Violent 10 yr old dd

[loopydoo]

Well - tonight has all gone pear shaped big time.
Dropped off DH as he's going away with work for a while and before that, i had told dd that because I was feeling unwell, I couldn't take them out for tea.

She went loopy! Started swearing really loudly on the way to car to take DH and then, once we were home, she kept insisting that she hates her name of 10 years and wanted to change it.

I said her name was fine and you can't just change your name.
She then started hitting me (she is very tall and strong for her age) and chasing after me when I tried ignoring her and walking away.

She took the phones so I couldn't call anyone and then threw them downstairs, temporarily breaking them (now fixed).

I sat down on the sfa thinking that I could try talking to her (she was constantly creaming in my face and swearing) but she launched herself at me, smacking me, punching me and then she bit my arm (it's now really sore and blue).

My left arm ,that she kept thumping on the bone, is really painful with pins and needles.

I'm so upset and couldn't/wouldn't smack her as what would that solve?

She said and did all sorts of awful things; tried wrapping the curtain around her throat to 'hang herself', said she would jump from the landing to kill herself and then said she'd go to the meds cupboard and take a load of paracetamol!

Then, to top it all, I was carrying DS' tea through the kitchen and I slipped over on a whole lettcue that she thrown at me and was all over the floor. I was literally out of it for a few seconds (tried saving myself with sore wrist - now even more sore), in which time, she ran off upstairs saying she shouldn't live anymore because she nearly killed me!

This has been a tiring week anyway but now, I feel like I've been mentally beaten up (as well as physically).

Does she need to see a councellor? Could it be pre-menstruation? She had a really wild look in her eyes as though she really wanted to hurt me - she was the little, pretty girl who I breastfed for well over a year and who was always so lovely and polite - now she's turned into a pre-teen monster and I'm struggling to know how to help her sort out her emotions.

My mum simply says she's spoilt but we try to be firm with her and make her unuderstand she can't have everything she wants.

Anyone else have this with a similar aged dd?

Oh you poor thing! I didn't want to read and run but all I can suggest is you get someone (bigger and physically stronger than her) over to the house to stay with you untill she's asleep.

What is she doing now?
Has she never been violent before or is this totally out of the blue?

Thanks Gravy - she's all sweetness and light now. She's been agressive before (usually when DH was weekend commuting); shoving me and flying off the handle, but it's never got to this stage.

I'm just trying to be a bit nonchalent. I'm shattered now - feels like I've been hit by a car! Going to have an early night and chat some more to her tomorrow.

I dont want this to sound nasty, but it probably will. If my daughter (who i brung forth in total agony to deliver her safely in this world, breastfed her so she didnt starve and raised her, catering to her every need) did those things to me, I would be seriously worried that something was very very wrong. That behaviour particularly towards a parent and an elder is disgusting and appalling to say in the least. I swear to god, you brush this under the carpet and be nonchalant, you will live to regret it until the day you die. Girls who are these fiesty types have to be dealt with properly and channelled so that they become strong women and good communicators. If you continue to spoil her and allow yourself to be treated like a piece of shit she is going to grow up with serious issues.

I say this, because I was an aggressive, emotional child, nobody stood up to me or bothered to talk to me properly and I am a 23 year old mum of two with mild depression from time to time, and a fearsome temper that I wish I had the courage to confront and get help for. I blame my mum, as much as I love her, for choosing to ignore it, because ultimately I paid for that, not her.

Sorry to sound so ranty but I regret everyday I hurt my mum, whether that was when I once slapped her, or constantly shouted and swore at her. I remember threatening suicide also, but these things were always brushed under the carpet. I was named many things : obnoxious, difficult, awful, etc etc etc. Fact is, now I have my own kids, I know theyre only the way they are because of me and nobody else. Im saying all this because I really care, might not know you, but mum and daughter relationships are both fragile and strong at the same time. You say dd hasnt ever been this bad before, that's why I say dont let it go, let her know that under your roof, it'll never happen again. Talk to her too. You're probably a great mum so forgive me for my rantiness, im sure you will kind of understand its brought up some painful memories of my childhood.

I agree with movebiatch please odn't ignore it. TBH I would've restrained her. But if she's strong for her age I understand that may be hard for you (or if you have a total hands off stance).

Can DH come home from work?
This, to us, would be an absolute emergency.
You don't physically attack anyone let alone your Mum.

Maybe you need to call your OOH GP tommorrow? Depending on where you live they may be able to get an emergency referal in for next week with somewhere that can talk to her.
She needs to know how serious this is and you cannot let her sweep it under the carpet by acting all sweetness and light.

When I said I was trying to be nonchalent, I meant with regards to her being all nicey, nicey. Thanks for your replies though. I know exactly what you mean.

I truly believe it's hormonal but I realise I cannot assume that and ignore the behaviour.

DH can't come back - he's abroad until next weekend.
It kind of looked like she was being driven by another person; nor my lovely child.

DD isn't as happy as she could be - dh is in the forces and so she's had a lot fo moving in the last 10 years but she knows that will be ending next year, when dh leaves.

She is a very sensitive child and movebiatch I do talk to her, every day whenever I can. I'm a SAHM and have been since she and then her brother were born. I've made homemade cooked meals, read them stories, etc but she is ultra sensitive to change and finds it hard dealing with stuff.

She never seems satisfied with just playing at weekends; always wants to be out doing something more special than playing as kids do. DS on the other hand, always wants to be out playing and never wants to leave the garden for fear of missing a chance to climb a tree!

I know I need to do something more than I'm doing and her agression needs sorting.
I'm worried about taking her to the gp as she's so switched on, I fear they'll come and take her away. If she is ever in a mood whilst we're out shopping/walking at the beach etc, and she cannot get her own way, she'll walk off andf threaten to say "your not my parents, these people have taken me" and "I want to go and live in a children's home", for which I blame bloody Tracy Beaker!!!!!

She's so bright it's worrying. She's very able at school, to the point of being bored and she seems to be quite telented at music. She goes riding every other week, has just got a nice new bike and she has lovely toys and a family who love her dearly.

When I was 10, it wouldn't have even crossed my mind to threaten and hurt my own mother. I just want her to be happy. If it were up to me, I'd move back home but DH can't do that until next summer and we have tenants in our own house.

What are the consequences for her appalling behaviour?

I suggest she loses all privileges, including toys, until she can prove she can behave. Sorry and sucking up doesn't cut it for that level of behaviour.

Then spend the rest of the evening googling Emotional Literacy techniques that you can work on together tomorrow.

I cancelled horse riding straight away (for which she started punching/kicking me again because "that's the only thing she likes" and having said I'd take them to see a movie tomorrow as dh is away, I've said straight away that that isn't going to happen for the forseeable future now. She will not get pocket money.

Off to google emotional literacy techniques.....

Tbh I think you need to strip her room of all but the bed, her clothes and books. Give her the message that, no matter how upset she is, it is not OK to hit people

Get a big piece of paper and decide how she can earn back her privileges - eg, if she washes up and hangs out the washing tomorrow, she can come to the cinema. Loads the dishwasher for a week means she gets her Sylvanian families back etc.

Don't be scared to leave her with a grandparent or friend of yours while taking her siblings for a treat, either.

You shouldn't need to do all this more than once, btw. Unless she has additional needs which hamper her understanding and self control, one instance of Harsh Mummy will bring the worst of the behaviour into line. Lots of emotional literacy work will help get the right strategies into place so that next time, she can handle her emotions properly - at which point she gets a massive fuss with loads of praise to reinforce.

You need to take her to a child psychiatrist, not "take her horse riding and pocket money away".

A 10 year old girl attacking her mother?! OMG!! WTF!!

Don't wait till she is bigger and stronger than you!

Ooh sorry didn't realise DH was forces. So obviously can't return then.

Please don't worry about them taking her away!
Honestly, if it is hormonal they may be able to help ease it and if it's stress, or anxiety or she needs someone to talk to, then again they could really help. She may be very clever but still a child who wants someone to take control.

You must be so upset I'm so sorry. Do you have a friend who can come and spend tomorrow with you in case she kicks off again?

purple - tried googling ELT but all seemed a bit wishy washy and didn't tell me exactly what it was.....also led onto emotional intelligence stuff.
Can you link a good website?

Basically just get her to think about why she gets so work up, how to tell you how she feels, what to do when she gets that angry and how to calm down before it gets to that point.

Unfortunately all my training is both a couple of years out of date and involves specialist resources damn it plus I don't know your daughter so couldn't tell you what might work.

Ds (10) went through a phase of being extremely angry a year ago. He didn't ever actually attack us but woud swear and rage for hours. He also had a look about him that was not 'him', iykwim and was obviously completely out of his own control. It was so scary for us and him.

Taking away privileges etc dd not work as it did not address the issues that were making him angry. He also started to say he hated himself for getting angry and wished he were dead

He saw the school counsellor who really helped him. We also made sure to talk about any outburst once he had calmed down. Giving him the chance to apologise and have a hug.

We tried to have treats at the weekend after a week without any outbursts.

Look for a book called something like 'A Volcano in my Tummy'.

That was quite good and was available on Amazon.

I have a very anxious and emotional 10 year daughter, she has outburst but I know she wouldn't ever lay a hand on me.

I would be very concerned for my DD if she acted like this.

I don't believe it's hormones, I would talk to the GP and ask for chams help tbh.

Daft I'm off to look at your book, DD started her periods end of last year so I could do with all the help I can get!

Dd had violent anxiety attacks around the age of 10 during which she needed to be restrained to keep other people safe. She needed proper help and treatment (which she got), not confiscating Sylvanian families or docking pocket money. I honestly don't think anything would have been gained from making her live totally without privileges; her outbursts were a sign of how bad she was feeling about herself anyway; we didn't need anything to make her feel worse. Later she told me that during these attacks she couldn't feel I was me; it felt as if I had been replaced by a monster that she needed to defend herself again. SHe does not suffer from delusions or any mental health issues of that kind, it was just extreme anxiety (in her case related to trauma and disability, though we suspect that was not the only reason).

She has not been violent since the age of 10, but did go through a period of self-harming later on. It was a lot more than bad behaviour or needing more discipline in her life. She is a lovely and considerate teen, but she does have ongoing mh issues and will need ongoing support and medication.

Not sure what I am trying to say, perhaps just that you can't always punish your way out of things: sometimes you do need to get professionals involved. It may at least be worth hearing what they have to say.

Ds also went through a phase of being angry round the age of 10; he had a few sessions with a counsellor which really helped him.

My db also had violent outbursts up until the age of 10; in his case, almost certainly caused by adoption trauma. My parents quickly found that punishing him for them made it worse, but they did restrain him calmly, and he grew out of them.

Hi loopy, I think you are out of your depth here and i think you now need to seek professional advice either from GP or from school. Fwiw my dd has ADHD and behaviour issues but I know she would never ever raise a hand to me. You must get help with this.
It's not just hormones. I was a troublesd teen and I would never ever have struck my mum or sworn at her. Please get her help

Get to the GP fgs.

Dont ignore this.

Get in touch with dh and tell him how bad it is, even if he cant come back, he needs to KNOW whats going on!

She needs help. Help her.

This is not normal behaviour. Nor can it be explained by hormones.

Nor will punishment help. Nobody behaves like that who is in control.

She needs help, and you need to get it for her.

They will not take your child away. Never.

You love her to bits. And that is why you need to go to your GP and start the journey towards getting her help.

Agree this is not normal behaviour.

I say that having an almost 10 year old who is very sensitive and has had a tough time when me moved country (3 times).

He can sort of "flip out" when he gets angry and has tried to hit and kick me. I guess the last time he did this was about 2 years ago, and we were on our way to school. I walked him back home as I thought I'd better deal with it straight away. I am afraid I shouted. I told him it was absolutely not acceptable to behave that way (not in a softly softly way as "mummy doesn't like it when you do that", but more like a raging fury saying he can never treat anyone like that!) . I was genuinely shocked and angry, and I think it was not a bad thing that he saw that. He knew he had crossed a line.

When he calmed down we had a chat. I told him it is o.k. to FEEL angry, there is nothing wrong with how he feels, he just needs to find a way of dealing with his feelings without resorting to violence. He told me he was frustrated because I never listen. We talked.

Ayway, I am worried that for your DD it has become "normal" to act out, and that you somehow accept being pushed about. And this must make her scared, I reckon.

I really think you need to see a doctor or a psych, this is not normal behaviour. You must not make excuses for it (hormones), don't let her watch "angry girl" programmes like Tracy Blimming Beaker.

Get help, this is very serious, she has anger issues that need to be dealt with. is it just you she lashes out to, or is she like this at school?

How you feeling today loopy? Lots on the thread for you to take in.

Thanks everyone - some really positive, helpful stuff I need to try.
This morning, I feel very sore (the bite on my arm especially) which is blue and in a 2 inch lump.

I have cancelled horse riding just because I'm mentally and physically shattered and can't be bothered to leave the house today now.

At school, she is angelic and extremely hard working. She came home this week with all A grades on her report card; both she and we were really happy.

To explain how she is, it's like she is always expecting more and I wonder if this is to make her feel happy? Last weekend, she said why do we never do anything interesting at weekends. I thought back to when I was her age (I'm only early 30s now) and I never had any thoughts about being bored and sad.

She hasn't experienced any relatives dying or any huge traumas in her life (other than moving house every couple of years). I just wonder how a 10yr old can be so unhappy.

I know what people are saying when they say about the GP but I really don't think she should have meds. A counsellor may help but not sure whether I want her to be on her own for that sort of thing? I think is something we need to work through with our family rather than just her?

My husband gets very cross when he's stressed and does have a loud shouting voice but has never and would never use physical force on anyone so I can't think why she'd behave like this.

I won't keep taking away priviliges (although my mother thinks this is the way to go) but I want her to help out more at home and take some responsibility for her own stuff.

I just wonder how, when we have been 'Supernanny' technique parents from day 1, has she turned out like this!!!