So now we're supposed to emulate French parents?!

[Ranelaghmammy]

in her new book 'French children don't throw food' US author Pamela Druckerman argues that the Anglophone parenting model is inferior to the French approach, which she fundamentally illustrates by the fact that French children sit quietly at the dinner table and eat the same food at their parents.

Right, I'm a frequent visitor to France and I adore all things French but I have often observed how thoroughly miserable French kids seem to be in restaurants. Our kids love food and eat the same as we do, particularly love French cheese. They can also sit at the table without throwing food (except the toddler, he throws a lot of food come to think of it). But they also converse with us as we eat and enjoy the experience of eating together, when we manage it. I'd hate to have kids sitting afraid to breathe.

Am I ranting? I just get very irritated by people who make money from these books telling us all what we're doing wrong, when we should be celebrating the fact that we're all doing a reasonably good job thanks very much. And if spending too much time with our kids is 'bad' a la Drukerman I'll stick with it.

Thanks Greythorne!

Just finished this book and it makes for very interesting reading. Whilst Drukerman's personal sphere of experience is limited to a tiny proportion of French mothers, namely professional Parisians, she has extended her research and the book has a solid bibliography and chapter notes.

I appreciate the French no-nonsense approach to pregnancy, although I'm not sure I agree with the epidural epidemic that France seems to enjoy, which according to Drukerman is 98-99% in some hospitals (p.37).

I also agree with the French notion that being pregnant or having small children is not an excuse to turn into a mountain of flesh and that all weight gained during pregnancy should be gone within three months or so after giving birth.

Perhaps that is the nub of the matter over English anger at this book and others like it. We have to admit that there is a tendency amongst English language magazines aimed at mums to suggest that being fat is part of the new deal and, as Drukerman writes, "The text is unapologetic: "Giving birth changes your body [...]" it says before singing the praises of drawstring trousers" (p.153).

French women tend to see themselves (according to Drukerman) as women first and mothers second and, in the cases she cites, the French men agree. In one scenario an American woman, Nancy, who lives with her French boyfriend, gets upset and offended when, within a couple of months of having their baby, her partner tells her to stop wearing tracksuit bottoms and lose the spare tyre (p.154).

Nonetheless it appears from Drukerman's book that French parents, and presumably they learnt this from their parents, bring up their kids in much the same way as we were brought up in the 50s and 60s. Namely, learning to wait, good manners, and recognising from a very early age that you are not the centre of the universe.

maybe i need this book

I enjoyed the book and felt empowered to be in charge! I Gina Forded my kids and they slept well from 6 weeks - so I was already on board with kids having a "cadre". I love the idea that babies can understand us - even if they can't - approaching them with that in mind is only helpful! I also like the idea that a relationship (mother and father) is more important than anything else as without it the whole framework of the child's life goes out the window... interesting idea - compared to the culture in this country that it is all about the baby right from the beginning - I guess it is about making sure the base line is there and then making sure you are happy - from that, and only from that can you ensure that your child is happy and balanced as an individual. I suffered from separation anxiety as a teenager (from an early age) and feel it was due to being too close to my mother and too centre of her world - not her fault but am determined to make sure my children are independent and happy in their own skin from an early age - something this book sites as a priority in French culture. Also - interesting howe much french parenting and culture is inflienced by Dolto, Piaget etc - without them even realising it!

Whats the 'pause'?

BlackSwan I have to say that I absolutely adore DD's creche (state,in Paris). Staff are lovely, choice of toys and activities very good, they have an inclusion policy for deaf/mute children and they emply a few deaf/mute staff as well as teaching children the sign language. They even have a water room, where kids can play in paddling pools. DD loves it.

I was rather apprehensive before she started as for some reason I had this image in my head of state nurseries as grim institutions where no one really interacts with the kids etc etc. Really, nothing could be further form the truth.

I have nannied French children and I've seen the insecurity, clinginess and passivity that comes from being put into childcare at 6 weeks (French maternity leave is only 8 weeks) and from the mother treating the child as A Thing To Be Trained so that it interferes with her former existence as little as possible. I've never in any other situation encountered babies who - when you put them in their cots - simply lie there unmoving and silent. Or 14 month olds who don't wriggle when you're doing a nappy change but simply lie like rag dolls. It was horrible and there's no way I'd subject my own children to French techniques or recommend them to others. It's all very well to say they behave nicely in restaurants but IMO they're basically clinically depressed. Generalisations of course, to some degree, and I'm sure not all mothers treat their children the same way but the book sounded very familiar.

Octavia, maternity leave is 16 weeks, not 8.

And none of my DCs friends look depressed

This was a while ago so mat leave might be longer now, fair enough.

Yikes, back to my pre preggers weight in 3 months?! Er, not after 13 months. I am by no means big but, hell fire, is that really the marker for a successful mother?

I'm not overly convinced on the manners side of things going by the French language students that we get in our area....