Please help, extremely worried about disturbed (? not sure) 8 yo who isn't sleeping well, but don't think this is just a sleep problem

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Please help. The background is that I've been working away during the week for the past six months. This comes to an end in 3 weeks time, the 9th Feb. Dh has been coping admirably but understandably, it's affected the children, ds, who's 8 (and not dh's, he's from my first marriage) and, less so, dd, who is 2.

Over Christmas, when I was here for nearly 3 whole weeks without working, ds started waking up at night, which he's never really done before. He doesn't just come for a cuddle, I could live with that and it would be understandable, he shouts and screams at the top of his voice, wakes dd up and calls us names. He sits on the floor and refuses to move if we're downstairs or, last night, he stood outside his room and shouted so loudly he woke dd up. Dh is knackered and pissed off and so am I after the past few nights. (I've been at home because I've been off sick) I've asked ds if there's anything bothering him and he says not, I've asked if anything's wrong at school and he says not, I've asked if there's anything he's not telling me and he says not. He likes his school (although the last 6 months have been odd as he's gone to after school club for the first time but he does like it there), he has plenty of friends, sees his father every other weekend, loves his sister and gets plenty of positive attention from me when I'm here and dh when he's here and in charge.

Just typing this has made me realise it's almost certainly about my being away isn't it? So maybe it'll change once I come back (although there may be a perm job and it will mean relocating about 150 miles if I take it, maybe he's worried about this, we have told him it's a possibility, is this what we've done wrong? Probably.)

We have tried a star chart and it's not working after 2 weeks - I was briefly hopeful but its effects were short lived. ONE night he managed not to wake us when I bribed him with a comic but then he's reverted to waking again. We've threatened taking things away, it doesn't work. Sometimes, at first, he seems half asleep and then I can sometimes get him to go straight back to bed without properly waking but more often he wakes and screams at us. We're at our wits end and dh asked me to post. What can we do? In the middle of the night he is so HORRIBLE, calling us idiots and worse, it is unbearable. We have tried cuddles and gentle encouragement back to bed, we've tried getting cross, what else? Has anyone else experienced this and what did you do? Aplogies for length of post. TIA for all and any words of wisdom or advice.

Puff, we do have webcams, but often by the time I get back to London at night he's in bed. I could send him letters, that would be good. I leave notes sometimes when I sneak off at 6am on a Monday morning. During the week I leave London at 7.15am for work when dh is in the bathroom so we couldn't do a netmeeting then either. I speak to him several times during the week. God, that sounds terrible doesn't it 'I speak to him several times during the week' - no wonder he's fucked up, he's my son and we've never had this long apart before. He did say a couple of weeks ago 'I don't live with either of my parents and I don't like it.'

WWW we are having similar problems with dd2 (6). I have recently started working evenings and so dp has to put the kids to bed 4 nights a week.

On the nights when i'm not there dd goes to bed without much fuss. Dp said she shouts a couple of times but then goes off to sleep. However, on the nights I am not at work and i put her to bed, she goes nuts, screaming and shouting at me not to go downstairs, stamping her feet, smacking the walls etc.

She has only started this since I started work, and the rest of her behaviour has deteriorated alot too, so me working must be the cause.

Haven't really got much advice to offer as dd is still doing it. Where possible I try and ignore her but thats easier said than done, if she is waking up her siblings. We are also doing a star chart, but that is getting mixed results to at the moment.

If i hit on any new ideas, i'll let you know.

Nutcracker, thanks. Do you think this is to do with we're there so they feel safer because we're there and therefore they know it's ok (though it's not, obv!) to kick off, because they're safe? Sympathy, I'm not glad it's happening to you but I'm glad I'm not as alone a sI thought.

It must be very hard on all of you, but take heart from the fact that you are going home soon.

Spending quality time together has obviously already been mentioned - I wonder if you could make sure he has a treat with you each weekend - eg cinema together or trip to interesting place, just to help him through these last few weeks. I don't think there's any point in setting conditions to this ie he needs to go to bed and behave. I suspect he just needs as much love as you can throw at him without any strings attached and then when you are back home, things will hopefully get back to a more even keel.

you poor thing www. This sounds such a shame after you were so stressed about this decision in the first place.

Firstly are you SURE it is your being away that is doing this - he's not poorly, or being bullied or anything?

If not then its the being away - or maybe the wedding? Could this somehow be linked to you being married to someone who isn't his dad? Hate to suggest it as I know he loves your dh dearly.

sympathies and will be following thread x Enid

He's def not poorly. I don't think he's being bullied, I have asked and he's (thank god, long may it last) a pretty poor liar so I really think he's telling me the truth. I do think it's got to be the being away, oh shit and I wonder if he's heard me saying 'if I die on the M1...blah blah' - that would explain a lot wouldn't it? I hope not but you never know. Doubt it's the wedding, dh and I have been together 6 years and it hasn't really changed anything. God, I bet he's heard me saying that when I didn't think he was there. I think I'll collect him early tonight (working from home so not supposed to but hey, not supposed to be here either) and spend some time with him before I get dd.

Yeah i think thats is definatly part of it www.

I was always the one to do bedtime, always have, since she was born, so to have me suddenly not do it for 4 nights a week, is just a bit too much for her i think, and so when I am there to do it, it's like she wants to make the most of it and keep me up there with her all night.

Thing is, i dread putting her to bed now, which makes me feel even more guilty.

I am starting a parenting course on 2nd feb, and I honestly can't wait for someone to give me some help so I can deal with her properly.

Enid, we honestly had no choice about my taking the job in the first place either, really, believe me. I have declined another 3 months there and only did the 6 months I was obliged to do.

that would so explain it www

go and get him tonight and tell him that you know he is worried and that you want to plan loads of nice things to do with him. Make it a joint project

I'm a fuckwit if it is that

Www - really sorry to read this! I think lots of people have made some really good suggestions - a few things that came to my mind -

was there anything that triggered the waking up? Was it after you told him you might relocate? I know he really likes his school and his friends, so maybe he is worried about that.

Could it be sleepwalking /talking? I do both (though much less than I used to), and do most when unsettled - and dh says I am always REALLY angry in my sleep. I wonder if he gets up in his sleep and is then confused and the anger is part of the confusion, which if he's feeling unsettled anyway might make things worse.

I think a calendar is a fantastic idea - something where he can see the days being ticked off. And 3 weeks really isn't that long - it's only 15 days of work!

Could he have a special role in looking after dd during the week, so he feels like he's doing part of your job (and therefore closer to you?).

If he only does it when you're at home, maybe he subconsciously feels that it will make you stay at home somehow. He's had so many changes in the last 2 years or so, it would be quite surprising if he didn't have some sort of reaction! And it shows he loves you!

Sorry you've been ill - hope you're better soon. I'll keep thinking about this. xxxxxxx

Thanks Tortoiseshell, I must do some work now or I won't even last the 3 weeks. I wouldn't mind but I've got a bonus, hence staying til the end of it. I'll be back later, thanks so far all.

Oh darling. How heartbreaking. I think this is most likely to be purely and simply about missing you and wanting any kind of attention he can get from you, even if this is negative. I think this is v understandable given that he is seeing even less of you than dd & dh because of his fortnightly trips to see his dad. I must say I think I'd go for total throwing of love and affection at him in the short term and put off discipline until you finish the job/feel ready. Why don't you make this weekend ds weekend? Tell him it's his weekend to do what he likes with- he gets to choose activities, food, when he goes to bed, etc and as long as they are realistic and affordable you will do whatever he wants? You could have a slumber party with him on Saturday night with food and coke (you could put vodka in yours) and movies and see if you can stay up all night? And talk a lot about the brilliant things he chose to do and how fab he is- I know you are superb at doing that sort of thing and i bet that is what ds is missing in seeing a bit less of his wonderful mummy than he'd like. I think this could be a short term way just to underline how wonderful you think he is- I know he knows already but we can all use reminding sometimes.

As soon as you are settled back at home i think you'll need to get quite a strict, predictable routine in place for him and, though he may kick against this at first, it's my bet he'll settle reasonably quickly. In the meantime I'd suggest a very calm, whispered, bored "Shh ds, back to bed" with no eye contact while leading him back to bed.

Have not read the whole thread but my DS2 is 8 and sounds similar, although voicing it in different ways. I am so lucky that I work from home but occasionally I have to travel during the day - I can't take him to school or pick him up but am back about 7pm. He HATES this and gets worried and angry for days before if I tell him I'm going. I think it is a control thing. He feels out of control as I "have" to go and I obviously enjoy it. Recently he said I had to choose between him or my job, which shows he sees it as competition. Really we are so lucky he doesn't have to go to childcare, as it is always my dp who takes the time off to look after him. However, DS2 sees this as second best and voices this, which isn't good. I'm hoping it is a phase, but he has always been a "mummy's boy". Not much to say to help, but maybe it is their age and the feeling of a loss of control?

Penpal idea a relly good one.

also perhaps the 'if I die on the M1 might be part of it.

gawd poor ds.

My ds2 was in a terrible state when I was away for a couple of weeks. We didnt find out ntil 3 weeks later what was really the matter..he missed us..bless him.

btw. dh is wawy for the next 3 months like you ..week days. and i have insisted this year that he phone the kids everynight.

www any chance it could be something like night terrors? have a look here

Its more common in younger children but even adults can get them.
Just a thought

www, you have my sympathies.

I came onto MN today as my ds's behavouir (7) is really getting me down. He's a complete nightmare about going to bed, he has a major tantrum every night and there's no reasoning with him. He just goea Jeckyll and Hyde. Last night he was mad that we said hw couldn't have everything(!) on his birthday list and we'd talk about it nearer his birthday (which is in May), he just exploded at this. Dh has asked him if there are problems at school, he says no.I'm at home all day so it's not the working thing.
Only explanation thing I can think of and it may apply to your son is that when my ds is tired he's really crouchy and unbearable. Maybe all the night wakenings has left you ds really tired and frustrated too?
I read a post on MN about someone's dh who was a teacher and they said their dh has noticed boys aged 7-8 get really angry if they feel they are not being treated fairly and that really hit home with me. My ds blows up if he feels he's being treated badly, but of course his idea of fairness is him getting his way all the time!! Maybe your dh sees the work thing as unfair and this is all a reaction to it, kids don't get our point of view do they?
Let us know how you get on!
ssd x x x

My ds 9 went through a phase of nightmares/ night terrors every night when his best friend moved away. He'd wake up ( or semi wake up) screaming and crying, appearing completely lucid but not being himself at all. Coming in to our bed was the only thing we found that would stop it happening repeatedly through the night. Like your ds he claimed and appeared to be completely happy at school etc and we just put it down to a growth spurt combined with the upset of his friend going. Then suddenly we realised it hadn't happened for a few days and it seemed to stop just like that I'm sure you'll find the same and we'll all move on to the next mysterious phase that they throw at us!

Aaargh www, this all sounds horrible (and sort of familiar) Can't write much because the baby has just woken up but agree with pretty much what everyone has written - lots of unsettling things happening recently. Think 8 is a "challenging" age - hormone surges to contend with, peer pressure kicking in etc plus what's being going on at home for you all. (My 8-year tried to kick the baby yesterday and then boasted about it at bed time. Don't think we've had one morning this week without a row before school)

I know you say getting married might not be a problem but it might have emphasised the family unit of you, your husband and your daughter? My 8-year old will sit on one settee whilst we might be on another and say "Oooo, look at the little family over there"

Agree, do lots of you and him stuff, spoil him a bit. If I go out with the eldest she'll often say, wistfully, "Just like the old days mum". She loves my partner and the baby but I think just needs the reassurance that she's not been replaced or relagated in the love league.

Good luck. At least the end is in sight.

www, only just seen this. What a nightmare - poor you and poor ds (though you must want to kill him when he kicks off like that in the middle of the night). I honestly can't think of anything to add that hasn't been said (though I will think about it some more) but I hope you get to the bottom of it. Definitely think you need some quality Mum and Son time. We've (ie., dh and I, not the Royal We) have been trying to do this with ds1 lately. It's been hard because he can be so sullen and uncommunicative sometimes - took him to the cinema to see Harry P and Narnia and ate out afterwards both times and he acted throughout like he would rather be anywhere than with us I think 8 going on 9 is a bloody difficult age, I really do. They're inbetweeny - not little kids, not teens. And they do worry about stuff so much - ds1 was in a complete state the other night about all the troubles of the world which he seems to want to put on his shoulders.

Had a lot to say for someone who had nothing to add, didn't I?

Yes Tinker, you're probably right, I think he is jealous of dd AND he loves her, it can't be easy, I hadn't thought of that family thing. I'm going to take a half day today and collect him from school I think. Thanks too Scummy, ssd, Sherbert, beety, aggiepanther, shimmy and batters for your kind words. They all help and writing it down has made me feel a lot calmer about it. I might see if he wants to stay here this weekend instead of going to his dad's.

You can say thankyou for my kind words too if you like

WWW This sounds so horrible for you all, really sorry.
The first thing that I thought when I read your post was Night Terrors. DS is younger , but has always suffered sporadically from Night Terrors, esp whan feeling stressed. The thing is, it fools you because you are SURE they are awake. They have open eyes, look at you, move from room to room. DS shouts things, usually no or not this or not that. Any room we take him into he shouts to go back. Any physical or verbal contact from us simply acts as provocation. We find that the less we intervene the faster it subsides, but it is very spooky.

It was the sleepwalking connection, and the fact that he is so 'negative' and out of character that made me think of night terrors.

The thing you have on your side is that this will pass, and stop, once you are based at home again. I can see that this poses terrible dilemmas for your family....another bridge to cross

I certainly wouldn't impose any sort of sanctions until you are sure it is not the upheaval of you being away.

This is obviously so hard for you and dh - but you have been doing the best you can for your family, making all the various ends meet. In the longer term, he will calm down and feel snug again. A terribly hard period for you, but try not to beat yourself up too much.
XXXX