So now we're supposed to emulate French parents?!

[Ranelaghmammy]

in her new book 'French children don't throw food' US author Pamela Druckerman argues that the Anglophone parenting model is inferior to the French approach, which she fundamentally illustrates by the fact that French children sit quietly at the dinner table and eat the same food at their parents.

Right, I'm a frequent visitor to France and I adore all things French but I have often observed how thoroughly miserable French kids seem to be in restaurants. Our kids love food and eat the same as we do, particularly love French cheese. They can also sit at the table without throwing food (except the toddler, he throws a lot of food come to think of it). But they also converse with us as we eat and enjoy the experience of eating together, when we manage it. I'd hate to have kids sitting afraid to breathe.

Am I ranting? I just get very irritated by people who make money from these books telling us all what we're doing wrong, when we should be celebrating the fact that we're all doing a reasonably good job thanks very much. And if spending too much time with our kids is 'bad' a la Drukerman I'll stick with it.

Its the same as growing up in the 70s as an only child this French model. I sat in restaurants in UK (and France)with my parents, and I behaved and I ate the same food as them, sort of - well, I ate "frites" in France because I couldn't face offal, or an ENTIRE chicken. I have fond memories of watching people and listening in to conversations, it was hugely instructive.

That book sounds interesting, actually. :)

I don't do "kid food" either; DS has always eaten the same as us. But I don't want a little automaton or anything...

Here it says that book is called "Bringing Up Bebe" .

"I'd hate to have kids sitting afraid to breathe."

I'd rather my children be rightfully respectful of their environment, and if being "afraid" is part of that, then so be it. It's highly preferable to having them running amok, spoiling things for everyone else.

Have you read the book by the way? I don't think there is any suggestion in it that French kids are afraid to breathe! Though it does make some over-generalisations about Anglophone parenting.

We spent a month in France last year not long after we started weaning DD and she sat on my lap (distinct lack of highchairs in France) and ate from our plates.
I never saw a French baby eat anything that wasn't out of a jar.
Loads of French people came and commented on DD ect and thought it was great that she would just try whatever we were eating but we never saw them do it with their own children. She was well behaved at the table as well, watching everyone and taking it all in.
As for older toddlers and children we didn't see any in restaurants but maybe that was because they weren't any out at lunchtime during term time and we ate in the house in the evenings because of the baby being in bed.

I think she has a point actually. We spend a lot of time in France and children are invariably well-behaved and well-socialised when they eat out. Compare that to the zoo that is Pizza Express, and there's a whole world of difference.

I bought this book after reading lots of criticism of it, as I grew up with an English and a French parent. I found it interesting and light hearted, yes there are some sweeping generalisations on both sides but there are some points which I will be taking with me through my parenting. There were lots of things I recognised as "normal" in French culture, and again in British culture. For me, the most interesting points were the ones about existentialism and philosophical theory, about language and how children are "already able to understand" you, and that they are already are their own person, hence some of the more controversial points such as "they eat the same as their parents" and "they are taught to wait for things, they aren't the centre of family life, it's a team effort".

There are also some parts of the book which discuss things that anglophile parenting does different but better, such as teaching children to read before the age of 6.

Another big part of the book is the cultural difference: it's about a specific middle class portion of French society, and then there are big political differences such as free childcare.

Sorry what an essay! Anyway, I enjoyed it but took most of it with a pinch of salt.

What is more our French friends' children seem to be prepared to eat - or at least try - any food whereas a high proportion of our children's English school friends reject anything but fish fingers, sausages, pizza and the like. And the rejection is often quite rude even when the child concerned is nearly 10. Of course there's a half way house but we too see less of a tendency to complete "laissez-faire" in French children's upbringing. I have never seen, for example, as we had yesterday in a nice child friendly pub, two children, about 5 and 3, rushing from table to table shouting with indulgent (i.e. bone idle and short-sighted) parents looking on until even our very tolerant landlord had to ask for some control, when they took great offence, claiming, without asking anybody that "Nobody minded a bit of harmless fun." There is surely a case for teaching children that what they do at home in the garden is not what is done in public. Ours have known from an early age that they should not shout in either churches or pubs!!

They are just so much more sophisticated on the continent.

I don't care about sophistication, I just want a non-sulky kid who knows what sort of a behavior the situation calls for. :)

So is 'Bringing Up Bebe' the same book? When I search Amazon for French Children Don't Throw Food, it redirects there.

My children never throw food either, nor do those of any friends. I hate generalisations. In France on out last visit, the one child I saw in a restaurant was not fed at all, had a dummy, and no chair. She was about 6.

I'm reading this book at the moment and I think it is huge fun. But a little concerned that I have missed the 4 month window to do 'The Pause' which will get my son to sleep through the night.

Its an enjoyable take on living in a foreign culture and an entertaining read. There's a French woman in our mother and baby group I can't wait to grill her on some of this!

Am definitely going to employ the 'wait' concept

Mid way through the book and tried to make DS (2) wait for random stuff throughout the day and said no more than usual. We had a strained day. Perhaps I feel a little more empowered to set limits as a result of reading the book. Usually everything is a bargain & I find it exhausting. The book does contain a bunch of generalisations about French and English speaking cultures, though it's light hearted and amusing.

It's hokum

half my family are French and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the kids if you couldn't here their accents.

When my Mum told my Aunt about this book she burst out laughing because her GD was in the background having a raging tantrum at the time!!

errr have I missed something? I am French-speaking, and we spend every summer in France. If you go to cafes and restaurants there are burgers and chips on the children's menu. French children eat mountains of pasta, just like in this country, and if there's nothing on the menu a child likes they will bring an omelette with chips. I have had very positive comments about my children in France because they actually eat raw peppers cucumbers tomatoes and salad.

I live in France.

Every French child I know was weaned on Nestlé "petit pot". I was openly mpcked for bothering to make honemade purées (for bébé 1) and roundly criticized for doing baby led weaning with bébé 2.

Every time my DC are invited for meals at their friends' homes, they are served the absolute staple of pâtes jambon.

My DD1 aged 5.1 can read pretty fluently in English. I receive looks of incomprehension and scepticism when this comes up in conversation as everyone in France knows children are not cognitively ready to learn how to read until CP (equivalent of year 1 or 2, depending on when you are born in the year).

I see French children tantrumming, arging, backcatting, pleading, whining every single day.

I also see French parents (and nannies and granparents) smacking legs, hands, bottoms and threatening to smack (la fessée) with astonishing openness.

We ate out last Saturday for DH's birthday at a "nice" restaurant in central Paris where the children's menu was nuggts and chips, burger and chips or pizza. Followed by a brand-name ice lolly. And coke. (We requested water.)

I had a friend of DD's home for lunch last week and she refused the strawberry cordial i offered and asked for coke. I refused, saying coke was for grown-ups only in our house. She (very middle class, hyper Catho :) ) proceeded to tell me that all the children in her house are allowed coke, and that her little sister loves it. Her little sister is not yet 2.

I would, ahem, refrain from impkementing the French parenting model just yet.

I live in France and teach in a French primary school.
We went on an outing last week, and I idly eavesdropped on a group as they were walking behind me ( we were walking through a market). They were discussing their favourite dishes - who made the best ratatouille, whose artichauts were best, best cheeses..... nobody mentioned burgers or pizza. Try as I might, I just could never imagine any 10 year old - and particularly my own- in the UK getting excited, really excited about food.

I do find them easier to deal with too - whether en masse at a bithday party, where they will sit, for a long time, until everyone is finished eating, or in school.

Though I suppose it does depend on where you are....

OK so I am not an expert on France nor French kids but I must say that each time we are there I am a little amazed how well behaved they seem to be. From what I have experienced there is a difference in how they behave socially.

Thanks for all the responses. I agreed with most of them! Last summer in France we noticed a lot of older kids with soothers, and a lot of slaps. I suppose it takes all sorts.

Our kids are pretty good actually, but we do like them to feel part of the conversation at a meal. Funnily enough I had a bit of a standoff with my mum recently after I came downstairs (she was visiting for the weekend) and the kids were eating breakfast in stoney silence. She wanted no talking at the table. I don't remember that rule being applied at home when I was growing up, but in any event we had to agree to disagree.

Perhaps it's got to do with working long hours and wanting to get as much quality time with the kids that I can.

if you slap your children often and hard enough, they often do behave well

whether you want to go down that road or not is up to you of course, but 'la fessee' is part and parcel of the well behaved French child

(my observation, perhaps I was unlucky that almost every parent I met quite happily threatened or carried it out on a regular basis)

Can anyone confirm whether the French creches for under 3's are as incredible as the book describes? British nurseries don't quite leave me with the same impression...

I really loved this book, very amusing, and lots of helpful tips. Some of which only would work if all other parents around do the same. But the Pause completely worked for me (never too late to start). It is not suggesting that ALL French children are perfect, but does give food for thought.
The "wait" thing has already backfired on me.... Desperate to leave the house and my ds makes me wait until he's finished doing something important.

BlackSwan

Crêches in France are massively oversubscribed, so whilst those who get a place are usually quite happy, I personally don't know anyone who got a place and so they placed their babies with nounous* or assistantes maternelles^ (childminders).

I placed my DD in an halte garderie which is similar to a crêche but reserved for parents who do not work and limited to one of twi sessions of a cople of hours each a week. I took her out after about five sessions because I fond the staff completely inflexible and utterly robotic.

theyve taken a small section of parents/children in france and compared them with a small section of parents/children from england.
if they had taken a different section of each, they may have come to a different conclusion.
children are children/parenting is parenting.