So miserable...just had to take ds home from playgroup- again

[MrTumblesCrackWhore]

I'm so tired of my toddler ds's (2.5yr) behaviour at playgroup. I've just had to bring him home as, after 2 warnings, he went on to hit another child. I've got a 4 month dd and playgroups/softplay are my only opportunity to go out with both of them in a safe environment where ds can run free whilst I feed dd.

I'm very consistent and have started a sticker chart but although he likes it, it hasn't had much of an impact yet.

I'm so unhappy at being looked on as the mum of 'that' child at playgroups. Some are really understanding but I've had some horrible experiences too. Ds goes in phases so it's hard to tell if today is going to be a bad day.

Please make me feel better and this too shall pass. I'm finding it so hard to be the patient and upbeat mum. Ds is also quite jealous of his new sister which I know is making him worse but I just don't know what else I can do to make things better.

If it's any consolation, at the toddler group I go too there are a couple of 'those' children, and there's always a couple just having a bad week. Most of us are very sympathetic and not judgemental at all. As long as a parent is dealing with it, it doesn't bother me and I just hope they don't feel bad or put off coming. I know there are a couple of people who do sit around commenting, but they generally aren't very well-liked themselves (and are often some of the worst at ignoring their own little darlings' behaviour). So, don't worry too much about others mums, I'm sure the majority just feel for you, everyone's been there at one time or another after all.

If the whole group does have a disapproving vibe, then maybe stop going and find somewhere else. I used to take DC1 to one group where she always seemed to be difficult and everyone scowled at me all the time. I stopped going because it just made me miserable and found somewhere else. She behaved just fine everywhere else, and in hindsight, I think it wasn't a very pleasant group and I was over-reacting to everything because I felt so uncomfortable. Or maybe she was acting up because she could tell I was tense and unhappy. I don't know but stopping and going somewhere else was great.

He sounds totally normal to me

Thanks for the consolation! I do think ds picks up on my anxiety - last Friday that playgroup we went to, we normally go to with a friend whose ds my ds absolutely loves, but she was on holiday. She and I take a joint approach to supervising our dss play so I was a bit anxious about being there on my own. In addition, there were a lot of new faces including a big group of childminders who I hadn't seen before.

I'm in no way generalising about childminders but this group were all huddled together chatting in a circle, and effectively ignoring their children. Although their children were not doing anything as bad as hitting, there was a lot of low level snatching and behaviour with no direction from them. I'm not making excuses for my ds but I think this made it really hard for him to curb his impulses, and I was on edge because I could sense how different the situation was from normal. He didn't have his usual mate to play with and was surrounded by lots of kids not sharing very well.

I bit the bullet this morning and went to a soft play place - I was dreading going but had already made arrangements last week, prior to Friday's disastrous experience, to meet two friends and their dcs there. True to form, ds had a mad old twenty minutes and pushed a few kids and had a bit of meltdown when another child went in 'his' trampoline - however, as people left, he did chill out a bit and enjoyed having more space. I missed one incident as I was feeding dd, but I managed to extricate him from the others and the mums were perfectly fine. One of my friends who has known my ds from birth and witnessed his peaks and troughs of behaviour (luckily, ds gets on pretty well with her ds) was really lovely after I mentioned I might have to stop coming to these places with ds for a while - she refused to entertain this and said she would help out as much as she could. You certainly learn a lot about people in these situations - for good and for bad!

Oh I so relate to what you're saying! I never ever ignored ds, or justify his actions to him or anyone else, but when I used to see him putting up with low level toy taking and general irritation, not having rhe words to stand up for himself, and no parent or child minder there to help the other child I would just feel for him. I was upset for him, yet ready to swoop when his language ran out. And I got really fed up with constantly directing the other children's play. No, they weren't hurting other children but they weren't playing nicely either and then he would get all of the blame. I think children need input to learn to play nicely. Either they will just get walked all over and not have the confidence to say so, or they're like ds who actually didn't snatch toys but had the wrong reaction to others. Or they're the snatcher. There's a small group who actually play nicely and take turns but they often have adults helping them. You will get through this op, and you know what-as one who is out the other side, I actually think the time I had to (because I couldn't leave him to have a chat and a drink) spend helping him play nicely might have had something to do with him now playing really very nicely, more so than dd at this age. You never know

molehillmountain yes, I know exactly what you mean. In fact, some one older, wiser and a few years down the line in terms of being a mother said to me the earlier you have to take on parenting challenges, the better the parent you will be and the better the relationship you will have.

I type this as ds is screaming in his cot for more water...

And the more empathetic and non judgemental you will be. So good for you and good for others. Somewhere down the line......

OP - it WILL pass. Lots of good advice that I couldn't add to but just more reassurances. I could have written your post with my DS (now 8). There were playgroups in East London which we couldn't enter anymore and mothers who tutted across the room at us when I was in tears (in DS's case it was pulling hair, generally of the most pampered, pinkified, little princess in the room ). My son is now lovely and those mothers are still bitches. THIS TOO WILL PASS and you are handling it really well.

If I haven't wrapped it around my own neck by then... x2

TCOB thank you for your kind words. It really is comforting to know I'm not the only one - even when other nice mums say "oh, they all go through it at some point" to make me feel better, I still think I must be the only one who has a ds who does it so frequently. I guess many of the mums who have dcs who do behave like my ds does just avoid playgroups (or at least the ones I go to).

Dh jokes (note jokes) I should start running my own group for ostracised parents and toddlers, provide body armour, pugil sticks and encourage them, Harry Hill style, to 'fight fight!'. I'm more inclined to start a Toddlers Anonymous.

Fight club for toddlers? The first rule of toddler fight club...actually it makes me smile and feel queasy simultaneously

Do not stop going!!!!! These moms should understand and if they don't they can f..k off I've had some awful times as my dd was a hard higher biter and pusher smacker and I did not stop going infact I warned the moms as most of these groups we had been going to since dd was tiny and i always watched and tried to pre empt the situation plus always being consistent with consequence its not like your one of those moms that do nothing about it! You need to get out and your ds needs it to plus if it's a routine you don't want to stop that as he may put that down to his ds and make it worse keep doing what your doing he will soon get the point. Keep going Hun your doing great x x

Oh it really does get better. My ds was a biter. It was a horrible time for me as I had PND and needed to get out of the house, but his behaviour meant I was severely limited to where I could take him, and just taking him anywhere there were other children made my anxiety go through the roof as I was on constant red alert, couldn't take my eyes off him for a second. I can't pinpoint when he stopped doing it tbh, I just know that it was quite sudden when it did stop. And fwiw, ds is my dc2. Dd was an angel in comparison and if ds taught me anything it's to never get arsey (within reason ) with another child or their mum. Chances are if their behaviour is bad, their parents are mortified and the last thing they need is another withering look, so I just smile and offer a nice word if I see someone going through similar. Anyone who doesn't understand or makes horrible remarks has a demon second child written in their karma, and it will bite them on the bum.

Chirpy I really don't want to stop going either. I told dh when he came home just before and he said to stop taking him - but it's my only chance to get out with the two of them. Even going to the local park is fraught with the dangers of ds throwing himself to the ducks and disappearing into the ether. Many a time I've left dd on some muddy path in her pushchair whilst I run off after ds as he gleefully shouts "chase chase".

I'm not a weak person and so, although I am pissed off, tired and a little worried about the opinions of other parents, I can handle these situations so I will. Dh is worried that being put in a situation where ds feels he has to hit, he will be made to be unnecessarily miserable but tbh it's a learning curve for both of us - ds has to understand at some point that his actions have consequences and it's my job to deal with it as consistently and as fairly as I can.

Fuckity I do believe in the dc2 karma too

I think if you can keep going then do, and if he's like it all the time (so you don't think it's just the dynamic of the group) then it's probably best to keep going. Honestly though, I know a few kids who sound like your DS and it never bothers me (I might keep a closer eye on my DCs if they're playing together so I can supervise as well and keep the other mum from doing all the work). I'm generally just worrying about what awful/annoying things my own DC are getting up to. Your friend sounds lovely, great that she's going to help you out!

almamartyr I agree I should keep going so I think I'll persevere when I know my friends will be there too, and see how it goes. Thanks.

After two days of beautiful behaviour at his playgroup preschool (ie. without me there), I was hopeful for a good morning at the local playgroup (where mums stay). Sadly, not to be. He tried to muscle one girl out of a car he wanted and had a tussle with a boy whose toy he wanted back. The mum of the girl was fine in the end but she was a bit shitty when it initially happened.

He's started talking about his behaviour without me initiating anything - he tells me when he's hit someone and he 'knows' it's 'not nice' but I don't think the empathy thing has kicked in yet as he doesn't equate it with anything like when he gets 'hurt'. He has also started talking about sharing. He asks me to get both him and me a drink and gleefully says 'We sharing drinks!' Not quite the complete concept but it's a start. However, he then goes on to tell me 'I no like sharing with boys and girls'. Again, at least we can have a discussion off the back of it.

My DD is not quite 2 & has her moments, but lately seems to be on the receiving end of naughty behaviour of older boys... The only Mum I judge about their child's normal toddler behaviour is the one who does nothing to deal with it. She lets other mums step in to take her boy off other kids or ignores it, or just says 'say sorry' but doesn't try to stop him literally shoving my DD for NO reason, other than she was stood near him. I would say it was one off bad days, if it wasn't at both groups I attend & with many, many children, not just my DD. That mum just doesn't seem to realise she has to help him learn, rather than ignore him or shout at him.

So, IMHO, by coming on here to ask for advice, trying to engage your DS & by actually removing him from the situation as necessary, you are doing everything you can. Ignore other women, they obviously have perfect boring lives...

chunkychicken thanks. The vast majority of mums, like you, are sympathetic. I suppose it's the occasions when I get sly, or even more direct, comments, that I feel it's like my parenting skills are being slated. It's been worse recently since I've also got pnd.

Ds is actually a very sensitive, emotional boy, which belies his more energetic and physical side - and wears his heart on his sleeve. I hope I can teach him to manage his impulses better and therefore the hitting.