<sigh> I want to talk about my son.

[QuintessentialyHollow]

He will be 10 in April.
We thought he would really be behind when we returned to the UK from Norway, after 3 years away. He left at the end of year 1, and came back in year 5. Meanwhile, he had to start at year 1 again in Norway, due to starting school at 6 there.

He has experienced awful bullying in Norway. He has problems socially with getting along with the kids here. He just does not quite see how to behave "right". He is easily upset, and is faffing about a bit in class.

His teacher says that by now he is in the top set for both literacy and maths. He enjoys school work and his homework. He started seeing a tutor in January to close the gaps in his learning, (although his teacher said he did not need to, he did not feel confident and could himself point out areas where he had no prior knowledge). Today his tutor says that he is learning so fast that she has started going outside the curriculum with him. He is multiplying fractions and working on percentages.

I have had numerous talks with both his teacher and the head. They say he is academically brilliant, kind and gentle, but then at the same time show an astounding immaturity, and is prone to silliness and emotional outbursts.

He sometimes does not seem to have the same grasp on reality as the other, and when recounting and experience or what somebody has said or done, he cant remember it right.

I dont know what to do. He is a great boy. Loving and kind. But, at the same time he gets into the strangest incidents in school, and let himself be wound up by other kids.

And I dont know how to parent him. I love him so much, and I cant seem to get it right.

I think that all sounds very positive, Quint. Not loving the exclusion bit, although if it works...

How does your reward chart work, is it x number of good behaviour days and then a treat of some sort? I have heard very good things about that kind of strategy.

No, I am not loving the exclusion bit either, but if that spurs him on to think a bit more before tripping kids, or throwing paper planes and generally being disruptive, then so be it.... But he is worried now.

We have a special reward chart we use for mountain hikes, long bicycle rides, etc. He (and his brother) have been getting challenge points for each such activity we do, that is challenging. Such as a 7 hour climb to a mountain peak, or 25 km bicycle ride to the outdoor pool, and back.... In 2 years of this they now have around 150 challenge points. Each point is worth £1. They can buy ANYTHING they want with it. Ds1 is saving up for a play station. Ds2 wants an x box.

We will do a similar scheme with behaviour in school. Every day he behaves well, he will get 1 point. Bad behaviour, he loses ALL. I dont think these points can be worth as much as a pound each though, as this means we have to pay him literally £20 a month.... What do you think?

I don't know, I'm rubbish at punishments and rewards. But i do think well done, it osunds more positive and get onto that other mother like a DEMON. And go to the coffee morning. And keep us posted. xx

I've just read this thread from the beginning and thought I would be posting to say that the school really seem to be letting your son down so I'm very pleased to read your latest posts.

At last they seem to be doing something positive. Your son is in a very difficult position as the "new boy" and from the way you describe him he is different to his classmates and ime at this age there will always be problems.

I think you should give the school's suggestions time to work and do the reward chart, could you do half points just to keep the cost manageable. Although if you can afford it maybe £20 a month would be worth it for a happy child.

I hope you see an improvement soon.

I'm crap at this stuff myself. :) The ones I have heard about are things like every day that is a good day you get a tick in the box, so many ticks add up to something special. The ones I have known about have been aimed at toddlers so the prize is stuff like stickers or smarties. That wouldn't work with my 9 yo! I guess the prize has to be something that will motivate your DS. Is he motivated by money? My DS is very motivated by special trips so the promise of a trip to a wildlife centre would be motivating for him.

I am wondering if the school would be able to have the same exclusion policy for him if he actually had a diagnosis of some sort? I would hope not.

Forgot about the coffee morning, how you approach it I think depends on how many others will be there. If the numbers are small enough I'd suggest waiting for a lull in the conversation them just being honest about how unhappy your son is and ask for their help/advice. If its a large group I'd try and pick the most receptive clique and try and get them on board.

I don't think taking your husband, as someone above suggested, is a good idea, if this happened at any coffee mornings I've been to everyone would think you were a bit bonkers. But maybe things are different in that London

I live in London and yes grown men can drink coffee

janx - you cosmopolitan types are so much more open minded than us bumpkins, husband at coffee morning in my neck of the woods would be seen as most odd . Husband of host may pop his head round the door if working at home but mustn't engage in any conversation with the guests other than polite hello how are yous.

I think a husband on a coffee morning in this neck of the London woods also would be most odd.

Are we still in the 1950s

the thing that stuck me the most is that you and your son are dealing with the same things really.He is working out playground politics and trying to find friends and so are you.Relocation can be hard.He will be slightly different and that can make other children unkind or wary.They all have established friendships too. As you have found the same applies to the adult part of the playground.To me he doesn't sound on the autistic spectrum,he sounds like he's trying to fit in with a new group as an outsider and as I went to a few different schools I can sympathise. As other posters have said,one friend will be all it takes to get the ball rolling,and that applies to you too,so smile at any likely looking parents at pick up time.you sound very stressed and low,and that makes it harder to be jolly and friendly,but you will feel loads better if you find another parent you really click with. You sound lovely btw,I would chat to you in the playground!

Oh Quint, I just wanted to add my support.

It sounds like the school are taking the right steps in helping your DS though. He sounds very similar to my DS who has mild AS and he was threatened with exclusion a few weeks ago and it really shook him up and made him apply more control over his behaviour at school.

We have used many reward systems, and at the moment he earns 50p for every day he doesn't get into (major) trouble at school. What I would advise though, and this is from getting lots of advise from the SN boards, is do not take away rewards already earnt if he misbehaves. If he earns one point for a good day at school, you can't take it away at a later date for a bad day at school, it won't help. He simply doesn't earn the point that day, but don't take away what he has earnt.

Good luck, I hope things get easier for you.

I did a post a while ago similar to Hellymelly although I am not sure what happened to it as it isn't here!

Anyway, I also suspect that your DS is suffering a bit from being the new kid. For some reason he hasn't got on with the class leaders and so all the other children are giving him a hard time too because nobody wants to break rank. It is definitely the case if you get just one person on side the rest will follow. Could it also be that if your DS has been to the school before he didn't behave quite as a new boy should and the others took umbrage with it? They will be much more established in their friendship groups and hierarchy than they were when he left and he might have (perhaps unconsciously) tried to carry on a bit as he left off and put a few people's back up? It is a shame the teacher isn't helping him out though - she should see what is going on and take control to stop the rest of the class ganging up on him. His bad behaviour seems to be as a result of being an outsider trying to fit rather than any particular desire to be naughty.

I think the threat of exclusion is a bit harsh. Does he get any warning or is he out for any misbehaving? I would want to know they have something like a traffic light system first so he isn't being sent home every day. Why are they not taking him out of the class room for some time out first as well? Exclusion should be a last resort imo. It seems to be all about the punishment and nothing about addressing the cause of the bad behaviour. I don't know how other schools do it but it wouldn't happen like this at my DS's school - it is a rare occurence for a child to be excluded.

ooo yes, very much agree with don't take it away, just doesn't get one that day. He feels bad enough!

It doesn't matter if your son has Asbergers or not - he is being bullied, and so are you. My limited experience of such things is that there is likely to be a small clique who are causing the problems, and everyone else is either a fellow victim, or a reluctant follower. So as the others have said, try and identify who these are, for both of you - if you can find a mother and a son who are both being singled out by this horrible atmosphere, then you have a likely friendship. Unfortunately you may have to try with a few different mothers before you get there.

I had to do something similar at playgroup, and I have a friend now who used to dash out of her car, drop off her boys, and dash straight back in again to avoid the bitches at the door. She was almost pathetically grateful when I did approach her for playdates. However, I tried two other mums first who didn't turn up when they said they would.

Try as hard as you can, and keep trying until you make some progress. Hopefully you will make a new friend as well as your son.

I did go to the coffee morning. It was a very low turn out, but it went ok. It was nice.

Interesting you should say that Mummypig, because I did that with my son last night. We have narrowed the problems down to 3 children out of 27, another two who he sometimes get on with very well and sometimes not so well. But this is common with friendships I think, so I told him he should not worry about those two. He was quite encouraged by the fact that he is totally ok with 22 out of 27, semi friends with another two, and that there are only 3 he absolutely does not get on with. And I know other children have problems with these three. (One of them is the dd of a celebrity, or sports personality, a very cocky and overconfident girl) This means that he is a lot happier, and went to school quite cheerful this morning.

good news Quint!

That's great, Quint! I bet he must be relieved to realize that it isn't everyone he has a problem with, just a select few.

Well, it is all great in Theory.

Yesterday he got told of for poking a class mate in the back, twice, during a lesson. For no reason. I just dont get why he does these things.

Today a boy in year 3 (they do afterschool club football together) kept showing him his middle finger, and asked him to lick his arse a few times. My son told the after school club teacher, the other boy accused my son of lying saying he never did these things. My son got so frustrated that he threw the football into his own goal, and was excluded from the rest of the game. His teacher came and saw him excluded, asked what happened, got the story, and instantly told my son off for showing bad sportsmanship.

Honestly, wtf can we do??

:( I have no idea what to tell you. It sounds like he might have some impulse control issues and possibly the teachers' opinions of him are coloured by what they see as deliberate bad behaviour. And it also sounds like he is being picked on by a number of different children.
I don't blame him for being frustrated in that situation.

Maybe he just needs coaching on some coping skills: How to cope with boredom. How to cope with lying bastards. How to cope with name-calling, etc. If he is easily wound up then he makes a great target for the bullies unfortunately. If he can learn to rise above it then they would lose interest.

" If he can learn to rise above it then they would lose interest."

That is exactly what I keep telling him. Yet, it makes no difference.

I told him today that next time somebody says or does something annoying, he should just think of chocolate, cream, and mountain biking and turn his back and ignore it.

Not sure what other coping strategies I could suggest?

Having read through your dilemma, I can only add my support as my son (also 10) sounds very similar; was suspended for a short time a while a go and I am constantly nervous about his daily behaviour at school. The school has put in place a plan but luckily I work as a teaching assistant in another school and have had some suggestions from collegues and work with some lovely but different children. So here's a few for what they're worth and hope they might be useful:
Is there a general lunchtime club? some schools have them for children who find socialising tricky - they can play board games etc. under the supervision of staff who help them with social skills.
Some of our children have a slot in the day with an assistant to go and exercise (stretching, ball throwing etc.) it is useful for those who find sitting still for long periods difficult. Its only 5-10mins a day but I can catch up with individuals, find out how their day is going and it gives them a break. Others have stretchy putty which they can fiddle with during teacher talk time - recognising they need to fidget and keeps hands busy!
Make sure he knows what is "good behaviour" as this can be too general for many children - I need you to..... and perhaps just remind him of one thing a day
Lastly (and perhaps only as a last resort) we have had children join us in year 6. Often those who have had poor experiences at other schools. It can give them a fresh start particularly if there have been terrible personality clashes. It might be an option. Hope this helps and best of luck.