Please, please, advice....we are at breaking point

[boredbuthappy]

DS is 11 months old and his inability to sleep at night is killing us. He has never, not once, slept more than 3-4 hours at a time without waking up crying for whatever reason. We have tried everything, literally everything that I have been able find out about. It's 10:40pm and he's already woken twice and is currently crying and I've decided I am not going in. I am going to let him cry until he just stops. This may be cruel, maybe not, I don't know. Please don't judge. We are so desperate for some sort of normal sleep that I'm prepared to reseort to anything. What I can't do is pay loads of money to a sleep consultant. I don't have it. Is there any service available to sort out babies' sleep that doesn't cost money? I find it hard to believe that it's seen as okay for parents (especially mothers) to go without healthy sleep for years and be expected to bee good parents. I am slowly slipping into a pace in my head that I can honestly say is not good. I don't want to end up hurting my child (emotionally or physically) because I have lost control because I haven't slept for more than 2 hours at a time for weeks at a time. It's got to the point that it is taking me 2-3 hours to fall asleep, only to be woken up over and over again all night long.

Controlled crying, tried it and he goes to sleep on his own at bedtime, but is up crying within a few hours. Have tried feeding in the middle of the night, water, more blanket, less blanket, cold room, warm room, porridge before bed, and (I am not even ashamed to admit it at this point) I have given him piriton to knock him out with no effect.

Our marriage is almost dead, we are too tired.

Most days I feel like a volcano about to explode.

My DD is the same - she is 14 months and her sleeping has only just got better over the last month or so. When she was 6 months we did controlled crying and that worked in as much as we can leave her to cry and she'll go to sleep. But like your DS, she will wake up again and doesn't seem to be able to go back to sleep herself. I usually just go in, pick her up, wait till she's calm and put her back in her cot. 9 times out of ten she goes to sleep with no crying. I figure that if she can go to sleep by herself at bedtime, then she should be able to do it during the night. She has got better though over the last month or so and now wakes maybe twice (at 8/9pm and then sometimes 10/11pm), so sleeps mostly from midnight to 7pm. She used to wake up at 7.30pm/9pm/10.30pm/12am/3am) :-). I did put a nightlight in her room incase she was waking up in the dark and disorientated.

I really sympathise though, i work full-time and am the one who gets up during the night (DH is the stay at home dad so he deals with DD and DS during the day so figure he needs more rest!), it really does suck especially if it takes a while to get to sleep. Have you tried any herbal sleeping remedies or anything?

Not much advice though (as my DD is still a bit rubbish at sleeping!), but what I would do is when he wakes, go in, pat his back, tell him its sleeptime and then leave. Do that every time he wakes and try it for 3-4 nights and see if it makes any different. Get some heavy duty earplugs, try a nightlight.

Really hope it gets better for you!

I have the same things with my son as a baby he never slept for more than 2 hours. He is 4 now and still barely sleeps. I suggest you immediately go back to your gp an tell them just how bad your are feeling. I found the first 6 months hellish but after that I adapted the only thing that works for us is co sleeping I laid in the outside with ds between me and the wall so he could sing sit up etc, I would wake with him but found it easier relaxing then dozing and waking as he did throughout the night. Now he's older we do the same thing but he has books if he wants to look at them if he's bored. Best of luck

Just read your post - how did the co-sleeping go? I co-sleep with my baby (she is only 5 weeks) - she wakes continuously in her cot because she hits herself and wakes herself up. In bed with me I can re-settle her before she is properly awake. It means I don't get the best sleep but I make sure I sleep in the evenings when dp gets in.

Really feel for you - I hope you had a better night :)

Cosleeping is the only thing that works for us too. DS is almost 1 and wakes 2-3 times a night, and the problem is that he's very hard to settle (or if I manage to settle him in his cot after midnight, he will wake up 30 minutes later). We have an adult single mattress on the floor in his room and DH and I take turns to co-sleep. We both work full time so it's about survival. I don't mind co-sleeping and love the morning cuddles, but it's broken sleep which is a killer.

It sounds from your OP that CC is not working, so TBH I'd try something else, after co-sleeping for a couple of weeks to get some energy back. I'm wondering if your DS has separation anxiety, in which case he might need more reassurance? I know, the books tell you about rods and backs,but you need to find what works for you, and I think sleep problems are very common, but not many parents admit it, somehow it's seen as ineffectual parenting.

I hope you find something which works for you soon!

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your supportive posts. Well last night I brought him into bed with me when he woke, and he did toss and turn all night, but for me I suppose it was easier to jsut roll over in my sleep and settle him. My thinking is kind of with lollipoppet on this, in that I don't want to mess with his ability to fall asleep on his own. From what I hearm that is a really good thing. I suppose I'm going to try and transfer him to our bed in the night and see how it goes for the next little while, but if it starts to affect his ability to fall asleep by himself, I might abandon it and try something else, not sure what though.

So weird, I jsut put him down for his morning nap, plucked him off the floor from his toys because he yawned, put him in his cot, a quick kiss and cuddle and left the room and he was asleep within minutes. I really can't understand what causes him to wake and not fall back asleep on his own at night.

Oh also, in the night, when he's been waking, we don't even need to pick him up, just a hand on the chest and he drifts off again. Could he bee looking for comfort every time he wakes? I find that hard to believe considering he doesn't need us to fall asleep in the first place.

bored, just to add to the others in that I feel for you. Ds didn't sleep for months and it nearly made me lose my mind! He also would self settle at bedtime although we did have problems during the day in that he wouldn't sleep more than about 25 mins and would wake howling. I used to bring him into bed from his first wake up in the night else would be up and down all the time and get no blinking sleep at all.

In the end, in desperation, I took him to a cranial osteo and the results were outstanding. We went from being in our bed every night to him sleeping 7 till 7.30 without me having to get up once. The first few times it happened I used to wake up feeling sick because the house was so quiet!

He does still wake now (he is still only 9 months) b ut it's obviously due to teeth and he sleeps a lot better in the day too. Once he was sleeping properly he also became a different baby, much cheerier and obviously rested.

It's not cheap between 35 to 40 quid per session, we have had five so far and are back today. I am hoping this is the last one. It is possible to do it on health insurance though although I don't know if a referral would be possible. We use the penn clinic in Hatfield if you think it is worth investigating you could call them and ask about costs / payment ideas.

Just seen your last post. Do you have a strict bedtime routine? It MIT be that he just knows its bedtime so doesn't argue iykwim but isn't able to settle himself in the night. Maybe worth also investigating gradual withdrawal methods in the night so you will eventually not need to go to him?

Sorry might not MIT!

Yes, strict bedtime routine has been in place since he was about 2 months old. Infact, everything I've done with him has always been extremely consistent. Feed times, nap times, bedtime. All you hear is that routine is the key. I wonder if I'd thrown any routine out the window he'd have been an easier child.

If its any consolation I have two dc and was very routine driven with both. Dd was angel baby (and I thought I was just a lovely chilled parent) ds came along to prove me oh so wrong! They are all individual and I still think a routine is good for most as it's better that they know what's going to happen next roughly!! It might just be that you need to teach him what happens at night now. Gradual withdrawal might help him work out how to settle himself esp if he is already happy for you to just place your hand on him in the night to calm him?

bored my DS was/is just like this. Can go to sleep for naps and at bed time fine, but wakes repeatedly during the night. I won't tell you how old he is though :o He is so so much better now than he was at a year old though!

We have found that a day time nap routine has helped, as has using a childminder (I went back to work when he was 7 months old, so had no option on childcare!). He is currently at nursery 3 days and CM 2 days a week, and the structure of his days there is great for getting him to sleep occasionally. If you could afford a day or 2 a week where he is with a CM and you get a breather, that would probably improve your outlook too! (we have no family near us to help, so our CM has become a sort of surrogate auntie, and we all adore her and her kids adore DS, it's been a really positive experience from the start).

We recently found the BEST thing was a very long walk in the woods nearby - on sunday he had a 3 hour nap then slept for 11 hours solid! So we are planning to do that more often!

The mill pond book gapants recommended worked wonders for us. Also, our HV (who recommended it to us in the first place!) did sleep training clinics, it's worth speaking to your HV and see what they can offer.

We do still end up co-sleeping from 4 am most nights, but both DH and I are so broken with tiredness we don't care. We have DC2 on the way soon too, so not bothering trying anything new with DS until after she arrives and is settled.

Anyway, my coping strategies were:
dummy for comfort (he still has one at night, and I don't care!)

took the side off his cot bed and he started sleeping much better

DH and I get one lie-in a week, either saturday or sunday.

when we are actually about to kill him, the most exhausted parent sleeps downstairs for a few nights to get some kip. If it's me, I will take an antihistamine to help me sleep (although not so much now I'm pg again).

took him to the GP repeatedly until ear infection was diagnosed - we had 6 fucking months of 45 minutes at a time sleep, and I was nearly crashing on the way to work, I was so tired. After the 1st month, a proper GP actually diagnosed an ear infection, and although it ended up being a long drawn out process to treat it, we at least knew what the problem was. He has had no ear problems this year though, so hopefully it was a one off. Actually, that would be an avenue worth investigating - ear problems or some undiagnosed allergy? These often lead to poor sleep, and if treated can result in sudden improvements. I say this anecdotally though... One friend of ours had a non-sleeper, and when she was 2, they cut all gluten and dairy from her diet, and she is a different child now. They just tried it on a bit of a whim, but god, what a difference!

medised (occasionally)

good luck, I know how tiring it is, but it will get better. Seriously, it will!

You sound absolutely exhausted and i feel for you 9have also been there but it is in the past now, so i can truthfully tell you it will get better, but i also know that is little comfort to you right now.

I've only skimmed the replies, and i know you have tried everything, but my two tended to wake much more frequently in the night if they were overtired. Could you try putting him to bed a bit earlier?

Apologies if this just wouldn't work, it did sometimes work for ours.

And i do believe just how awful it all is [hug]

I completely sympathise. My Son is 4.5 now but did not start sleeping properly untill he was 14 months old. He would wake every 45mins-3hrly every night and all night and would also be up and awake for the day by 5.30am. My life was miniscule and dull. I was a sleep obsessed zombie. Like you I tried CC, no cry sleep solution, ignoring, piriton (when desperate)... What worked and still does is co-sleeping. Initially he still woke and cried but like you say its SOOOO much easier patting or cuddling them without having to get up and get cold which fully wakes you. I had to completely throw out the worrying about him self settling etc.. what matters for everyone is that you get enough sleep in order to enjoy life. Dont worry about bad habits and what other people say!! My DS still sleeps with me.. he has always been a light sleeper but he just likes to have comfort.. nothing wrong or weird about that! Keep on with the co-sleeping and good luck.

This was my DS 18 months ago so I can really empathise, just reading your first post brings it all back.

I was very limited in what I could do to settle him as we live in a tiny house wiht thin walls and every time he screamed he woke both my DD, and my neighbours DD who I had to see everyday in the playground. At 13 months we did controlled crying (having warned the neighbour first) and it worked.

He always slept best when I had an airbed in his room. When he screamed I would bring him in with me (I know it was bad) and he would sleep for longer. I didn't want to do it every night though. He is still a very clingy and affectionate little boy, he needs lots more love and reassurance than his sister did.

In retrospect he also needed less daytime sleep, just one nap rather than two. Later at 15 months we had the choice of a daytime nap and a disturbed nights or no daytime nap and sleeping through. He is now 2.4 and hasn't had a regular nap for at least 7 months. Occasionally he will fall asleep when out, but thats usually a sign he isn't well.

He also wasn't eating enough or drinking enough due to intolerance and fussiness, his sleeping got better when I introduced an evening snack.

But he is a lovely sleeper now 7.30pm until 8am, gets excited about his bed (he has a Care Bears duvet cover which he chose himself and loves) and can easily get to sleep himself despite all the lack of routine and broken 'sleep rules' from his first year.

Utmost sympathy from me. You literally sound exactly like me with my DS1. He was the same until 18mo. and it was pure torture. I could 'cope' with getting up 3-4 times but more than that and every day ended up being like walking through treacle. My DS had reflux quite badly so we ended up getting into bad habits of rushing in when he first woke up and having to keep him upright after feeds meant he tended to fall asleep in our arms. Anyway....I think you sound like you've reached the end of your tether. So action needed.

What is daytime sleep like? Do you have a routine for naps? How does he sleep during the day and what do you do?

So at night he goes down awake and falls asleep by himself? But then wakes up an hour or two later - ad infinitum? Sounds like he's over-tired and only going through 1 sleep cycle, possibly 2 before he wakes up. He goes to sleep OK first off as he's so tired, but then hasn't learnt that night time is night time. I think some form of 'training' would help. (I take it that teeth aren't an issue or reflux, etc)

Personally I wouldn't go the co-sleeping route - it may be easier to settle him when he's just beside you, but you both need quality sleep. Some people get quality sleep that way - but I don't but my 2 are very squiggly sleepers and I'm a light sleeper.

We did consult a sleep consultant that had helped a friend out - she gave free advice over the phone as in our case at 18mo she said all she would do was cry it out (go in once, say night night, then leave them) as at that age that was the 'only' effective thing (not sure that's the case...but that was her opinion). So she didn't want us spending £500 for her staying a week for something we could do ourselves. Younger babies she'd do other things - prob CC or CIO I guess.

Consistency really is the key with anything - have a plan and stick to it to the letter. Make a log of what you've done and how long they've slept for once you've started your plan. Sometimes its difficult to see progress and give up unless its written down.

I also was taking 2-3h to get to sleep - went to Dr for sleep advice for DS and myself and he prescribed a sleeping tablet that made me able to fall asleep and get back to sleep but made me not so asleep that I wouldn't wake up as soon as DS did. DH was always there as back-up too. They were pretty good at helping me manage for a while.

We did hardcore CIO in the end. My end of tether was i) minor crash of car cos I was so tired and ii) a split second where I thought shut up and feeling like I could shake him - didn't - but scared me. And I thought....there are worse things than crying. It took 2 nights of hideousness (1-2 h of crying, a couple of times during the night), 3rd time better, by end of the week he was transformed and by 3 weeks our lives were literally transformed. It was very hard to do, but he was the same happy smiley little boy in the morning and it gave me and my DH back our lives. I didn't feel like crying all day through tiredness - we signed up for classes, saw friends and did things - not just got through.

Not sure at 11mo what I'd do - probably CC again but with serious plan. Maybe CIO if I couldn't cope. But you just have to do what's right for you. Co-sleeping may be it (friend of mine's DS slept with his gran for the first few years - and why not, worked for them!). My boss slept holding his son's hand at the side of the bed for the first 5 years of his life!!! One other thing might be that at 11mo - once he starts walking and being more active he'll naturally get more tired and fall asleep better (other friends have found that too - so it can happen) I don't judge anyone's way of sleeping, but you have to be able to function and have some quality of life.

Anyway.... it will get better eventually. Sorry for the essay !!!

Oh last thing....I really worried about having a 2nd DC....but he slept through the night from 9 weeks!

Yy to intolerances and sleep. DS is (now mildly) intolerant to dairy/soya and was a bad sleeper. We were on our knees. When on holiday he slept better - perhaps the fresh air helped? Certainly does now and he's 2.3

It's not unreasonable to think he just wants your company during the night - he'll be more tired at the start of the night plus you've stuck to the same thing every bedtime.

For night wakings, spend a week at least either him in your bed or keep him in his cot and sleep in his room. For every waking, quickly resettle (I used to sleep on a fold out bed next to DS's cot) and stick your hand through the bars as soon as he stirs. After a while hopefully he'll be used to you there, resettle faster then eventually he will be used to sleeping for longer stretches... We had to do this with DS when he moved to a bed and now he doesn't need us unless he's ill etc.

It is also worth contacting your HV as they may have a local sleep clinic (they did in our area) which will be free. They ask you to keep a detailed diary of food/naps/sleep etc for a couple of weeks first, so it may well be worth starting this now.

they advised me the following-

Do not let them sleep past 3pm

Put them to bed at 6.30pm

Do not give them 'windy' foods past lunchtime.

And this actually worked! I also agree that your child may have intolerances to certain foods. It is possible that something is hurting in the night (with mine it was trapped wind). When you pick them up, it dislodges the wind, and this might be why he stops crying when you pick him up. You can also gently 'cycle' the legs so his thigh presses on his tummy, this can help ease wind too.

There is also the 'no cry sleep solution' or pick up put down (which didn't work for me but may for you) if you don't want to do controlled crying in the night.

Good luck

Please do see your GP / HV and ask for a referral for sleep. Tell them just how desperate you are. Don't give a hoot about their opinion - ask for the referral 'yes or no' - when put on the spot like this they all tend to baulk at saying an outright no. Remember that they are often trying to save money in not referring you.

Lastly, does your baby crawl. My son's sleep did not really improve till he was on the move and was physcially exhausting himself during the day. You may be at that awful bit where - they are just about to start moving and have loads of energy but no outlet. Do loads of activity during the day - pre lunch and after lunch.

Do not offer too much milk at bedtime as it could well be that he/she may have digestive issues. I was giving the mother of all bottles to my baby at 11 months hoping it would help - but actually cutting it down to 6oz really helped. If you are breastfeeding could you express? Of just knock some minutes off the feed.

Apart from that - I promise you at some point you will sleep again!

Sorry to hear what you're going through. We used something called the Sleep Sense programme - it's kind of like gentle controlled crying. I've just sent you the details as a private message.

I agree with cakemixture.
Stick to a method, if you are doing controlled crying at bed time then keep doing it when he wkes in the night until your DS gets the idea - don't keep chopping & changing which is confusing for him. You are giving in before he gets used to going back to sleep.
Also - don't start taking him into your bed unless you intend continuing with that, otherwise you have another habit to break later on.

I could have written your post word for word re my 11mo ds. I too was breaking point and decided to try cranial osteopathy. Worked wonders within 1 week. Ds never slept more than 2 to 3 hours without waking. After 1st session, he slep 5, 6, 7 hours straight over three nights and is much easier to settle if he wakes. There are many threads on mn about how it helped. Of course, it does not work for everyone. If you are based in London, google OCC putney. It is a charity and you pay what you can afford. Keep us updated.

Reiterating that you need to do the same CC in the middle of the night as you did at bedtime. If you follow Richard Ferber's book, he gives guideline times to wait, and each night the first interval gets a bit longer, I think, as do the subsequent intervals. We were exactly the same as you when DS1 was 8 months - we were just so unhappy and tired and I was going back to work. We were absolutely consistent, and he was sleeping through the night after 4 nights. He also went to sleep at bedtime and naptime with no problems before we did the CC. On about the third night he woke a few times, and grizzled/cried, but we didn't get to the first 'interval' before he went back to sleep.

Total sympathy with you! I remember how draining it can be, although thankfully several years ago now.

One thing i found was that ours would all wake up when they were cold, having kicked off all their covers.

I know we're all totally paranoid about over-heating our babies, but when we're all sleep-deprived that has to be dangerous for them too, so you need to find a middle ground.

One blanket and PJs doesn't sound overly warm to me and might explain why he can drop off to start with in the evening and sleeps ok when its warmer during the day, but as his body cools down during sleep at night he starts to shiver and it wakes him up.

Obviously don't stick him under a 24 tog duvet, but it may be worth an extra blanket or at least a vest under his PJs, especially at this time of year. Worth a try at least?