH unlike Pantley's methods which, though lovely, are a bit wishy washy really.

WIll give it a go and report back!

If you only remeber one thing about PUPD let it be... The second LO stops crying, you put him down. Even if as soon as you lower him he starts again. Always follow through with your actions. Then if he is still crying pick him up again.. repeat as many times as necessary! (sometimes a lot!)

If you can remember 2 things (haha).. Only pick LO up when he is in distress, not just fussing. Try your absolute best not to pick then up in the first place.

I gently but firmly press down on his mattress to give a bounce movement which usually stops him from getting stressed out. Also if he is begining to kick off, i tap my fingers on the side of the cot which momentarily distracts him and stops the crying instantly.. then i begin the bounce on the mattress!!!
The things we learn about baby never cease to amaze me!!!

good luck... looking forward to hearing about your first 6 hour sleep!!!

thanks Ammz 6 hours! sounds awesome but I won't get too excited yet. Happy just to be clear on what to do or at least, try. I 'get' the sleep words as soon as quiet. It's like dog training. Click and reward. Have to time the click right! :)

If your DH wants the baby in his own room, he needs to get involved.

I coslept and bf-to-sleep both my DSs until they were 12/13 months. Then we started settling them in their own rooms. At first I slept in their with them on a mattress. Then I started putting them in their cot and just bringing them out when they woke for a feed, and putting them back in (asleep).

Then DH took over, and for 2 weeks he slept in there on the mattress, and settled them back to sleep (jiggling them in the crook of his arm). Gradually they stopped bothering to wake up.

They're 4 and 2 now and sleep in their own bed (usually...) DD is 11 months and co-sleeping & bf-ing to sleep. I expect we'll do the same with her (but not yet she is my last precious baby!)

I wish somebody had told me this: the only person you need to listen to is your baby! HVs can be very helpful but they can also be a PITA! 9 months is still very young. We've just got 16mo DS into a cot sidecarred to the bed in the last few weeks. I've also (fingers crossed) managed to night wean using Dr Jay Gordon's advice. I'd really recommend it but nothing is really going to work until you're both ready. I read it a few months ago and it just wasn't the right time. I found the no cry nap solution very confusing - I agree with the concept but it didn't suit me. I hope you find a method that works when you're ready but your baby will sleep through one day and you only 'need' to break habits if you want to. Good luck! :)

I started to think about what you said in the beginning, that HV was giving CIO as "official" advice - is that true? Was that what she was seriously claiming? IF this is the case, I would really want to know who is in charge of deciding on such guidelines, and who is training the HVs... I'll meet mine within a week or two for the 2-year checkup and hopefully she will clarify.
BTW, Aletha Solter suggests that when a child fusses and keeps waking, it is often because they need to have a good cry (to release stress that has accumulated during the day, bacause of various daily frustrations babies experience). After a good cry they fall asleep and sleep nicely. Have not checked it myself and will not claim this is officially the case but just thought I mention it :)

Well I feel like a failure.

Last night started out with good intention. Went down as usual no problem. Slept for 2 hours (good going). Woke at 9pm and I tried PUPD.

Took over 2 hours to get him settled and think I screwed up in the end as I held him till he dropped off instead of putting him down straight away. I was so knackered I just lost the plot. :(

He then woke again at 1.30am and was inconsolable. Ended up caving in as I was exhausted and the thought of another 2 hours of screaming ending up with a total of 3 - 4 hours broken sleep was just too much.

DH won't help. He sat upstairs with earplugs in. He is at work during the week and needs his sleep but he's not very helpful tbh. :(

I feel I put LO through all that for nothing last night. Feel totally tired out and unsure whether I'm doing the right thing this morning. Half people on here seem to think that shoudl just co-sleep and let him feed if he wants to. It's ok doing that to a point but my marriage is going down the pan with us in separate rooms and no evenings to see each other either. I'm just plodding through on my own.

Sorry, just needed to offload. I will regroup and prob try PUPD again tonight if I have energy. I just worry I don't have enough energy to see it through so maybe this is just unfair on baby if I can't. I am pathetic.

Mayamama I think I didn't realise there was a difference between CIO and CC. I think the HV was saying CC but it sounded very harsh to me. She was saying still just walk off and leave baby even if he's screaming.

Your not a failure, its just bloody hard work! Especially when dad doenst get involved. Believe me i know! Your right though, unless you stick to it, your putting yourself and your LO through it for nothing. That is the only thing that got me through what was the longest week of my life!!! Just keep saying to yourself,
"We can do this.. Its hard but its worth it.. I will NOT let this all be for nothing!!"
That was my mantra for the week!! Incidently my LO did not sleep in his cot through the day either so i was doing this ALL day and ALL night!! With no help from DH. (in fact, every now and then he would shout at me to shut the baby up!!) Flipping exhausting let me tell yer!!!!

How does he sleep in the day time?
How do you put him down for his naps?

Co sleeping only works when it is what is right for your family. It obviously isnt right for yours. Dont beat yourself up about it. Its not for everyone!

Haven't got time to read the thread, but my advice is don't do it. My youngest was still awful at 9 months, and got worse before he got better.

BUT - he is now 14 months and is sleeping 8pm-5/6am regularly and we have never left him to cry. It just takes some babies longer than others.

I'm not keen on CC either, however I did get fed up of bf every couple of hours through the night. As my 7.5 month old is now eating three meals a day and 'snacking' on me in between, I have now decided to stop the night feeds where I can. He now goes to sleep around 7.30 after his bath. If he wakes anytime within the next 6 hours, (I know he has slept straight through for 11 hours before), I quickly pick him up. I don't say a word. I put in his dummy, rock him for 5 mins at the most, then put him back. He usually does this about 2 hours after going to bed. He'll try again after another 30 mins. I do the same again. He then sleeps until 3am. I feed him and after 15mins, he goes back then until 6 or 7. He comes into bed with me, hubby gone to work, he has no food and goes back to sleep with me for another 2 hours. We then get up for brekkie.
I know I'm using a dummy, which I hate, but it works for us. I get a couple of hours adult time and a halfway decent nights sleep. I want to wean him off his dummy, but one step at a time. I don't change the bedtime routine. Even on holiday when it may have been a bit later to bed, I stuck with what I do. My DS gets tired straight after his bath. Crying it out is not fair on my DS, my DH (5am rise for work), or my neighbours. However I'm not against it if it will work for you.
Sorry for the long post , just wanted to share my experience. This technique has worked for me for about a fortnight. My lo sleeps for a total of 2 hours during the day tops.

Ok have read more.

Your problem is with your crap unsupportive husband, not your baby.

Oh and he sleeps in his cot in his own room and has done since he was about 4 weeks old. We ALL needed our sleep

"I KNOW that I have to stop doing this or the problem won't get solved "

do you have a time limit? The problem will be solved in time, you won't be breastfeeding for ever and I have never met an older child who needs to be breastfed to sleep, nor a teenager, nor an adult.

if it feels wrong don't do it. Ignore the health visitor.

Forgot to mention my DS feeds to sleep after his bath and at his 3am feed. I am unable to stop him and I would feel cruel doing so.

I'm sorry, I don't really understand how this "CC" is not "CIO" then if she suggested to walk off and leave the baby?? Sounds completely and utterly wrong to me still, and I congratulate you over and over again that you did not just do what she suggested. I know of so many people who do CIO or whatever other form of leaving the baby, and appear to have solved the problem, yet then it pops up again and again whenever there are any kinds of developmental milestones etc. And every time it undermines baby's trust in her parents and lets the baby know that her messages do not matter. So whatever you are doing, you are not doing this, in many experts' view very damaging, thing to your baby.
Re: co-sleeping: of course, if you feel it is not right for you, there is no reason to force it upon yourselves. On the other hand, simple solution is to have his bed next to your marital bed, or is it uncomfortable then to have any kind of intimacy whilst baby is next to you? I have to say it took some time for us to overcome that nagging feeling that there is someone else in the room - but they do sleep like logs ;) And it is not going to last forever, I promise (just like so many others). I have to say when my DS1 started sleeping in his own room and bed, I was truly upset, thinking that this is it, he is all grown up and I never have that close feeling with him cuddling up to me sleepily :( He does climb into our bed often enough in the middle of the night though so it is still there. ANd I think had we NOT had him in ours to start off with, our relationship would not be quite as close as it is now.
I'm guessing your husband is not "crap" but he clearly does not get it how bloody hard this period is. He needs to explain to you why he is not helping (apart from the occasional hard working week). You both need to sleep at night so what's the difference between your right to sleep and his?

Hi Rootatoot.. how you getting on?

hi Ammz Tried to reply last night from my phone but obv didn't work. I haven't tried PUPD again since the other night. Just feel I need to regroup a bit before trying again. The hot weather has made DS quite snoozy so been having more time to rest in evening. Last night was tough but DH did help (after a chat so something has got through to him). I am not sure DH would cope with PUPD or follow it to the letter which is important but for now we're just doing what we can to settle him and put him back down in cot. DS was teething badly last night and nothing comforted him. Not even magic booby so stopped him using me as as dummy and ended up just walking him about until he flaked out. BUT got him back in his cot where he stayed until this morning for first time so perhaps progress?

Thanks so much for thinking of me. It means a lot to have some support.

seems to me that the co-sleeping is not an option simply because your H is being completely unsupportive. Sticking earplugs in??

I've only skimmed thread, but 9 months is the worst time to try and get a baby to change sleep habits to get them to sleep through the night - there is a huge sleep regression going on at this age. good arcticle here

THanks hophop. That article looks really interesting though I've only had time to skim it so far. My DS is slow with his motor skills. He is not crawling yet and will be 10 months old on the 29th. That said I can see developments happening all the time so it makes sense that there is a lot going on with him.

Last two nights have been much better. Could be the heat (?!) but he's slept longer in the evenings, so I've had a bit of a break there. He has also been a bit easier to settle. I'm just going to go with the flow for a bit longer I think. Got to be really committed to sleep training I can see and have some stamina for it if I@m not going to have any help with it. I will never to CC/CIO but PUPD made some sense to me and I have got something from reading about it. It does seem to help to put him back down for a timeout if he starts arching his back when I hold him. He'll still be crying but just that break of putting him down and then picking back up seems to help him calm down a bit somehow.

I know I'm not alone and probably don't have it as bad as many. Just some days are very hard. Feeling more positive just now after a couple of improved nights though. The dog woke me up at 3 am mind you barking at cats mind you so he needn't start joining in! LOL

Just wanted to update. Had a funny week. Baby was amazingly loads better last week. Was waking maybe twice in the night but not hard to resettle and was going happily back in cot!!!!! THEN last Fri night, HE SLEPT THROUGH!!! Amazing. (went maybe 10pm till 5.30am or something). I'm sure there is something going on to do with him developing his motor skills. He isn't yet crawling but he's made progress and a couple of night wakings have involved finding him on all fours in his cot crying cos he can't figure out how to get back down again!

Unfortunately we've just been away for the weekend and whilst he did really well the first couple of nights, Monday night was really bad again and last night when we got home I ended up with him back in bed with me (as I was so exhausted from weekend. That's another story. MIL ended up in hospital and me minding baby, dog and FIL with alzheimers! All ok now tho - phew.)

So all in all, progress but might have to try and resettle him again. Though I'm not quite sure how we acheived the sleep through last week. :/