So miserable...just had to take ds home from playgroup- again

[MrTumblesCrackWhore]

I'm so tired of my toddler ds's (2.5yr) behaviour at playgroup. I've just had to bring him home as, after 2 warnings, he went on to hit another child. I've got a 4 month dd and playgroups/softplay are my only opportunity to go out with both of them in a safe environment where ds can run free whilst I feed dd.

I'm very consistent and have started a sticker chart but although he likes it, it hasn't had much of an impact yet.

I'm so unhappy at being looked on as the mum of 'that' child at playgroups. Some are really understanding but I've had some horrible experiences too. Ds goes in phases so it's hard to tell if today is going to be a bad day.

Please make me feel better and this too shall pass. I'm finding it so hard to be the patient and upbeat mum. Ds is also quite jealous of his new sister which I know is making him worse but I just don't know what else I can do to make things better.

It will pass. I know some absolutely lovely mums who had to stop going to playgroups for this very problem, but they came back when their dc had grown out of it. I know it must make you feel isolated and a bit lonely but, in all honesty, it is the right thing to do. Maybe stop going just for a couple of months? Can you do an outdoorsy thing instead, every day if necessary? Some children just seem to feel too cooped up and restricted at toddler groups.

It will get better. One day you will look back and think 'phew! I survived that!'

With the weather warming up, you can soon just let him run wild in a park and keep the playgroups to a minimum.
Don't give yourself a ahrd time- do whatever makes life easier for you. I think he'll be eligible for a few afternoons/mornings in a nursery/playgroup soon, where you can leave him for a couple of hours. He will be better behaved at these places than with you, he gets to socialise and you can enjoy time at home.in park the rest of the day

Thanks. Yes, he goes to playgroup (without me) two mornings a week. He loved it the first few times but now says he doesn't like the boys and girls - but he says this about all the social things we go to. I don't think it's the kids themselves tbh, rather the fact he is required to share toys. Even at the park, he gets possesive over the swings and doesn't like it when other children come to play in them next to him. He plays really nicely with a few of my friends' children so I know it's not that he doesn't like other kids his age.

I do want to keep going to playgroups and soft play as it's the only chance to meet my friends and get my baby dd out of the house (house play dates even more stressful) and some days he can be a little star - and I'm hoping that by powering through it, the phase will end quicker.

I just get do upset as he's not a bad 'un. He can be the most sensitive, caring, not to mention, charming child in the world but not many get to see this, when he's off rampaging around. I think, perhaps, in a weird sort of way, his sensitivity is part of the problem, and the only way to express his pent up feelings is to lash out.

It will pass.
My DS was like this at 2.5 and it probably lasted 6 months or so.
I did stop going to things, upped his pre-school time and eventually he's learning he HAS to share and that being mean or hitting gets him told off and taken home.
He's just turned 4 now and we get the odd incident at playdates but more often at home with DS2. We just keep banging the 'it's not acceptable' drum!
Good luck!

You poor thing - my best friend was the parent of 'that child', and I saw her suffering from it! He was a monster between the ages of about 2 and 3, he would hit and push and bit, and nothing his mum did seemed to make any difference.
The good news is that her DS did grow out of it and is now a lovely 7 year old. Hopefully it will pass with your DS, and if you are open about it with your friends, they will understand and be supportive.

Thank you for such supportive comments. It's good to hear the positive outcomes!

Ds went through quite an intense phase of this about 20-23 months, thought he'd grown out of it but it appears to have become more frequent again. I'm hoping it will taper away soon. The main worry I have is that he's starting to do it with his baby sister - up until recently he has been lovely with her. Her crying really affects him and it seems like the only way he thinks he can express this and shut her up is to swat at her. I know sibling issues are common but it all just adds to the pot doesn't it?

It will pass! My ds was like this between the ages of 1 - 2 and some days I was in tears. But it is now a distant memory! I remember at the time thinking I would never have a normal life with him and now he never ever lashes out at a other child and he used to run up to every child he saw at one point and hit/kick/scratch/pull hair. We didn't have a single play date in about 8 months because of it. Nothing I did made any difference and I tried every trick in the book believe me. He is 3.5 now and he hasnt touched another child in a year and a half so it will end. I know it doesn't feel like it at the time. Just hold in there!

Yes, I do try and always pre-empt a situation before it occurs but there are just some mums who, no matter what, think I'm something on the bottom of their shoe. One mum once toldme snidely "he must be copying what he sees at home". Hmmm.

I am also the parent of 'that' child! I literally can't take my eyes off her at times! She is scared of no-one, even the older kids, infact she's worse with the older kids as they don't really retaliate. My dd is 2.9 and this has been going a while....I have also had some horrible things said and heard parents telling theor children to stay away from her...My ds was so gentle and well behaved at this age....dd is definitely making up for it. You're not alone!

i was the parent of that child. and just as you describe, my DS is also very sensitive. he also wears his heart on his sleeve, and has no 'filter' for his emotions. so as he feels it, so it comes out. it used to be biting - he would bite 3 / 4 / 5 times a day and it was soooooooooooo awful. i felt like i couldn't take it anywhere. the stage between 20 months and about 30 months was the worst. by 3 he had pretty much grown out of it. all i can say is 'this too really WILL pass'...

DS1 was very much like this between 2.5 and 3, it was a horrible phase and it did make me nervous about going to playgroups. I also couldn't leave him alone with DS2 for a second.

It does pass and he's absolutely lovely again now, I can let him out of sight at playgroup and he's sweet to DS2 (almost all the time). The other morning DS1 showed DS2 a book while I went to the loo and it made me realise how much has changed since then.

Things will get better.

The mum muttering under her breath at your playgroup ---- what an arse!! She's probably one of the ones who is too busy nattering (or bitching by the sounds f it) too notice all the things her little darling is up too.
Much of your thread sounds very familiar! My little Jeckle and Hyde son also has a new sister, and hard to keep up with mood swings. Amazingly lovely, but lets just say, he's testing me too my limits at the moment with his 'independence'. It can truly make you cry some days, even when the bad parts were actually only a small part of the day in total. But, we are not alone that's for sure.

Please don't worry -you have a baby too- this throws all firstborns out of sync for a while I think. Our DD2 is nearly 2 and it's all coming flooding back to me - DD1 was very hard work for a while around this age and stage. I really think that it's true about just getting outside (even in the rain) to run off some steam if possible. I'd just avoid playgroups for a little while if they're stressful- by the time your DS is 3 I'm sure he'll find it all less overwhelming and more interesting (and have the language/negotiating skills to cope with other kids)

Thank you thank you thank you. I kind of know this phase will indeed pass in the back if my mind but when you're in the throes of it, it just feels like I'm going to be the mother of a sociopath forever.

It's very cathartic for me hearing about your dcs.

We actually had a great day today - all of his 4 cousins (aged 1-8 years) came to a family lunch and he had the best time. He spent the whole time being so sweet and funny, sharing his toys and absolutely no hitting. It's like he was a different child. He really relishes the company of his family and turns into a right little show off.

I wish his cousins lived closer so we could spend more time with them as life would be much more pleasant, particularly as I love my in laws company too.

I think the muttering mum was well out of order, MrTumbles.

On the occasions my DD has been on the other end of toddler violence, I know I've never blamed the mothers who take action to either try and prevent it or discipline their child in some way (and when I say discipline, I don't mean yell at them, but instead tell them firmly it was wrong, ask them to apologise and if necessary, remove them from the situation). And come to that, nor have I ever blamed the child because toddlers do these kinds of things sometimes and unfortunate though it is, it's par for the course.

The only time I've ever "muttered" was when a mum was doing nothing while her son was rampaging through a toddler group upsetting other children. And I don't mean because she was distracted by another child in her care (which is understandable to a large degree) but because she was sitting texting on her phone and taking no notice of what was going on. That's crap parenting in my book (and I'm not usually inclined to be especially judgy about these things).

You sound like you're doing your best in difficult circumstances and deserve support from the other mums around you, not criticism.

yes it is just a phase and it will pass, if you dont want to come home btw, one tactic i employed and occasionally still do with ds4, is that if he hit i would give him time out in the pushchair, i would just strap him in it somewhere where i could see him. that seemed to help and meant i didnt have to isolate myself so much.

you are doing hte right thing, just be consistent and he will get the message, its def a phase a lot of toddlers go through and those that are smug and not very nice to you may well get their come uppance when their own little darlings do it!

also how well can he talk? a lot of it i think its simply frustration on a childs part, they are learning their place in the world, its very hard for them to share toys and personal space etc, throw into the mix a new sibling and he will have a lot of emotions that he cant express verbally, this will improve as he gets older. hang on in there xxx

Okay-I was the parent of "that child" too. Ds would bite other children. I used to stick to him like glue at toddler group and swoop in to get him if he was in a confrontational situation. In a way, it had the positive effect of making sure I was playing with him because I couldn't disappear to the other side of the room for coffee and a chat. And I always felt that it was a language thing-he was slow to speak and the incidents always happened when he couldn't explain what he needed or wanted. And although it was eighteen months or so of vigilance and sometimes avoiding groups altogether, we're out the other side and he is the dearest, sweetest little chap. He was before most of the time. I am not sure that it speeded things up in terms of stopping him doing it, but I think it was hugely important to signal to him, the other child and their parent that his behaviour was unacceptable and that we were sorry for the distress and hurt. I used to do it by removing him immediately from the play, sitting him down, restraining if necessary (effectively cuddling him firmly - I'm not talking handcuffs!) until he was calm enough to go and say sorry. I would also say sorry to the parent and if they were nice enough to say "don't worry these things happen" I would acknowledge again how seriously I took it and how sorry I was that their child was hurt. Doing all the observation I have done of the behaviour of toddlers at toddler groups I would say that it did also help when adults were helping direct the play a bit. Ds struggled a lot with toys being taken and children muscling in on his play. I could help avoid a situation by voicing what he couldn't "it's ds's turn just now -would you like a turn when he's finished?" that sort of thing. Naturally, physical aggression like biting or hitting trumps other more minor behaviour but I grew to realise that ds rarely took toys or spoilt play-he reacted badly when others did. If you watch (which you prob do anyway) your dc's play you might spot the triggers too.

Yes, I've never managed to really ever get a proper cup of coffee at a playgroup or softplay. I'm always the one whirling round looking a bit stressed juggling a baby and wrangling a toddler. There has been the odd occasion where he's hit another child and I have not been next to him as I've been feeding dd. I was quite adept at carting her around with me when she was smaller but now she's bigger, it's hard to hold her while she feeds and I can't scramble after him anymore if he disappears into the softplay frame.

molehill yes, you're spot on about directing play. Ds is not great at playing on his own and looks a bit lost if he's just left to roam - and that's when issues happen.

His speech, although vastly improving, has been slow and I say him to "use your words" more when other children try to take toys he wants. He generally plays really well with dcs he knows - and has even been known to offer toys out to them sometimes.

We all go through a phase of parenting 'that child.' No one gets a clean run all the way to 18 years.

Even parents of those rule following gentle toddlers will have their time parenting 'that child' too.I have seen little butter wouldn't melt in mouth girls and boys go through these phases, at different ages.

Parenting a 'that child' now will equip you to be an open-minded kind hearted and community minded parent - you will know that good kids have bad days etc and you will be aware of how 'comments' can upset.

My wrestling, hair pulling 2 year old is not the most gorgeous, kind hearted, squidgy 10 year old.

Doh! I meant to say is 'now' the most gorgeous kind hearted 10 year old.

My dd was the most adorable toddler. I never had any trouble with her. She settled at school easily, got on with everyone, was pure perfection. Smug parenting pats on the back all round.

She's now 11... and a more stroppy, whiney, nightmarish girl you couldn't wish to inflict on your worst enemy. daytoday is spot on. You'll be having a smoother run in the future and it'll be someone else's turn to struggle with behaviour stuff.

chops off the hands she once patted herself on the back with and recognises herself as a prize pillock of a woman

One of the things I have learned from being a mum (aside from my surprising patience and tolerance for dcs vomiting and pooing on me - thankfully not a regular occurrence) is not to be judgemental about other people's parenting.

I remember when my cousin brought her ds (4) to stay at our house before I had kids. He spent most of lunchtime banging his cutlery on our French polished family heirloom dining room table. My cousin told him off and did her best to stop him but all the while Dh and I were secretly disapproving of her ineffectiveness. In reality, if my ds was as well behaved at what was quite a long lunch now as her ds was then (my ds would have bolted from the room ten minutes in and be roaring round the house) then I would have been proud. If I were my cousin, I would have thought what a mad silly cow I was for having lunch with an under five at the posh dining table without a tablecloth)

I had "THAT CHILD" been exactly where you are at with DS15. It started at about 18 months! i would collect him from his childminder, and each and every day that i collected him things got progressivley worse :-( between us we tried everything, the naughty step, reward charts, so on and so on... nothing seemed to work, i got the HV to come to my home and discuss things, but no improvements. He started at nursery at 2.6, no joy there either, i used to get called in to collect him "through the back door!" in the end a senco worker was called in to assess his behaviour and the nursery was allocated funding for an extra member of staff who worked at every activity that he chose. there wasnt really an outcome with that. At 4.2 he started school, straight away it was noticed about his behaviour and the Head advised me to see a DR regarding the possibilities of him having ADHD. the result was He was showing those signs, but isnt 6 so we cant treat him. so throughout 7school years i had the joy of being the parent to "that child".
in Year 7 he was sent for re diagnosis and it was confirmed that he had ADHD. Eventually he was on medication for 3months, yet this was awful, so we took him off it and decided that we just needed to carry on working with him in our own special way. there were always going to be good days, and bad days. when he was 13 i had DD. And what a huge difference this made, and now i have a delightful teenager who is a treassure to be arround, caring, helpful, funny, loving honnest, a real treassure.
I guess what i am trying to say to all of you out there who are parenting "that child" 1, you get through it. 2, keep an eye on it and 3, even if they dont out grow it, it isnt the end of the world, so just take each day as it comes.
best of luck x

QuertySue I hadn't considered ds's behaviour might be attributed to something other than normal, if undesirable, toddler behaviour.

What in your experience are the key signs of ADHD in a 2.5yr old? Was he like that all the time or were there times when he didn't display these characteristics?