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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Toddler group discipline - have I over stepped the mark?

31 replies

millingtonsmummy · 09/02/2012 13:27

Actually I can answer that question for myself, I clearly have as I've upset another mum at my local toddler group today but I think I'm looking for some reassurance or if not a kick up the backside!

I go to a toddler group weekly with my DS (21mths) and am familiar with a little boy (about 2yo) who has been known to take toys and hit my DS and other children. His mum also has a baby so obviously can't be everywhere but doesn't pay too much attention to what he's up to. The little boy made a grab for a biscuit I was eating today which I just laughed off and told him it was mine and that he should ask Mummy to get him one. A little later he wandered over and made a grab for a biscuit that another child was eating. Neither child was mine but it was right in front of me so i instinctively stopped the biscuit grabber by taking hold of his arm and saying something like (I think in a friendly voice) "no sweetie that's not your biscuit". The little boy gave me a vacant look and wandered off. The granny of the other little boy and I exchanged a few friendly words but then mum of the biscuit grabber appeared from the other side of the hall, really cross. She asked "what right do you have grabbing my son's arm ... would you do that to your own child" ... etc. I immediately answered her with "you're absolutely right, I have no right to do that and I apologise". I believe I was acting out of common sense and I don't think I was rough with the little boy or meant him any harm or malice but she did have a very good point ... I had no right. And as for whether I'd do that to my own child I absolutely would. I see no problem with taking his arm if he's about to take something he's not allowed or generally physically holding or stopping him from doing something that's wrong or dangerous.

She was at least calmed by my comments and walked away, I didn't speak to her again but now kind of wish I'd cleared the air before the session was over. The granny who witnessed it all was a bit gobsmacked and said a few words to me along the lines of "remind me to avoid her, has the world gone mad" etc. At least I'm reassured that in her eyes and my own I acted out of common sense and wasn't rough with the little boy.

At the end of the group everyone gets together for a few songs and notices are read out by the group leader and today there was a pretty long speech about children's behaviour and if there are any problems to come to one of the toddler group helpers. I can't decide if it was aimed at me for intervening with another child's behaviour or to the mum who wanted to say her piece to me in the middle of the busy group. Probably both.

So, what would you have done? Let it all happen and keep your nose out? Or a well meaning attempt at stopping bad behaviour when you can see it about to happen?

One confused mummy. xx

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

HereIGo · 09/02/2012 13:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Combinearvester · 09/02/2012 13:41

I disagree. I don't think there's anything wrong with intervening but you were wrong to grab his arm. I usually shout in a loud patronising voice 'NO THAT'S NOT YOUR BISCUIT/CAR/WHISKY DARLING THAT'S THE OTHER BOY'S' whilst staring straight at the offending child's Mum.

Have also shouted 'AH DON'T BITE HIS LOVELY EARS SWEETIE THAT'S NOT KIND' in a similar way . Usually results in flustered negligent mother coming over all apologetic and taking the little beggar away. If they don't want you to discipline their child then they have to become helicopter parents. If I can't see my children being sods at toddler group but someone else does, I expect them to pay for their crimes be told off.

MessNessPess · 09/02/2012 13:45

The other mum sounds embarrassed at having her child's behaviour pulled up. I like you would have done the same, they do say it takes a village to raise a child.

RitaMorgan · 09/02/2012 13:47

I wouldn't mind someone stepping in if my DS was doing something he shouldn't, but am less sure about grabbing him - you'd have been better to just talk to the boy. It might not have felt rough to you, but it could have looked much worse to the mother watching it from afar.

Generally best only to intervene physically to stop someone getting hurt I think.

OlderNotWiser · 09/02/2012 13:51

Depends whether it was a grab or a gentle removal of biscuit IYKWIM. I would have done the same, cant stand semi-feral children at toddler groups. I managed to keep an eye on my elder DS even when I had a baby so dont see why its impossible for others. As far as Im concerned, if they have form of any kind, parent should be close by!

Mind you, a woman grabbed my child off a trampoline at baby gym last week and pushed her daughter on, and I went baliistic, so sort of understand the grabbing thing .

Supect OPs mum felt guilty about lack of supervision hence OTT reaction tho.

SquishyCinnamonSwirls · 09/02/2012 13:55

But there's grabbing and then there's stopping an action.
I don't see a thing wrong with what you did.

The world is going pc crazy. I don't have an issue with someone else telling my child off for doing something wrong, silly or dangerous and am likely to intervene if I see something happening. I'm lucky though and my group of friends all feel the same, we have a kind of shared parenting ethos.

Francagoestohollywood · 09/02/2012 14:00

To be honest, I can't see anything wrong in what you did, it's something I might have instinctively done too in a similar situation (though I must say that I don't find a 2 yr old trying to grab another child's biscuit that offensive, ifyswim...)

What happened to you today is exactly the reason why I didn't go to toddlers groups.

IWillOnlyEatBeans · 09/02/2012 14:17

I'm in a slightly different situation, as my DS (23 months) would have reacted very badly to being touched by someone he does not know. However, if the person in quesiton did not know that (and most probably wouldn't) then I would not have been annoyed. This is one of the reasons I a don't venture far from DS in these situations!

FWIW I often intervene when I see toddlers misbehaving at playgroups. This may involve touching them (to stop one hitting another for example) and none of the other mums have ever taken exception to it!

fullofregrets · 09/02/2012 14:18

See now my DS is the feral child at toddler group. He is vile. I watch him like a hawk but if for any reason I was distracted and someone saw him doing something as in this instance I wouldn't mind them stepping in. Sometimes another adult telling them has more effect too.

Iggly · 09/02/2012 14:23

You did the right thing.

This is why I don't take DS to groups at the moment as have a 2 month old too and if she needs a feed, I can't go running after DS with boob dangling if he plays up. Which he is doing at the moment, whereas he used to be the kid that got hit! If someone intervened as you did, my initial reaction would be but only because I'd be

Many a time I've wanted to physically intervene (eg a toddler was pushing DS and jumping on him) but I held back for fear of offending the mum (instead I remove DS).

Original poster

millingtonsmummy · 09/02/2012 14:36

Ladies you've cheered me up thank you and I'm finding it very interesting that we all share such different opinions. Whilst what i did seemed awful to the mummy, i know i did nothing intentionally wrong. I honestly can't remember the 'intervention' as it was a natural reaction to something happening under my nose. I wouldn't have thought I grabbed the little boy's arm but from the other side of the room it may have looked that way. I worked in a nursery before having kids so I guess it just feels natural to involve myself with the children whether that be in play, conversation or in this instance intervening where I shouldn't be.

Excellent advice hereigo, I'll smile at her next time and make a conscious effort to keep my nose out.

OP posts:

OlderNotWiser · 09/02/2012 14:40

Do you know, I have no problem with 'feral' toddlers whose parents are not far behind. Its the ones drinking tea chatting, fully aware that their child is probably shoving/grabbing other kids that annoy me.

Im clearly getting too old and intolerant for toddler groups

Francagoestohollywood · 09/02/2012 14:44

Toddlers groups are evil, because it is absolutely normal that most 2 yrs old won't behave like perfect gentlemen, and parents get all defensive and precious about their children, both "the feral" ones and "the victims".

LoonyRationalist · 09/02/2012 14:57

OP doesn't sound to me like you did anything wrong.

FWIW I'd be happy if you did this to my DD2, although I do watch her you con't be there every minute.

I agrre withOlderNotWiser she was feeling guilty at not supervising.

MarieLloyd · 09/02/2012 14:59

I dont think you did anything wrong, really, and the fact you even apologised means the other mum should really pipe down now and forget about it. Maybe you should both just forget it and move on?

Oblomov · 09/02/2012 15:53

You may something. You don't touch. Its the rules these days. It doesn't matter if you agree or not, its the done thing/ the latest pc rules. I hate all this pc nonsense, but I do know that these are the current rules. You should have known too.
Put yourself in her postion. Would you like an unknown person, grabbing your sons arm. Probably not.

Oblomov · 09/02/2012 15:54

You may SAY something. You don't touch.

LouMacca · 09/02/2012 16:06

I totally agree with Oblomov it's not the done thing to touch someone else's child. I may have wanted to do what you did OP but I wouldn't have gone as far as taking the child by the arm, I have seen stand up arguments at soft play areas and toddler groups after something like this has happened.

lingle · 09/02/2012 16:29

another one who thinks it takes a village here.

I would feel much much safer having my children around someone like you who instinctively "mothers" rather than stopping to think. If my child runs into the road, I want you to grab him and grab him hard, and if you shout at him afterwards for frightening you so much the better.

What I don't is for you to stop and wonder if it is PC or not.

The no-touching rule was designed to stop those who think hitting kids is ok from hitting other people's kids.

princesss · 09/02/2012 16:31

i think it is very commendable of you to say something but grabbing is a bitmuch especially when the child with the biscuit is not your child...what was their mother doing?

i dont think anyone shoud label children "feral" for behaving as normal toddlers do or mothers "negligent" for being across the room with a younger dc especially a small baby who she might be getting to grips with.

larrygrylls · 09/02/2012 16:44

OFGS,

If another parent gently grabbed my son's arm when we were out at soft play were he trying to take something off another child, I would thank them for helping. I would equally always intervene if a child was being unkind to another. Plenty of parents have more than one child and they cannot have eyes everywhere. If parents cannot act together to make a pleasant environment for all children, it becomes a Lord of the Flies situation.

BlueberryPancake · 09/02/2012 17:35

I have told another child off in the school playground on two occasions. Once because a boy kicked my DS behind the leg, totally unprovoqued, while they were queuing to go in the school in the morning and another time, same boy, who called my ds some very strange names and told him that he couldn't stand behind him in the line because your pants stinks'. Both times, the mum was somewhere around and she wans't looking. I regretted it big time as she doesn't speak to me at all now and our children will be in the same class for all primary school. It doesn't stop at playgroups, it's also part of playground policy. Better not intervene at all, but I just couldn't stop myself.

flagnogbagnog · 09/02/2012 17:59

I don't think you did anything wrong at all. I'm another mum here who positively welcomes other adults telling my child off if they need it. I firmly believe the other mother is setting herself up for a big fall behaving like this. No doubt her child heard her having a go at you? So will grow up thinking, 'i can behave in anyway I like because my mum will always defend me'. We had a really naughty kid at school with us when we were kids and I remember the dad punching the head teacher because he'd dared to tell his son off. I don't know how that kid turned out but I can have a good guess.

DodieSmith · 10/02/2012 14:00

Why should an adult not touch a child's arm? Why not? So long as you didn't yank it I don't see the problem.

hazeyjane · 10/02/2012 14:06

I don't understand where the, 'not touching another child' thing comes from, I really did not know this was the rule, and I have attended far, far too many toddler groups.

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