Please help, extremely worried about disturbed (? not sure) 8 yo who isn't sleeping well, but don't think this is just a sleep problem

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Please help. The background is that I've been working away during the week for the past six months. This comes to an end in 3 weeks time, the 9th Feb. Dh has been coping admirably but understandably, it's affected the children, ds, who's 8 (and not dh's, he's from my first marriage) and, less so, dd, who is 2.

Over Christmas, when I was here for nearly 3 whole weeks without working, ds started waking up at night, which he's never really done before. He doesn't just come for a cuddle, I could live with that and it would be understandable, he shouts and screams at the top of his voice, wakes dd up and calls us names. He sits on the floor and refuses to move if we're downstairs or, last night, he stood outside his room and shouted so loudly he woke dd up. Dh is knackered and pissed off and so am I after the past few nights. (I've been at home because I've been off sick) I've asked ds if there's anything bothering him and he says not, I've asked if anything's wrong at school and he says not, I've asked if there's anything he's not telling me and he says not. He likes his school (although the last 6 months have been odd as he's gone to after school club for the first time but he does like it there), he has plenty of friends, sees his father every other weekend, loves his sister and gets plenty of positive attention from me when I'm here and dh when he's here and in charge.

Just typing this has made me realise it's almost certainly about my being away isn't it? So maybe it'll change once I come back (although there may be a perm job and it will mean relocating about 150 miles if I take it, maybe he's worried about this, we have told him it's a possibility, is this what we've done wrong? Probably.)

We have tried a star chart and it's not working after 2 weeks - I was briefly hopeful but its effects were short lived. ONE night he managed not to wake us when I bribed him with a comic but then he's reverted to waking again. We've threatened taking things away, it doesn't work. Sometimes, at first, he seems half asleep and then I can sometimes get him to go straight back to bed without properly waking but more often he wakes and screams at us. We're at our wits end and dh asked me to post. What can we do? In the middle of the night he is so HORRIBLE, calling us idiots and worse, it is unbearable. We have tried cuddles and gentle encouragement back to bed, we've tried getting cross, what else? Has anyone else experienced this and what did you do? Aplogies for length of post. TIA for all and any words of wisdom or advice.

You know wwww, his night terrors might not be to do with anything in particular. Your working arrangments might be totally irrelevant. As mothers we feel guilty a lot of the time (it's a generalisation I know, but a pretty accurate one, I think) and tend to think if anything happens with our kids, it's our fault. I feel obscurely sure that it is my fault that ds is dyspraxic, for example. But you don't know and they could quite easily be unconnected. I have met Blu's little boy and he radiates happiness, yet he has them. He's a very secure, well loved little chap.

agree Aloha

poor you www - if they are night terrors, it still seems strange that he only has them at home and not at dad's or MILs (but then he is going to bed much later and may be going through different sleep patterns).

Plesae don't feel guilty about it. We all do what we can - dh worked away a hell of a lot when our kids were small. They didn't like it but they dealt with it. When they got upset, we used to have a rocket countdown thing on the fridge so they could cross off the days till he came home and then dh used to take each child out individually for a treat (like an ice-cream, something small but something they would like) so they had something to look forward to.

I'dtry melatonin and use it to get back into a decent sleep pattern. IN the UK you need a consultants prescription, but you can buy it on the interenet from the States (from health food shops etc) and get it shipped over. YOu'd probably only have to use it for about a week. If you can get slow release you could give it at bed time, otherwise when he wakes up.

Well - I'm with the majority on this one!

DD also used to wake up in a complete state - jabbering on - agressive if touched etc, yet seemed to us to be awake.

We did get to the bottom of it - it was when she felt the need to go to the loo but never woke up enough to find it!

In the end as long as we directed her to the toilet, let her perform, and then take her back to bed - she didn;t really properly wake up at all and have no recollection of it in the morning. It really was like she was possessed, and very scarey the first few times she did it. One night in particular we were so sure she was having some kind of a fit we were bundling her in the car to take her to A&E when she wet herself and just fell asleep!

I know why you might think it is because you have been working away, and I'm sure your DS does need lots of reassurance etc, but please don't load all this guilt on top of yourself. You did what you had to do! It is ending soon and you will get your family life back to normal!

Take care!!!!

Thanks again everyone,and beasmum, sorry, I over reacted to your post, sorry for being so touchy, I was the one who said they were prob connected, I can't exactly take issue with anyone who disagrees with me! Sorry. We are all knackered. Ds and I made a calendar with a photo of me on the days I'll be here over the next few weeks and he and I can see it's not long to go. And we had a nice couple of hours together and I told him I thought it was night terrors and fix able and he looked so relieved poor lamb. HE doesn't remember them and he said 'I don't want to do it mum' which just makes me think that is what it is. Dh is sceptical but I'm going to ask him to read this and some other stuff I've looked at. Thanks again everyone.

Bless him, hope you are feeling a bit better too

Well, there you are www. Night terrors. Not your fault! So happy you posted and you sound much more cheery now. I wouldn't mention them to ds again tbh. Everyone says they are absolutely terrifying, but not harmful.

agrees with me I mean. Thanks puff.

Glad you're sounding happier, hon He'll be fine and so will you.

WWW, I don't have anything more to suggest than has been said already, but I wanted to offer you some sympathies as one mum of a troubled 8 yo to another.

You know we moved to your area recently, well, nearly a year ago now, but you wouldn't believe it by the way ds2 continues to react sometimes. He was very upset to leave his old home and friends, and every so often the misery rises to the surface again and I find myself comforting him as he cries and I end up crying too. Ours isn't the same situation as yours and ds2 isn't having night terrors, but he gets stomach aches and cries, and those things alone are unusual for him, so I feel I know what you are feeling, as you watch your son exhibit his insecurities and worries in his way. It is so hard, isn't it? I feel responsible for ds2's misery in the same way that you feel it for your son's, but both of us only did what was the best for the family and you have to hold on to that thought.

Hopefully, you will be able to put your son's anxieties to rest soon.

Batters, he's at his dad's until tomorrow night, we'll see how it goes when he's back tomorrow, I'm going to see if I can avoid terrors by waking him half an hour before they'd usually happen, will report back on whether it works.

WWW I haven't read all the posts but just wanted to say that I am thinking of you and sympathise. DS woke up 1/2/3 times a night from birth until he was 5 and a half and although he didn't have night terrors as such (or what I have read them to be described as) it was terribly tiring and wearing.
His sleep definitely deteriorated from the age of 2 when we moved to NZ because for almost a year he wasn't settled (staying with FIL and scary step witch in law, then rented house, then a box room for months until his room was decorated).
Things improved when he was 4 and I finally gave in and gave in a very bright night light ... he had developed a real phobia about the dark ... which is a reason why I want to stick something sharp into Bloody Gina Ford and her Bloody Black Out Curtains!
We also developed a star chart that had small achievable rewards (treat after 7 stickers ... didn't have to be in a row..., another after 14 and another after 21 ... they were treats along the lines of outings ... movies, mini golf with Daddy etc etc)
It would work for a while and then things would deteriorate again and then we would have to start again.
It was finally resolved when we moved house again and he had a 'lighter' room (light coloured walls, we cocked up in the last house by painting the walls a dark green which made it pitch black at night) It is almost like daylight in there now ...
And then the final thing was introducing the Pasta Jar ... 1 piece of pasta = 10 cents and with earning pasta for sleeping all night and NOT calling out even when he woke up and other good behaviour (being kind to his sister etc, eating well blah blah) it added up to pocket money at the end of the week. That solved it ... my son is obviously financially driven
I don't know if any of this will help but wanted to tell you what we did in case anything was useful.
Hope you get it sorted soon ...
{{{{}}}}

Doh ... have now read some more of the thread and see that it is clearly terrors as he has no memory of it (DS definitely knew what he was doing!) ... sorry, ignore my post ...
Ho hum ... still thinking of you though and am sending positive vibes from this side of the planet

VIBES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

hi www, just caught up with this. I have no experience of night terrrors, but reading the messages, (yours and everyone else's) it really looks like a case of night terrors. Ok it might be your job that's set it off but really you know it could have nothing to do with it.

I was going to suggest, just for your peace of mind if nothing else, that you took some time off 'sick' over the next three weeks. But as your permanent job is linked to your contract job, I see this is not a good move.

As you know, I worked long hours for 2 or more years when my oldest son was aged 3 - 5. True, his dad was a SAHD, but for 6, sometimes 7 days a week, I was working (if not all day, then some of the day). My son never had night problems and at that time, did pretty well socially at nursery and school. He was a lively handfull and I beat myself up over this, wondering if me being aroung more would stop him from being so hyper.... then I was around more, working an average 5 days a week.... then I was a SAHM for 18 months when he was age 6 1/2 to age 8...and that was the worst time behaviourally we had with him, at home and at school, so me being there all the time did not make a lot of difference.

You could well find this night terrors thing will continue after you change jobs - who knows? I think, until then, you should see it as a phase, a phase that might well have happened whatever your job situation. And agree with prufrock that is is so unfair that mothers should get blamed for something that many fathers do as a matter of course.

Thank you Tigermoth and Ghosty. Dh and dd and I have just spent FOUR hours tidying and cleaning his and dd's room - god, it was a TIP. We've also taken the black out down (so interesting to come here and read your post Ghosty, I do wonder if he's started to be afraid of the dark too) so we'll see how we get on tonight when he's back. When I get back to work tomorrow I'm going to ask for (and I will get, I'm a contractor) the next 2 Fridays off so I am only doing a 4 day week for the next 3 weeks, which works out as another 9 days away since I stay here at home on Sunday nights and get up at 5am. And then we are off on holiday for a week at least, I may have the following week off too so be at home for longer. Of course, we may then move house which will be a whole other kettle of fish but at least we'll all be living together again. I feel calm because he's been away for 2 nights and I have slept! Thanks all for your help, it makes a huge difference. I'll report back at some point.

The future looks much brighter, then, doesn't it? it's so good that your hard work has paid off and you can look forward to a permanant job near home. If you hadn't gone for this job, you and everyone could have been looking forward to a much less hopful 2006.

Glad for your sake you can cut down your hours. It may not, of course, stop the night waking but at least you will feel better. Your time at work (so away from home) for the next few weeks probably works out less hours than those of many a London communter.

WWW, I came back to this thread as I have just spent half an hour holding DS who has been screaming as if he was being tortured, eyes wide open, arms fending off unimaginable horrors. It always shakes us, but its always the same.
And I remembered that as well as having a stuffy nose, he is also over-tired - another trigger for terrors.

Do you think that is is a bit ever so slightly possible that your DH lets your DS stay up late-ish while you are away?

Anyway, also to say I think you did brilliantly acepting this job when the family had no other income sourse, and well done for getting through it.

Your calendar with pics sounds lovely.

And it sounds as if you have everything very well sorted out now, so well done.

Don't necessarily think of him as troubled www - and honestly, it is very likely this has nothing to do with your work. It may not have been an ideal situation, but really, night terrors are certainly not he prerogative of disturbed kids, as Blu proves.
My ds is scared of the dark. He certainly isn't disturbed in any way. I think it's normal. Hey, I'm scared of the dark.

I am sure you are right, Aloha. Spurred by this thread, I have been doing a bit more research into terrors, and some are set off simply by partialy waking somene in stage 4 sleep.
The lisght disturbance of coughing or stuffy nose is enough to do it. it is a reaction to disturbed sleep - not a disturbed life.

(and thank you for your certainty re BoyBlu - I do HOPE he isn't disturbed, despite his living in-role as an oompa-loompa for long periods...)

Oh, he's FANTASTIC Blu. An original mind, plenty of imagination, but a less disturbed child it would be hard to find IMO.

Haven't read all the thread, so sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick, but have 18 years experience of night terrors!

dh started with them at about 2yrs and still has them. They are always about 1.5 hours after he falls asleep, during deep sleep unlike nightmares.

One of the triggers in his case is over-heating, either too warm in bed or a fever. The first ever one was terror of a star fish after seeing one on the beach. His words aren't usually coherent during the terrors, usually gibberish.

I just used to keep the lid on the terror by repeating over and over that it was just a dream and not really happening. Cuddling was no good, it just made it worse as I became the object of his terror. The signal it is all over is a yawn. If he doesn't yawn it isn't over and will start up again even if he appears to have calmed down. No memory of it whatsoever in the morning.

dh used to find it very disturbing but I can't say it bothered me - better than nightmares that you remember and make you scared of going to sleep again.

During his teens they changed - they are now very rare (2 or 3 per year) and he is aware they are happening and comes to me to talk him through them. He used to race around the house during very bad ones so I was worried what would happen at uni, however he just got on the phone to me!!