<sigh> I want to talk about my son.

[QuintessentialyHollow]

He will be 10 in April.
We thought he would really be behind when we returned to the UK from Norway, after 3 years away. He left at the end of year 1, and came back in year 5. Meanwhile, he had to start at year 1 again in Norway, due to starting school at 6 there.

He has experienced awful bullying in Norway. He has problems socially with getting along with the kids here. He just does not quite see how to behave "right". He is easily upset, and is faffing about a bit in class.

His teacher says that by now he is in the top set for both literacy and maths. He enjoys school work and his homework. He started seeing a tutor in January to close the gaps in his learning, (although his teacher said he did not need to, he did not feel confident and could himself point out areas where he had no prior knowledge). Today his tutor says that he is learning so fast that she has started going outside the curriculum with him. He is multiplying fractions and working on percentages.

I have had numerous talks with both his teacher and the head. They say he is academically brilliant, kind and gentle, but then at the same time show an astounding immaturity, and is prone to silliness and emotional outbursts.

He sometimes does not seem to have the same grasp on reality as the other, and when recounting and experience or what somebody has said or done, he cant remember it right.

I dont know what to do. He is a great boy. Loving and kind. But, at the same time he gets into the strangest incidents in school, and let himself be wound up by other kids.

And I dont know how to parent him. I love him so much, and I cant seem to get it right.

I can't really offer any advice on your son's behaviour, as I only have a baby and so am not that experienced. But you say you love him so much, and I think that is the best thing a parent can offer. I am quite sure it is nothing that you are doing wrong. I hope someone comes along with more help for you soon.

I'm not sure how to answer this one but didn't want you not to get a response as at this time of night things can play on your mind can't they?

My first thought was to wonder how you are measuring his immaturity. I only ask as lots of 9/10/11 year olds are still quite emotional and silly. My eldest who is 11 certainly is although he has mild AS so probably not your average 11 yr old. However, I have friends with children of the same age who are just as daft at times. I don't know if we expect too much of them and all the silliness is normal. Your DS has been through a lot with the moves and the bullying and maybe he doesn't feel like he fits anywhere at the moment or how to behave and so his 9 yr old silliness is more obvious than in other children who perhaps confine it to their parents and home!

And then I wondered if because he is very bright and academically capable you might be expecting more of him, even though he is only 9? That isn't a criticism. I know I tend to do that with my DS2 who has always been very capable and reached milestones very quickly. I forget sometimes he is only 8 (even if in his head he is 18) and that he is no different from any other 8 year old emotionally and socially. Sometimes we just have to remind ourselves that despite their abilities they really still have a long way to go.

If you and the school are really concerned maybe it might be worth getting assessed by an educational psychologist to get a measure of his abilities both socially and academically. It would help you to work out how to best deal with him. Don't see it as a negative thing though - see it as a way of making sure he reaches his potential but doesn't do it at the expense of his childhood.

And I think you do know how to parent him - you love him and you want the best for him and you are trying to make sure that he is happy and fulfilled. You sound to me like you are doing just fine.

I could have written parts of that myself. My oldest is a 9 yo boy, will be 10 in March.

He is loving and kind. His closest friend is his 4 yo brother. He does have friends at school but he isn't really like them iyswim. When his sister hangs out with her friends, I can see that she is just like all the other little girls her age. DS is not like the other boys his age.

He is very bright but it doesn't come across academically. He has recently been diagnosed with a learning disability (from an ed psych report) and also on the ed psych report it suggested getting an assessment for Aspergers. I have been saying he has Aspergers since he was 4 and people would look at me like I was mad. It also said there was an attention problem, and I know from homework that I have to sit next to him and constantly direct his attention to what he is supposed to be doing. It isn't universal though because he will sit in front of an entire DVD of David Attenborough documentaries and be mesmerized and later be able to recite back much of what he has seen. He cannot sit still at all, he can't sit at the dinner table, he can't just sit and watch TV he has to be constantly moving and squirming.

However, the main bit of your post that struck a chord with me was that you love your child so much but don't know how to parent him. That is exactly how I feel so very often. I love all my kids (there's 4) but he is the one I struggle with the most, I think because I can kind of 'get' the others whereas I think I just don't 'get' him in the same way. Even when DD has stormed off in a monumental strop over something very small and silly, I can relate to how she is feeling, I can rarely say that about DS.

I'm not sure what to suggest. Is it possible he is just bored at school and then he gets silly because he is trying to break the boredom?

You're concerned about your child and that makes you the best mother there is.

Thanks for your replies. The school has initiated that we go for a meeting with the head, the class teacher and the senco. Maybe they will suggest an educational psychologist, if they dont, I will suggest it.

He seems very troubled at the moment. He is upset that other children are making faces and gestures at him, but when discussing this more, it often turns out that this is because he is fidgeting in class and doing silly stuff. So it is a reaction to him, and his behaviour, but he cant see this. And even if we do explain it to him, it still does not stop the silliness. He just does not seem to get that making paper airplanes in class, and tripping up a classmate, are things he should not do. And he complains to me that the other children keep tripping each other up, and then just laugh, and if he trips somebody up, they run to the teachers to complain. I just dont get the whole thing. The entire winter they have been grabbing his hat of his head, and ran around throwing it to one another. The playground teacher has just shrugged. He changed his hat to one that sits more tightly on his head, and they still try to rip it from his head. He is very frustrated, he says they just cannot let him in peace.

It is about to ruin our lives. I feel so sad, and unable to concentrate on work. I dread pick up time. I wish I could just scoop him up and take him to another school. Again. But I just dont get what it is that he is experiencing the same shit now in TWO schools?

My DS is often full of tales of the woe he befalls at the hands of his classmates. He is quite prone to exaggeration though (I know this because he does it at home). Not saying that what DS tells me isn't happening but rather that I don't think 5 classmates ganged up on him at recess and murdered him. I have witnessed the taking of the hat and throwing it to each other over his head thing though and I ended up getting right down into the face of one of the kids that was doing it and told him to knock it off or else. And then I had no idea what else to say or do and was quite relieved that the kid just wandered off, then I waited anxiously for the police to come knocking for days afterward. My DS does seem more settled at school now though and the tales are fewer.

I think what made the difference to my DS is that he made a friend. Just one, but it made a world of difference. Since then he has made other friends. From what I can see, DS does not realize that he is different from the others and for the most part the other kids are just accepting him how he is now. And I have noticed that my DS is starting to figure things out for himself as well. One day he had a friend over and DS was rabbiting on endlessly about something and then he very clearly said 'but now I'm going to stop talking about that because A probably isn't interested in it' and he happily went onto a different topic. It was such a huge breakthrough and he has no idea that he did it but I almost cried.

I wonder if you could 'engineer' a friendship for your DS, by inviting over a child from school perhaps? Maybe he is better able to cope socially in a one-on-one situation? Or maybe get him involved in outside activities so that school is not the be-all and end-all. My DS went to Beavers and then Cubs, and that has helped him to settle also. They have been small groups with lots of adults around and bullying and the like have not been tolerated at all.

I have tried to extend invitations for play time after school and tea, but have been met with mumbled "oh yes, that sounds nice, maybe in a few weeks we can sort something out". The thing is, the other parents don't seem to want their children to play with my boy. I think we are pariahs. Ds was wrestled to the ground by one boy, and asked him to F off. (My son is very slender) The other kids heard this, and of course ran to headmistress. They have also told their parents. It is an RC primary, so we are now looked down upon. The parents barely acknowledge me in the playground, so I am not going to do this. There was also a leaving do for another kid before Christmas with both parents and children invited, we were the only ones without an invite. I was left out of a coffee morning back in September. So, now there is an invite for another coffee morning, that has included everyone, I am not really keen on going. So, I dont really know what to do!

Yikes! Shame on those parents, I'm glad to see they are showing good christian values. In that instance I wouldn't be putting myself out to get to know them either!

DS had lots of anxiety around school so for the first two years I homeschooled him, he only went back to school about 18 months ago. [And I feel I should say that I am in Canada at this point] This did me a world of good tbh. The homeschooling for DS not so much because we struggled with the work and I didn't know what the problems were, thought he was just being stubborn, but it has given me the pov now that if the school pisses me off I will just take him out. That was very liberating!

I think you should persevere with the inviting kids round thing. I know it's awkward, believe me I hate school pick up and trying to make small talk with people! but you will not be the only one feeling uncomfortable and left out, and the more you put yourself out there and invite kids round, and later (once you've had a coffee together or two!) share your concerns about your sons behavior/friendship troubles with the other mums, the more they will try to understand him, and perhaps (hopefully) get their kids to look out for him. Persevere - don't worry about the knock backs, just keep asking your son who he thinks is nice to him/doesn't cause him bother, and then approach the relevant parent (without your son present if possible -maybe just after dropoff) and just be honest "my son's mentioned how nice your son is, and he's really lacking in confidence about having any friends at the minute, so could you ask your son if he'd like to come to play or if I could take them to the soft play sometime?" Most people care - so hopefully you'll get a yes pretty quickly - and as soon as he has a regular playdate he might start feeling more settled. It is so hard - my son started a new school in october and we're just getting there now. Good luck, hope the meeting goes well and that you do get an EP referral.
Oh, also, ask the school if they have a social skills group he could attend, and if the playground assistants are trained in leading playground games etc - if not suggest they F'ing well get trained - and ask if he could get a Yr6 buddy to look out for him in the playground, if the playground has a "buddy bench", if there are any lunchtime clubs he could attend, etc.

It sounds as if he is trying to fit in - with the tripping people up, and throwing paper planes - but somehow just not quite getting it right. He may well be right that other children do it and get a laugh, when he tries it goes wrong.

Social behaviour is so fine tuned even at 10, that you only need to get it a tiny bit wrong and others will pick up on it straight away, - and it's terribly hard for those children who don't quite get it right.

Have you read 'The Unwritten Rules of Friendship' - it's a book I've used before and it does have some useful tips, - it will help you pin point areas that you DS is struggling with socially, and practice them with him.

Despite the first review, it's not a book specifically aimed at parents who's children have asperger's - it covers a wide range of social difficulties that children often encounter.

Good luck.

HTH

sorry, link here

I was about to suggest the same book as KurriKurri, it has helped a lot with my dc's.

Oh Quint

Don't give up!

Do everything at once.

1. Meeting with school (arranged) to see if there is a diagnosable problem.

1. Keep making efforts with parents, you MUST go to the coffee morning and charm the arses off them and tell them of your worries. Get them on side, tell them how ds was bullied in Norway etc, get their sympathy.

It does sound like ds has probs relating to the other dc. It can be worked on, just hang in on there and beg people to help you.

The worst thing you can do is cut yourself off in your misery.

It does sound like a classic Asperger's profile - academically ahead, emotioanlly immature, unable to sustain friendships and seen as a bit odd by his peers.

I am not attempting to diagnose your DS over the internet (promise!), but I do think you should look into a proper assessment of his needs.

Good luck.

I actually have that book. (thanks for reminding me) I ordered it from Amazon while still in Norway, and I think I packed it, so it must be here somewhere.

The host of the coffee morning is one of the two class reps. They smile at me through pursed lips, if they have to acknowledge me.

It is all so wrong.
You see, the nanny of one of the classreps was friends with the au pair I had let go prior to returning to Norway. (Nanny still there, she has been with the family for over 4 years now) She has no doubt fed the nanny friend tall stories about us, which has been relayed to this mum. I cant do anything right. We should not have returned to the same school. Not that I expected to be welcomed with open arms, but we were a normal family, who had made normal friendships with the parents, my son had playdates, I did not expect this. We return, and we are given the cold shoulder by both parents and children. I even have one child walk straight up to me and ask "Why did you come back?" The only thing I feel guilty for is not keeping in touch with any of them. But I was so overrun with the issues of my parents, I did not manage to keep in touch with anybody really.

I just dont know what to do to turn the situation around. For my son, and for us.

Right.

Go to the coffee morning and burst into tears. Tell em what you've said here.

I wish I could. It might end up that way, against my will, and I will embarrass myself thoroughly. The class rep who is hosting doesn't live far from me. She takes a different route home in order to avoid walking with me, if she sees we are leaving the school at the same time.

It has come to the point that I am begging my husband to sell our business so we can return to flippin Norway. Who'd have thought.

You have to pull yourself together.

Why does this woman avoid you? What onm earth could the au pair have told the nanny that's so bad?

Hully, the au pair was Norwegian. She was from a very middle class background. We had a 3 bed end of terrace. It was not big. The au pair was constantly talking about her parents fantastic house. The friend who was a nanny for current class rep had her own nanny flat at this familys house. Both partners in a law firm. They are wealthy. Every time au pair baby sat for other families, she was boasting about these fab homes. When she went home for Christmas, she fell in love with a boy. After that she lost interest in her duties.

She would not take my youngest to activities I had paid for in advance, like Little kickers football, she would bring him home instead. She was to pick him up from nursery at 12.30 and take him to football. I was working from home, so this was very inconvenient. He would fall asleep in the bus, so she would leave the pushchair in the hallway for him to sleep, while she was playing nintendo or reading. She would make him (2 years old) a big mug of tea, and let him stand with the mug infront of him, as he patiently waited for the tea to be cold enough to drink, while she continued to read the book/play nintendo.

When we went away for half term, she suggested her parents might come to London. I suggested they stay at our house. She was thankful and invited her sister and her new baby along too. That was fine. When we got back the house was in a state, all the bedding was left for me to deal with. It was not her job to change beds she said. She did however tell me that when her father opened the front door, he had said "my god, do people really live like this?"

Her job was to get up in the morning with me and the kids, and help in the morning with breakfast and getting them ready, and help prepare lunches. She did get up. But she only made her own breakfast, and insisted I would have time to do both the kids lunches and breakfasts, while she read her book at the breakfast table.

She was lazy and rude.

I told her this was not working out, and she would have to leave, as she was no longer performing the duties she was meant to perform.

I have NO idea what she told the other nanny. But it must be something, as I cannot see any other reason why these mums are behaving towards me like I was dirt on their shoe.

oh dear lord.

Are there any mothers you could approach to get on side?

Might be a case of divide and conquer. Find the most sympathetic looking mother and arrange to go to the coffee morning with her. It would be great if you could have had the school meeting by then so you feel that you have a plan. When joining in the conversation, I would say 'well young quint has had some real settling in issues this time around, but now we have this plan. I wonder if you can help me out with this - not sure I can do it on my own' and then say NOTHING and wait for a positive response. You would hope someone would step forward. Hopefully part of the plan at school will be to buddy him up and involve him in stuff to get him more integrated.

Your post sounds so sad and you are having an awful time. People can be heartless and selfish but there must be one parent who isn't like that...one that would be more open and kind - it sounds like you are getting really paranoid and that is an awful feeling. Can your dh take the morning off and go to the coffee morning with you - you might feel more relaxed with a bit of support. Good luck with getting some support for your son

Quint what an utter mess. :(

I agree that you have to go to that coffee morning, beyond that I don't know what to suggest because I am crap at things like this.

Perhaps if you are just normal and chatty then things will start to normalise?

Jesus Christ. I don't know how some other mothers have the time to concern themselves over stuff that is just so petty and ridiculous! It's like some people never left school.

I do agree that there must be at least one mother that is decent. If there's some kind of gossiping going on behind the scenes there must be at least one person that is feeling uncomfortable about it. The trick, of course, is to identify that person.

Having read all this I don't think that not attending the coffee morning is an option. I think you have two options there - either go in and go for their sympathy, or go in with head held high and act oblivious. And in each case you will be charm personified.

Do you know when the school meeting will be yet? When is the coffee morning?

Big hugs. You are a good parent as you are trying to get help for your DS.

The school mums sound horrible but you will find someone, maybe join one of the school PTA events just to meet some of the other mums.

Does sound like high functioning aspergers, my DS got hs diagnosis aged 9 and he is very selective in who he sees outside school. Maybe join a couple of clubs held within school and outside and he will make a friend or two. It just takes time but he will be accepted.

My son is a bright boy but he just doesn't get the playground politics and friendship issues that happen so he does tend to stick to a few known friends who accept him for who he is. It will happen but takes time.

Stay strong, keep his confidence up, and chase up diagnosis.

You are right. I should go to the coffee morning.

I did actually bump into his teacher in the swimming pool today. My sons were showering in the communal area and she walked up to talk to them, so I joined them. She asked if I had managed to speak to the head, which I hadn't, as receptionist told me the senco would coordinate a meeting.

She did tell me that she has spoken to the parents of the children who keep snatching his beanie, and the parents of other children who do annoying things to him, so I am not the only parent spoken to. She also told me he will have a session with the senco every tuesday from now on, just to chat and offload about things. They will also allocate him a "safe" area where he can retreat to if he feels frustrated. He has been moved away from a girl that keeps saying stuff like "do you think I am pretty", "Do you fancy me", "Stop staring at me" etc, she was sitting right opposite him , so he said it was pretty difficult NOT to look at her from time to time.

She reassured me that he has made friends, and suggested one boy in particular that he has lots in common with, both temperamentally and intellectually, and suggested I talk to his parents about arranging play dates. This boys mum is very nice, and don't seem too influenced by the others. And to keep at it with extra curricular activities.

He does a lot actually. He is in the school choir for lunch time club. He is doing plenty of after school clubs, such as touch typing, football and verbal reasoning, (that did not go well, his understanding of the finer nuances of English is too rusty, whereas he on the other hand speaks so well that people have a hard time understanding that he might not understand something. Since September, he once again sound like a Londoner born and bred)

I am feeling a bit more positive. The school is doing things to help him.

However, the teacher told me today that in future, if he starts misbehaving, he will be excluded for the rest of the day, and they will call his parents to come and pick him up.

Do you know, is there a limit to how many times a child can be excluded before they are expelled? Is it such a thing as three strikes and you are out?

He is adamant that it will not come to this. From now on, he will be on best behavior to avoid exclusion.

We have also instigated a special reward chart for good behaviour in school.

What else can we do?