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Behaviour/development

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Original poster

Unconditional Parenting - DD (2) hitting - what to do??

73 replies

OrdinarySoup · 26/04/2012 10:03

Hi there

Firstly apologies if this has already been done but I couldn't find a thread...
My DD has been hitting me and occasionally other children for a little while now.

I have been following nursery's lead in terms of how to deal with it, but I can't reconcile making her say sorry/ time out with the ideas behind unconditional parenting (which I love) and frankly I feel totally lost as to how to deal with it.

I do as much as possible to be patient, explain things etc etc but she is 2 (!), and gets frustrated/ big for her boots and hits out. She will immediately give a cuddle and she say repeatedly that you "don't hit", so is it just a case of waiting for her to come out of it?

Any tips or sympathy most welcome...!

OP posts:

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brettgirl2 · 01/08/2012 12:19

So thats a problem - do you get a medal or something for being a UP parent? I guess I've never read a book about parenting so obviously just ignorant

giraffecrossing · 01/08/2012 13:53

I'm not following UP to the letter, so not I'm not UPing, but i definitely like the UP approach to time outs and forced apologies. I guess I'm struggling with what I do

giraffecrossing · 01/08/2012 14:05

I'm not following UP (or any philosophy) to the letter, so no I'm not UPing, but i definitely like the UP approach to time outs and forced apologies. I guess I'm struggling with what I do instead in the case of hitting. I did take him to sit with me and explained I wouldn't leave him there if he was hurting his friend, but he struggled and cried so I'm not sure what went in! I also told him that we would leave if he did it again. This was after third incident. First one I did not see, but spoke to him when his friend told us what happened. Second one I went over and spoke with him.

giraffecrossing · 01/08/2012 14:06

Sorry, I'm on my phone and seems I keep accidentally posting too soon!

Iggly · 01/08/2012 14:12

Can you be positive? So when DS hits (rare), it's because he s frustrated so I tell him if he wants something, he should ask nicely. Same for shouting etc. how "2" is she? Just 2 or nearly 3? I've found ds a lot easier as he gets closer to 3 as he understands more.

Can you avoid the situations causing her to hit?

Lougle · 01/08/2012 14:21

UP is, I think, a brilliant way of showing your child that they and only they matter. It is a fantastic way of ensuring that they are centre of every situation. Which is why I am horrified whenever I read of it.

Children need to learn that there are behaviours which are unacceptable, and that they must not act in x way.

I knew a girl when I was younger, then she moved away. She visited last year, all grown up, married with 2 children. Her little girl was a Nightmare! Snatching, rude, petulant, aggressive. What did the Mum do? Ooh x would you like to.... shall we..... Oh well little x is just expressing herself!

No, little x was a child with no boundaries, and no 'norms'.

Iggly · 01/08/2012 14:22

I understand what you say Lougle - if DS hit someone else (he hasn't in my company), he'd get told off. In fact I probably tell him off too much hence trying to be more positive. I've noticed it works well if I can tell him what to do as opposed what not to do.

exoticfruits · 01/08/2012 14:41

It seems quite easy to me. You merely tell your DC that people don't like to play with you if you hurt them. The friend doesn't like it and so if he wants to play he has to stop hurting and if he doesn't you will take him home............and follow it straight through. (every single time).
If you don't do this your DS will become very unpopular and people will avoid inviting him anywhere.
He has a choice-if he chooses to hit then he has the natural consequence of you choosing to take him home.

exoticfruits · 01/08/2012 14:43

Other people do have choices-not just him!

giraffecrossing · 01/08/2012 15:50

Lougle, I'm sorry, but I don't think by explicitly telling your child it is not okay to hit, and trying to teach them empathy by making a big point of saying that it is not nice to be hit, it hurts etc, that you are making them the centre of everything. Just because you don't sit your child on a naughty step doesn't mean you are not addressing their behaviour.

Of course children need limits and to learn boundaries. I want my son to know its not okay to hit people because its not a nice thing to do to them, not because of what will happen to him when he's caught. If it becomes all about the punishment, what incentive does he have to behave correctly when no adult is watching?
I do agree however that some parents are way too slack about any form of discipline. Thats not the case here, which is why I have posted my concerns.

My son has just started kinder and is really struggling with that. I have definitely seen an increase in aggression since then. He also struggles with people getting too close sometimes and pushes them away. Recognising where his feelings are coming from does not mean excusing them.
Exoticfruits - I did tell him all that, and would have left if it happened again. As I said first time I didn't see what happened (his (older) friend sometimes pushes him first/snatches things etc). I did say he mustn't do that, but I am not going to remove him in that case. Second time I spoke to him and explained its not nice. Third time I made a point of saying that he was not listening to what I said and that we would leave the next time. Is it so wrong to give him a chance to redeem himself and manage his own behaviour before I whip him away?
Anyway, I have been mulling it over and have decided that my best course of action is to leave and explain to him why.

DontEatTheVolesKids · 01/08/2012 16:00

Mine are expected to say thank you after they receive a gift or have had a nice playmate as guest, and "Excuse me" after they belch. Whether they mean those words or not. So that's my take on validity of "forced apologies" too.

If time-outs & forced-apologies are all you want to avoid, Giraffe, then there are dozens of things you could do. Eg: "This playdate isn't going well so we'll leave & try again a different day." But YOU have to accept the consequence that your child may not be invited again. Which lack of future invite may not actually matter to your child, they only live for the moment, anyway.

titchy · 01/08/2012 16:20

But isn't leaving nursery or softplay or wherever a punishment

Lougle · 01/08/2012 16:50

I suppose I think 'fake it until you make it' is the way forward. We demonstrate and expect appropriate behaviour (saying sorry) while helping the child by putting boundaries in place h until they can recognise boundaries for themselves (ie. Remove them from child they hurt). We demonstrate that this behaviour does have negative consequences (time out, going home, having to apologise, whatever). We then hope that with this consistency, they will come to recognize for themselves that the behaviour is not only unacceptable, but hurtful.

DontEatTheVolesKids · 01/08/2012 16:54

is right, Titchy. UP is all about confusing dilemnas intent, near as I can make out.

If Giraffe left to punish her DS: unacceptable.
If Giraffe left to stop an unacceptable situation: fine.

and she's supposed to explain to her DS appropriately, etc.

Come on UP die-hards, where are you lot? About time to pop up on this thread & fly your flag.

exoticfruits · 01/08/2012 17:04

You have now given lots of chances of redeeming himself so next time that you go out I would say before you go- 'now remember people don't like to be hit-if you hurt them you will go home' and just before you go in you say 'remember-what will happen if you hit anyone?' and get him to answer. Then if he does it you just say 'sorry-time to go home-I explained before we came'. You don't need to do anything more than go home. If he cries or complains or says that he won't do it again you just keep calm and look and sound a bit baffled and say, mildly, 'I gave you the choice before we went in-I should remember it next time'.
Repeat each time- until he gets the message that it is unacceptable behaviour.

quietlysuggests · 01/08/2012 20:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dominodonkey · 02/08/2012 02:02

UP ers - This looking for the best reason for the behaviour thing. When does it stop/get to the level when the behaviour can't be ignored?
I have a vision of a mum saying to a teenager. 'I know you stabbed that boy because you really liked him and wanted his attention. What should you have done?'

GnocchiNineDoors · 02/08/2012 02:19

I really dont understand what is wrong with asking a child to apologise for their bad behaviour, lord knows we have to.

"DC, you know that you are not to hit other children. Say sorry to X please"
"DC if you do not say you are sorry to X for hitting them then you will need to come and sit with mummy and not be able to play. Now, say sorry"

exoticfruits · 02/08/2012 07:16

The problem with that is that some DCs think it gives them carte blanche to be horrible and then say ' sorry' and it is all wiped clean! Often the word is forced in such a way that you know perfectly well they didn't mean it!

ppeatfruit · 02/08/2012 08:43

This is an interesting thread; IMO and E psychologically very very few 2yr olds understand WHY they do things; so time out and forced apologies mean nothing to them because they're experimenting (as someone else has said). if the parent is aware of their L.O's behaviour then they MUST HOVER to pre empt the hitting. It's much better to get in BEFORE the hit.

DD1 used to pull other girls ponytails (because she wanted one she explained to me!!) so I followed her and made sure she couldn't do it . she grew out of it. It's highly unusual for a 5 yr old to still be aggressive unless the family are setting a bad example.

DinahMoHum · 02/08/2012 08:50

I think it sounds like the problem with UP is it sounds like it mainly works if you only have one child and no friends.

Preferably also only as part of a commune rather than real society that they need to be part of

exoticfruits · 02/08/2012 09:14

As soon as you have more than one DC you run into difficulties! The natural consequences for one impinges on another.

DontEatTheVolesKids · 02/08/2012 09:15

Not sure if I'm Glad or not to hear DS is so unusual.

I presume that those against forced apologies are against any other forced social niceties, like Please, Thank You, Pardon, Excuse me, etc. So you'd never push your children to say such things. And of course if sincerity is so important adults should never say those things if not sincerely, either, right? Aunt Mabel will just have to lump it if no one says Thank you for her 2 sizes too small home-made jumpers given out every Christmas.

See I think kids are too young to understand which is why we teach them the social habit & social norms asap & let them understand why later.

Hovering is good but not foolproof; I'll never forget the time I was hovering over DS, another child distracted me for 15 seconds whilst DS was still at my elbow. Suddenly someone was hissing in my ear to watch my child better he just pushed her DD over (her DD had reversed a ride-on car into DS). I could NOT have supervised any more closely. It wasn't physically possible. Never mind if other adults try to chat with you in the presence of your child; bit rude to say "I can't talk!' (for even 5 seconds because I can't get further than arms-reach from or take my eyes off of my kid).

exoticfruits · 02/08/2012 09:18

I think they should say sorry-just don't expect them to mean it or fully understand it! Removing them is the best option.

DontEatTheVolesKids · 02/08/2012 09:38

Just would not be British to fail to observe social niceties. :)

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