is this normal 10yr old behaviour?

[angelintraining]

hi, im having trouble with my 10yr old DS. he seems really stressed, he has mood swings,he can be so rude, sly, lashes out at his little bro. probably just is normal. he is very competitive, the school tells me helikes to let everyone in his class know that he can draw that he has finished his work 1st - that he's the best! its great to have that confidence but to put others down is not the way to go about it. if he cant win 1st place on the wii or dsi xl he will sob i mean really sob! but it applies to all he does ie, drawing, playing board games. he would bend/invent rules to win. this is just a snipet of his wild behaviour. he would boast about something - then in a split 2nd break down in tears. ive tried to have 1-1 talks with him but he will say im just useless, dumb, pathetic... its horrible to hear a child so low.
he is easily taunted, will snap if some one makes a joke at him. his little bro winds him up cos of his easy/ short temper.

if his not being competitive he acts a pillock, i mean his 7yr old brother can seem more mature then him at times. he gets really down at having no friends (he has one). but he acts like the school clown and i can see why the kids will play with others. ive tried to suggest he acts abit more sensible but i get the negative depressed response and he will continue with his ways.

another issue im worried about is that he can come across as very camp, he acts very flancy (if thats the word) the other day looking at film characters he says 'he's handsome' so i said thats gay lol .... he got frustrated then uspet.

nothing against gays - my best friend and family members are gay and i love em to bits.

any way im worried his behaviour maybe a front to a stressed & confused child. or am i reading it all wrong? no nasty replies as im only human and looking for advice to help him.

It sounds like you might have given him the impression that you felt that being gay is a negative thing?

Your child commented in a man being handsome and you said 'that's gay'?
Do you think your juvenile attitude could be contributing to his mood swings? Sounds like you need to grow up so that he has a decent role model.

If your son ever dares to comment on a man's good looks again, this time do try not to tell him that it's 'gay'. What a stupid thing to do!

Secondly, I not that he insults you too - tells you you are useless, dumb and pathetic.
Doesn't seem to be an awful lot of respect for one another going on here, and surprise surprise....feelings get hurt and disputes rear up!

Is there a lot of 'banter' going on in your house?

He sounds like a confused and angry little boy, commenting on his possible sexuality will not help him at all. I would aim to spend as much one to one with him, give him a quiet confidence, let him talk and Express himself, tell you his fears/anxieties/concerns. Sounds like he needs a lot of tlc, and its going to take time.

Yes...I would say that your son is showing signs of low self esteem, needing to win all the time and prove something, and being over sensitive to criticism.

I would say low self esteem and a big front to hide it. I would concentrate on the lack of friends. Being class clown is doing him no favours, DCs will be quick to laugh, they like a diversion, but they will avoid. They especially won't put up with boasting and a poor loser.
I would get him out doing activities away from school. Take an interest that he could develop and he could be competitive, but it would rely on real skill e.g. Kayaking. Scouts might be the answer.
Maybe he feels that his brother is favoured because he is easier and 'more mature'. Do you do much with him on his own? Does he have a later bedtime and a position as eldest? Can you get him playing games with other people e.g grandparents so that he gets used to the fact that he can't always win.

His behaviour sounds very typical for a boy of his age, having taught boys of his age, this strive for competition is incredibly normal as well as the devastation when something simple goes wrong. Without sounding too general, most boys love competition, they love knowing how to achieve something and then doing it with success and feeling a sense of achievement, however if they/boys/children are praised too much for the end result or the the end result is/has always been the focus at home or at school or both, the level of anxiety in the children becomes too much. As a teacher you would deal with this in a slightly different way to home, but at home it is your our job to provide a safe, loving environment where children can be themselves but with gentle boundaries, activities in place that help steer them on the right path. My advice would be to remove gently or cut down on competitive games, activities at home that are pitched against each other and channel your sons competition to be pitched against himself, there are games such as road rage (a puzzle game) that boys often love as it has a sense of success and clear structure or allow games like top trumps where it is isn't skill based if your son is into something let your son is nt then try and encourage that.

To build unity between the two children and act as a 'team' at home I would have a praise system that is combined rather than pitching them against for example; a jar that you put a marble in or any object dried pasta, etc when they have set the table, whatever chores you ask them to do, and put the marble in without comment of who did the task, they will start working together, also never take a marble out, separate praise and punishment.

I would also put things in place/opportunities to make your son work as part of a team, to feel the satisfaction of team work, maybe you and him could start a special activity together or something like know you are 10, you can stay up and have pizza night or similar treat, watch the news, or whatever sounds like a privilege and say to number 2 when you are 10 you will be able to join us...I think as parents and as teachers we often focus on the little ones, the younger children and compensate but showing the younger one that the older one has increased responsibility etc encourages him to look up to the older child.

I would also speak to the teacher and see if/how much a problem this is in school, nearing summer exams usually parents/teachers see a rise in anxiety in children, the talk at school whether in y5 or y6 is exams and pressure will be felt, so it could be something external pushing his buttons.

In regards to the gay comment, i think that was wrong and I think you should address it, it's one of those comments if he is gay that he may remember for years as the reason he never came out to you, subconsciously or not even related to his own sexuality he was testing out a comment on you, or repeating one he heard in school, you need to or should say, when I said it was Gay to comment on a man, it wasn't and I was wrong to say that, or whatever you feel you would/should say.

Being camp/flouncy is also part of being 10, if he is quite immature he is still so young and probably just mimicking behaviour from tv or school, maybe he does have a lot of girl friends at school, but this I would ignore, try and find lots of positives and praise him for things he is doing and how he is doing them rather than the end result.

There is a good book called 'wild things, the art of nurturing boy's' you may also find interesting......

Exoticfruits I hadn't seen your post before I started and 9 month old then allowed me to finish but agree entirely with your post and scouts would be great for this boy or similar away from school club.....

I thought your advice was great bloggingmama and as I read it I thought - teamwork=Scouts. Any activity where you work as a team and get a real sense of achievement is good. E.g a midnight hike where you really achieve something but there are no winners.

Blogging - you need to use single '-' not double on MN, or you'll get phrases crossed out!

Thank you rusty bear..... :) About a month in to MN and 7 posts so still working it all out..., and harder with second son on lap...

I have a 10 year old ds, and his best friend sounds very similar to your ds! His mum is also worried about him.

I am not worried about my ds, but last term, he found normal playground teasing very hard to handle, and there were tears in class on a few occasions. His teacher said he wasn't the only one, and the whole class were overwrought and tired

I found lots of talking, tlc and role playing a few common playground scenarios has really helped him, in quite a short space of time.

I second the scouts idea. Ds is a scout and it has really improved his confidence, especially mixing with older children from different school. It has really lessened his anxiety about moving up to secondary school -and it's a 'safe' environment' with lots of other adults IYSWIM.

I think 10 is a tricky age as in any one class there is an extremely wide range of maturity- some children well into entering puberty, others -like my ds- still keen on playing imaginary games.

Thanks blog, great advice. Keep posting

firstly, thanks for the kind advice i got from a few replies, much appreciated.

the DC's are constantly calling each other gay, if one falls ontop of the other they say 'get off you gay' if one does something on the computer to make the other loose they say 'what you do that for you gay' when they are over the park other kids are yelling the word gay across the fields.they hear that word a 100 times and know what gay means. i did not call my son gay to insult him - it was meant as banter. and i did apologise to him soon after and explained i was joking.

pictish - sorry it came across wrong - where it says im useless dumb ect.... i mean 'im' in ther terms of my son. he says HE is useless ect. he has said this whilst trying to comfort him when he is sad he hasnt got loads of friends. so i wouldnt say there was a lack of respect for each other. when he comes to me upset i try to advice him to be abit more sensible, less competitive and not to get other kids attention by acting stupid beacuse he is getting laughed at. he says his dumb and acts pathetic and he cant stop being silly. ive had many 1-1's with him on this situation.

earlier today i had my ds's friend over after school with his nan (who he lives with) she said to me her grandson had spoken about not going to the same secondary school as my ds as he doesnt want to been shown up and embarrased by hes silly behaviour. i was quite upset. ive told my ds some kids dont tolerate silly behaviour but he cant seem to see where he may be going wrong. she also said that her grandson mentioned sometimes doesnt like to be around him when he is acting camp (their words!) as he gets stick from the other kids.

exoticfruits - i have mentioned that being the class clown is doing him no favours. i have tried karatee, street dance and an after school active 8. activities he has asked to do but lost interest saying he aint as good as the others at it, i used to think it was him being over competitive and wanting attention - never thought of it as low self esteem. having low self esteem my self im abit annoyed i hadnt seen it.
when reading your post it made me see a few things - like bed time. they go to bed at the same time as ds2 is scared of being in the bedroom alone so i send them up together. so ds2 aint upset, not taking ds1's thoughts into account. so id say he doesnt see his position as eldest, but now its been brought to my attention i can work on that. thanks :0)

grandparents - my mum shows little near no interest in the dc's, she doesnt want to know. my dad hasnt been around since i was small and the ex partners parents have passed away. i do play board games with them and we make lego mosaics together and do baking together. the competitiveness is with himself and other kids.

bloggingmama i have restricted the computer to an hour a day and any arguing will result in it being turned off. the marble in a jar idea sounds just what i need please explain more about this idea.
the teachers say he has the same competitive and sensitive behaviour at school, every parents evening im told he rushes works to do finish first, he tells his class table that he makes the rules on any group tasks given ect... this results in the other kids feeling put down. i have spoke to him about confident and competitive being used at the right time/place.
your advice has been much appreciated.

I would start giving him the position of eldest and give him a later bed time. In that time you could play a board game with just the 2 of you. Perhaps he is over competitive because he feels his younger brother is better in some way. If his brother was out of the way I would started and get him to see that winning is much better if he wins through skill rather than you letting him win, or cheating.
At his age I would be inclined to sit him down, just the two of you, and point out that while DCs are happy to laugh at the 'class clown' they are going to avoid him as a friend, especially as they get older. See if you can get him to drop it to see if it makes a difference to friendships. I still think Scouts a good idea.
Does he get much responsibility - make cups of hot chocolate, cook , go to the shop (if possible) alone etc? Taking responsibility might make him feel better about himself.

I was with you until you called your son gay for commenting on a mans good looks

Yup.
And then tried to defend it by explaining that all the 10yo boys call each other gay.

Yes, they do. Probably half of the reason your son felt he had to gauge your response. Which was, erm, exactly the same as all the boys that are shunning him and don't want to go to school with him as he's camp.

Anyway, yes. Scouts. And treat him like the eldest child. And boost his self esteem, and get him to accept that you love him for who he is, and that he does not have to josh around or 'banter' or act like a clown to get that love.

Laughing at him for being gay and teasing him when he tried a serious conversation might not have been the best start to trying to get him to act more sensibly. It might be that by running a house full of such 'banter' this is going to be as difficult for you as for him...

Laughter is great, but sometimes a child needs to feel secure. It does feel that his issues are rooted in insecurity. (the not wanting to lose, the need to be the firstin class, the need for everyone to recognise that, the attention seeking behaviour. Poor wee man. He sounds desperately insecure)

A friend with a similar 8yo opted for play therapy, which was v interesting and allowed the child to spend a bit of time with another adult who became trusted, and then they could work on the esteem and social issues.

I have sat down a many times, just us. explained all that about 'class clown' and that i find the kids in this day and age quite maturer then in my days as a child - and that he is giving himself the wrong attention. ive tried to get him to drop it to improve friendships but a few days later he will be sad again that his friend walked away from him and others teased him. will look into scouts see whats about - if he wants to. dont want to push him into anything.
he doesnt make hot drinks, he makes his own lunch, he goes to the shop for me (he's allowed to keep change for good deed :o) he goes to and from school by himself. we live 2mins walk from school! he does baking too but thats more a family thing with all dcs.

i have had a chat with the ds's this evening suggesting that ds2 goes to bed earlier then ds1. ds1 loved the idea - yet ds2 got upset and said he doesnt like that idea. see he has always been scared of the dark, monsters ghost etc. so putting the 2 to bed togther has always been a way to help ds2 feel safe, but now realised ive made a mistake and now have to ease him into going to bed alone! :-( easier said then done. will thread about that for ideas/help maybe.

Why do you allow your children to speak like this at home, using "gay" as a put down? Surely by letting it go unnoticed and using it yourself in "banter" you are giving out the message that this is acceptable talk when clearly it isn't?

You need to assign the right problem to the right DS. The 7 year old has a problem about going to bed, that is his problem, nothing to do with the 10 year old and the 10 year old shouldn't be used to solve it. Don't even ask the 7year old. Tell him that DS1 is having a later bedtime and you will leave the door open and a light on, or even a nightlight. If it is very bad let him read, but he needs to be in his room and staying there to let the older one have his own time.
I think that half the problem is that you have a 3year gap and yet are treating them the same, doing most things together and probably, in ways you are unaware of, giving the message that DS2 is more mature. To get attention DS1 is being silly. Some DCs don't mind how they get attention as long as they get it.
I was surprised, on a recent thread,how many people just put their DCs to bed at the same time. As the eldest I can remember that an extra 30mins was vital to me. I only have a 20month gap with DSs and yet it worked much better having different bedtimes.

Exoticfruits is right, the children need to be dealt with as individuals and actually if you think that all behaviour is communication, both of them are communicating a need for your attention/recognition/approval in two different ways but both come from the same place. Your DS2 that is scared, I believe is actually wanting the nurturing, the softness, the time you spend with him when he articulates this view, he subconsciously or even consciously would of course say for DS1 to go to bed the same time so he is not having the extra time with you. DS1 communication/behaviour is displaying a desperate sense of approval from the world around him, teachers and you.

The use of banter/gay and words to each other that our negative are that, they are negative and these your children are young to be allowed them in your house if at 7 and 10 these are ok, what will be ok at 10 and 13 or 13 and 16, but this is your choice of what to allow, you set the tone in your house, and you are the adult, remember that if you want them to not speak like that you can make the change and if you want them to, that is ok as well....

To me it sounds like you need a hug and support, I may have this wrong, but the balance in your house sounds like it has tipped to children 1, you 0....you are in control and I think you need to put in rules and boundaries to affirm you are the adult, you set the rules and show them you are in control. When children feel like they are the centre of a family, descision making and have the reins it causes an natural balance and they act out in subtle or not so subtle ways, your scared DS2 is really looking for a confident mum to say, no it's all fine, I'm herenif you need me, but there are no monsters etc..

And your DS1 is looking for you to set the rules and recognise him for who he is...

7 and 10 is still very young, your expectation of them both maybe too high, imagination is still key in play and development even at 10, so wanting to watch younger cartoons and be silly is a way the 10 year old is saying, I'm still young....

With the TV comment, it's not about the 1hr of tv, it's about what they are watching, so many people push the children to the next level of development before they are ready through TV....

Anyway, it must have been horrible for you to hear the comment from that child's nan about your son, heartbreaking and frustrating all in one, what an helpful comment....between now and high school is a long way....

I would book to see the teacher and make a plan together about not encouraging him to be the first, a good teacher can do this in lots of ways, like making the winner someone who ws fast but had the most correct rather, this slowed the boys I used to teach down, also by putting other specs on the rules, like the date must be on the page, the margin etc,etc

This is long sorry.....I will post about the marble and some other team ideas later in the dag, best dress my two boys....younger than yours, but boys are great enjoy them :) quick idea for tonight or the weekend... get them to come in from school tonight and build a den together and give them tea in the camp, break things up from how it's been and set the pace/agenda....get them to make a flag for their camp together etc and they may fight but say the rule is you must sort out little scraps/fights between you, I will be back in 20 minutes to test the den it should fit you both inside....etc, etc...

Hugs to you, it's hard this parenting thing, but you clearly care, little changes now will make a huge difference for the teenage years.....

Typos...sorry natural = unnatural and helpful was unhelpful, there maybe others but I'm sure readable.... :)

I'm very impressed with bloggingmama's advice- I would say she is spot on.

i have told dc's there will be 2 different bed times. i have made bad habits from a young age that i need to change.
after having ds2 i suffered pnd until he was 18mths, i had help from home start to keep my chin above water and councelling. but during this stage i done any thing to help me cope - so putting dc's to bed at the same time kept things calm. i didnt to it to put responsibility onto ds1 as they liked to watch a dvd together before sleeping - so i didnt think it was doing any harm. yet now i see it clearly was.

bloggingmama i would say your right that its dc's 1 me 0! they run rings round me, ds2 has been hard work from the start. i done a hefty long 12wk webster stratton (if thats the right spelling) parenting class, an assertiveness/power class and a few others to help deal with him before my health visitor placed him to a referal school. to help with his tantrums, out busrt, frustration and short attention span. when i think back i did use to feel so useless knowing that i wasnt giving ds1 attention he needed and do feel guilty. was so mentally exhausted and feeling low that any spare time ds2 gave me id try to sit down to recover!! ive never had nan/grandad or family member to send ds2 off to - to get time with ds1. ds2 behaviour is much better as he's got older but because ive kept them quite close its gonna take some time to get their individuality back you think? i hope this will help ds1 and he will soon feel better.

and for sure the gay banter is now no more.

Not read all the posts as some long and I am working honest! But my boy is 8 and totally competitive, tearful if loses etc he is just a boy as my DH is the same !! Men all mardyarses!