Please, please, advice....we are at breaking point

[boredbuthappy]

DS is 11 months old and his inability to sleep at night is killing us. He has never, not once, slept more than 3-4 hours at a time without waking up crying for whatever reason. We have tried everything, literally everything that I have been able find out about. It's 10:40pm and he's already woken twice and is currently crying and I've decided I am not going in. I am going to let him cry until he just stops. This may be cruel, maybe not, I don't know. Please don't judge. We are so desperate for some sort of normal sleep that I'm prepared to reseort to anything. What I can't do is pay loads of money to a sleep consultant. I don't have it. Is there any service available to sort out babies' sleep that doesn't cost money? I find it hard to believe that it's seen as okay for parents (especially mothers) to go without healthy sleep for years and be expected to bee good parents. I am slowly slipping into a pace in my head that I can honestly say is not good. I don't want to end up hurting my child (emotionally or physically) because I have lost control because I haven't slept for more than 2 hours at a time for weeks at a time. It's got to the point that it is taking me 2-3 hours to fall asleep, only to be woken up over and over again all night long.

Controlled crying, tried it and he goes to sleep on his own at bedtime, but is up crying within a few hours. Have tried feeding in the middle of the night, water, more blanket, less blanket, cold room, warm room, porridge before bed, and (I am not even ashamed to admit it at this point) I have given him piriton to knock him out with no effect.

Our marriage is almost dead, we are too tired.

Most days I feel like a volcano about to explode.

I personally wouldnt do the co sleeping bed thing simply because thats what we did when my DS decided he didnt like a big boys bed at 3yrs old. What i would do for a decent nights sleep

You sound at the end of your tether.

The only thing that worked with DD2 was co sleeping. We just used to bring her into our bed and she would sleep soundly for the rest of the night. And so did we. When she got to big and wriggley we put a single bed next to ours and she settled very well in that as well. At age 2 and a half we put her in the same room as her sister and she was fine there.

DD1 was a very good sleeper and we never coslept with her. I didn't do anything different with DD2, it was just the way she was. I realised very quickly with her that we all just needed to sleep and if she would sleep all noght in our room, then so be it.

I really feel for you - long time ago for me now but I remember the sleep deprivation and controlled crying is what did it for me.
I wonder if cry-sis would be of any help?
www.cry-sis.org.uk/

sleep deprivation is truely, truely shit. DS1 never slept. ever. We ended up sleeping in 4 hour shifts as we discovered that with 4 hours sleep would be enough to get us through. Night was divided into 1st shift and 2nd shift. One of us would co-sleep with him while the other jammed ear plugs in and had some sleep. We also had prescription sedatives which made him easier to settle but still didn't give us a full nights sleep.

At 2.6 he had his adenoids out for persistent infections. We got called down to theatre and the surgeon told us that he knew that DS1 had never slept. His tonsils were so large they blocked his throat when he lay down. 1 tonsillectomy later and he was sleeping through. If your DS has a night cough or snores a lot then it can be worth asking if sleep apneoa is a possibility.

Other than that my advice is to work out what gives the maximum number of people the maximum amount of sleep and do that. Stuff anyone who says you "should" do X or Y. Do what gets you through and stops you going doolally with sleep deprivation (I was hallucinating at one point) Co-sleeping was great for us as well as shift sleep. Things can always be tackled in the future when you are not quite so close to breaking point. Hope you find something that works for you soon.

Ok. I had a bad sleeper. Did controlled crying at 8 months. Worked really well and she has been fantastic sleeper ever since- did have one wake up at 5am until about 14 months when I did BF but then this went. She's now 3 years old and still fab sleeper. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Do you do CC on the wake ups? Think you said yes. How long do you wait before going in? Could you extend this initially?

Hi, the thing about the suggestions to carry on with CC is that, there is no CC to be done, he cries when he wakes throughout the night and it takes, literally, a minute?, for him to go back to sleep. We wouldn't even have the opportunity to go back in at intervals. The problem is that he will continue to do this sometimes every hour to 2 hours. On really bad nights he will wake every half hour. But then he falls back asleep immediately after one of us has gone in. We do wait and see if he's just having a stir, and sometimes he cries and goes back to sleep after a few minutes. But most times, he carries on until it's a definite 'I'm crying, you need to come see me'...so we do, and he turns his head to the side and goes back to sleep. I have left him to cry for over half an hour to see if he would just quit and go back to sleep, but he doesn't. If, when he wakes, he doesn't go back to sleep in less than 2-3 minutes (rare), he will carry on crying for god knows how long.

I don't know what he wants. A quick hand on the chest sends him back to slumber. What we are tired off now is the repeated waking for the nad on the chest. Are we being being unreasonable? I mean, is this what some babies are just like?

I came across this article whilst googling, makes one think...
www.imperfectparent.com/articles/baby-not-sleeping/314_1/

Hi bored :)

You poor thing, I know how you feel. My DS was a shocking sleeper for the first year. He would on average wake every 2 to 3 hrs, every night. Occasionally he would go 5 hrs and I'd be so ridiculously happy, thinking I'd cracked it, and then the next night he'd revert back. It got the point where I would break down at work, I was so exhausted. I argued all the time with dh, had no energy to go out, all I thought about was sleep and when I could next get some! I bet this sounds familiar right?

Finally, in total desperation, I contacted my when ds was 10 months and begged for help. She referred me to a 'sleep clinic' within our local Childrens centre, and when we went it turned out to be a 3 hr meeting thing (we had to concentrate, so they asked that we not bring ds with us) and the advice they gave us proved invaluable. Basically, the sleep schedule they gave us was this:

7pm - 7.30pm - milk
7.30pm - 7.40pm - a warm bath, not hot, but warm enough that it relaxes the baby
7.40pm - 8pm - nappy, powder, into PJ's and sleeping bag. A short story if there is time.

Put a comfy chair next to your DS cot.

Put ds in the cot. Do not speak to him, do not make eye contact. Sit in the chair next to the cot, and let him hold your finger/put your hand on his chest/let him feel you some way. Sit there until ds falls asleep. If he stands up, or tries to get up during the time you are sitting with him, say "ds, if you keep standing up Mummy will have to leave the room". Leave the room. Wait 10 secs. Go back in and lay him down again. Let him hold your finger again. Repeat this until he is asleep. You do need this to happen every time he wakes, its horribly tedious, but it WORKED, please remember that!

You need to do this between 5-7 days. After 7 days, sit next to ds, but dont touch him at all. 7 days later, move the chair nearer the door. 7 days later, even nearer. So on and so forth, until you are out that door!

I couldnt believe that it would work when the sleep specialist suggested it. And it was hard work. But in just 3 weeks, ds went to sleep on his own, and slept 10 hrs! Every time he woke, he made a few noises but then self settled! It was the best thing. And now he is 16 months, and unless his is ill/suffering with his teeth, he sleeps 12 hrs a night. It can be done!

I wish you the best of luck xx

*my hv

another one for o-sleeping. it is the only 'method' that worked for us.

I think you need to get a bed in his room, so when he wakes, he is reassured by your presence, and hopefully will go straight back to sleep then, You can always wear earplugs so you can sleep through the non urgent cries. You will hear the urgent ones through earplugs though!

This may take a few weeks, but gradually he will stop waking up so much and you can slowly move the bed out of his room.

Sleep (for you) is the most important thing, worry about the consequences later, when you are in a fit state to tackle them. Easy route all round for now until your mental strength returns!

Hi bored, I have not read the whole thread, so sorry if I am repeating someone else?s thoughts. Our DS2 was similar. He did not sleep well until around 12-13 months. He would wake up crying up to 10-30 times at night, sometimes it was enough to pat him on the back and he would fall asleep, sometimes you?d have to lift him up and calm him down. I was really very tired and sleep deprived at the time, as you can imagine.

In the end I came to conclusion that he had some sort of stomach ache or perhaps silent acid (although no other symptoms during the day), or maybe immature stomach, which troubled him at night. I fed him yogurt bacteries (from health shops) mixed with yogurt, and believe me or not, his sleeping pattern improved by the time he was 12 months. He is now 15 months and sleeps through night without problem, which I thought will never come!
I also tried lifted mattress, food/milk 2 hours before bedtime, sip of water when he cried at night. There was a little improvement but still not enough.

Ok, I'm with you. Question- do you use a monitor? If so, then stop using it. If he's crying loud or long enough it will wake you. Just leave both doors open. If necessary shut the door. This worked for us.

Have you tried cranial osteopathy? DS was like this for the first six months and we went on the recommendation of a friend. He slept through the night after the first appointment, I went to two appointments in total and he has been fine ever since (now 20 mo). It's about £30 -£40 a session, ask around for recommendations locally. Best £70 I spent on DS.

I have not read the whole thread however one thing that my health visitor said to me was to make sure that your baby is getting sufficient protein and carbs. This actually did not help us as it turned out that our DD had severe ear problems that caused a great deal of pain. However, I guess if is worth a try? Have you had baby's ears checked for glue ear? Hope you get some respite soon, it's truly awful when it is happening, DD is only just coming out of this.

Ok. I would go with the co-sleeping route. You will hear a lot of gubbins about rods for backs etc - yeah, whatever. You do what makes life easier for you and for your baby.

For whatever reason, your baby does not like to sleep alone. Maybe he's in pain, maybe he's scared, maybe he has nightmares. You don't know because he's too young to tell you.

DD is a crap sleeper. She starts off in her cot but ends up with me. Sometimes if I can't be bothered to get her to sleep in the coat, I put her in with me straight away or cuddle her to sleep. I know that when she's 3 or 4, she will sleep fine in her own bed because that's what my 2 boys have done.

But don't leave him to cry. I hate to think of him crying by himself

I feel your pain, My DS now 22m was just the same and we tried everything,but he had trouble self soothing. In the end we put him in a bed (low) and put a stairgate on his door. We left a radio on talk station (on a high shelf) and it worked. Within a week he was up as usual, but he would play with his toys (quiet ones) and fall sleep when he was ready, often on the floor. Now he still wakes on the odd night and although I can hear him he is no longer upset and no longer needs the radio. We never shut is his door so he never felt cut off.
Hope this offers some hope.

Can't see why you wouldnt co sleep in this situation! Plenty of people on here would give their eye teeth for a baby who just needed a hand on them to settle them!! Me included! Bring baby into your bed or sleep next to theirs. You'll stick a hand out and settle them without even properly wakening up. I honestly think all this CC, CIO, getting up and down, coming in and out etc is a waste of time, time that could be spent sleeping! You won't be doing it when he's 16!

I'm not a big co-sleeping advocate (not against it, just never needed it) but I think in your case it sounds like the thing to do. When he's older he can talk to you about his fears and what's bothering him. You could try bumping his cot up to your bed? Then you could just reach out to him. You could sleep with your hand in his cot, if that's what it takes to get some rest. :)

Sleep deprivation is literally a form of torture, I so feel for you. :(

The problem with doing whatever is easiest for you & the baby at the time is its easy in the short term. ?

Yes davsmum, but they grow out of everything in the end, don't they? OP is terribly sleep deprived, so she needs sleep, she is not able to tackle the problem because she doesn't have the energy to do so. Fair enough if she doesn't want to co-sleep long term, but if in the short term this means both her and her baby get some rest, surely this is a good thing? As someone else said, for some reason her LO is not able to sleep on his own, and as many other posts prove there might be a problem, he might be in pain for some reason but not able to tell her. And even if it's just comfort, this is as necessary as food and water at this age, maybe he has more severe separation anxiety than most babies. We don't know. I think what everyone agrees with is that the most important thing at the moment is more sleep. Worrying about making a rod just adds more pressure IMO.

I have an interesting update. Yesterday was DS's first full day at nursery, and guess what? He slept really well last night!! I was in the room with him, and he did wake up a couple of times, but he went back to sleep on his own after tossing and turning a bit. I REALLY hope this wasn't some fluke. He will be attending 2 days a week. I was going back to work, but now I'm not (long story I won't get into here). So essentially this means that I will have 2 days a week to myself to catch up on sleep and get things done. He seemed to really enjoy it, didn't have a morning nap, slept only 1 hour 40 min in the afternoon and was happy and cheery when I went to collect him? Could this be the answer? I was not tiring him out enough? He was having too much sleep during the day? I've been putting him down for a short morning nap between 9 and 10 (no longer than 45min) and an afternoon nap which lasted anywhere from 1-2 hours. Maybe on days at home I should start cutting out his morning nap? I was in shock when I woke around 7am to find him still sleeping soundly. I had to wake him up!

That's great!

DS is also always exhausted after a morning at nursery. I wouldn't cut his nap just yet - as he might still need it some days? One nap a day is a little on the short side for an 11 month old baby. maybe give it a week or so and reassess. If sleep improves without dropping naps at home you win all around.

Hooray!!!! Well, sometimes they drop the morning nap and go to one nap at about 12 months so I guess that might suit him better. DS did this, whereas DD kept 2 naps till about 18 months. Certainly worth tweaking the routine and trying different stuff to get sleep!!! Do you take him to playgroup and stuff like that- very good for wearing them out!!!

Have you tried gradual withdrawal method ie stand in the room and sshh him until he stops crying, then stay in the room for a few mins ony sshh when he starts crying and stop once he stops. then gradually move towards the door until you are outside with the door slightly ajar in silence. shh only when he starts crying. I would stay outside for a good 10 mins so he knows you are there if he starts crying and then if it's been silent for a while move away.

We had a v similar experience with dd1 and it nearly killed us and I concur with all of your feelings. I tried cc to death for extended periods but it just wasn't the right solution at night. Gradual withdrawal and cutting daytime sleep to 2x 45 min sleeps a day solved things for us. I really hope it all sorts out really soon x