Worried about son (4YO starting school)

[Billynomateswontbemyfriend]

My son, who is 3.8YO appears ambivelent to the outside world.

He's clever, no doubt about that - he knows his alphabet and numbers and can spell 3 letter words but it's always on his terms. If he doesn't want to do it: MELTDOWN.

I didn't send him to preschool last year as he wasn't really that dry and his speech wasn't great either (still isn't, to be honest)

I have him down for a school which requires an assessment (he didn't get in last year). My DS2 will start this year at the same school (he has had his assessment and passed). DS1's assessment is in a few weeks time. I am trying to be upbeat about it, but I am not sure if he will pass. Academically, he can do all the work they are doing, but, socially, he doesn't seem to WANT to and if he has an off day, then I am in trouble.

What options do I have?

I could send him to the local primary (assuming he got a place - which is by no means a done deal) but my feeling is (i) I don't want to send one child to a 'good' school and another to a 'state' school (and PLEASE this is not a discussion on whether you personally believe state or private is better / worse) and (ii) if the 'good' school (small class size, extra help etc) don't think he can cope with it, what chance does he have in a primary which is short staffed and over subscribed? He'll be lost.

I could home school... But I have no experience of this.

DS2 is desperate to start school so I don't want to knock back his admission because of DS1.

Of course, there is a chance DS1 will get in (My god, I am praying)... but I have no clue what the schools really assess against. If it's academic, then I'm fine. If it's ability to conform, then I'm really, really not.

Views?

I'm really open to suggestions.

I have absolutely no experience of assessments for selective schools so can't help you there.
But, just things of my 4yr 3 month son there isn't a chance you can enforce compliance on him. He will either "perform" on the day or not, and even if he gets in, do you think that the school will be supportive of him when he has his "off" days?
If you are not happy with the local state school are there other private alternatives that aren't so selective and can offer more support for social development?
Just out of noseyness how old is DS2? How can he be going to school when your eldest is only 3.8? Seems very early for a selective school to me.

-thinking- of my son, not "thing".

Does your DS1 go to any kind of playgroup, nursery, pre-school where he is expected to 'conform' (i.e. circle time, sitting down for lunch etc)?

Does your DS only have melt downs with alphabet, numbers things, or if he's asked to do anything that he doesn't want to do?

Are assessments really done for 4 year olds - or in this case 2 or 3 year olds given that your son failed last year? As an admission policy? My DD1 (who is 4 - August born) is at a private school and thankfully there was no such admission assessment there for Reception (I think from year 3 there is, I can't remember). I really don't think she would have got in I would have sent her there if they'd had any form of entrance test (unless it was for being utterly gorgeous of course! ).

I would also say that perhaps some extra help with your DS's speech might help and getting him to a good pre-school could help with that. DD1 has quite a marked speech delay but she has really come on leaps and bounds since starting school and that in itself has made her so much more confident and happy - she can be understood! (it must be so frustrating to know what you're saying but no-one can understand you)

Anyway, I wonder if there is just too much pressure on your son to 'perform'. He is obviously able but so many pre-school children can be quite OCD about things and it can be like try to drag a very stubborn donkey to get them to do a thing. What are the alternatives - is there just the one local private school and one local state school? Could you look slightly further afield to see if there is a more suitable school for your son? I personally think early years schooling should be nurturing and kind and supportive, encouraging very small children to learn - and teaching them how to learn. All the other stuff will come in good time (but then I am probably too laid back for my own good).

Aside from the school issue - you mentioned his speech. Have you been to see anyone about that - I ask because it may have an effect on social interaction, confidence, frustration etc. My ds is 4 and has a speech problem and it does have an impact on other areas...

DS1 is 3. DS2 is 2. And yes, formal assessments.

For entrance Sept. 2012.

Janx - we saw a speech therapist for a while who discharged us because she felt DS1 could say all the sounds (he can) and can speak slowly. It's just when he speeds up it ends up in a series of dahs and doos :-(

A 2 year going to school?

Are there any other independents available?

I don't want to be a voice of gloom, but if the school are that selective, I'd imagine that they'll also be pretty proactive in weeding out pupils that don't fit their particular "mould."

I'd be looking at other options as even if he does pass assessment, it'd be costly and disruptive if you had to move both boys after a few weeks/terms.

It doesn't sound like your son would find a super-selective school that good a fit at the moment. Maybe reasses at 7?

Sorry but I am wondering if a state school might actually be the best school for DS1. I wonder if there is more to his melt-downs than just immaturity or whatever, and in my experience this might be more easily picked up and better handled than a private school. Could this be why he failed the assessment last year? Have you talked to the school about why they didn't consider him suitable last year?
Could you save the money you save in fees aside for him, and use it later maybe for extra tuition or even specialist provision.
Again you can reassess at 7, and by then you will also know more about him, and be better able to find a school to suit him. Some private schools cannot cope with: any kind of SEN, or the super bright.
I know plenty of people who could afford private education for all their children, but at times have chosen state for their children, in some cases because it suited their children much better. (Including for instance 2 at very selective private, and then moving the younger one to state from her less selective private, which helped her get into a good school at 11, and she was much happier.)
Some super-selectives are good with "odd-balls", others are not.

Oh one other thing. Teachers do know they are "naturally" better in one kind of school rather than another. Some teachers thrive in schools where most pupil's mother tongue is not English, others love Prep schools, some love Country schools, others love ones in towns.
Oversubscribed doesn't mean over full, but just very popular (more people applied than got places). Is your local primary short staffed? Most aren't. I do know a public school that has just re-advertised for a head of Chemistry; a lot of private schools are training teachers on the job, just like some primary schools.
State schools do also have experience (and support) with dealing with any kind of "special" needs, which can just be "shyness".
You may have to adjust your dreams, but in my experience that is part of being a mother, kids are individuals and don't follow the script.

Just bribe him for the assessment - anything he wants. Mention a couple of times the day before the assessment that when he goes in to play the nice lady will want to ask him some questions. If he's a good boy and does everything the nice lady asks you will go home via the toy shop and choose a new train/car/massive lolly etc.

If he doesn't do as the ask at the assessment he's really unlikely to get in as they want to take easy complaint children.

Your 2 year old is desperate to start school? Really?

And with the best will in the world, how has your DS1 had a chance to learn about dealing with the outside world when you have kept him away from it?

I have a number of friends who are teachers and most say that state school is much better for any child who may have some sort of SEN. Most privet schools just arent setup to cope with any sort of extra help a child may need.

I think that solcilising and confidance skills are far more important at this age then academic achivement. If he's not happy in the enviroment you put him in he's not going to do well.

Alibaba

TO answer your questions:

1. Yes.
2. It's not from the lack of trying. I have tried everything from playgroups to tennis and spanish. I have not found a group he wants to join / participate in. He'd be quite happy never to speak to another child. Ever.

If 2. is the case Billy, I would look at other schools rather than trying to shoehorn into a school that sounds most inappropriate for him. A school which is selective at reception perhaps is not the best choice for a child who appears to need to be nurtured and gently encouraged.

Rindercella - I know. I do agree with you. I already know that, even if he gets through the assessment, it's only the start of a long journey. I just don't know of any other options.

I've left it too late for other preps (haven't got him on the lists anywhere else. We are west London, so highly competitive). Unsure of state (never really considered it), Not sure of other options other than home tutor.

FWIW, it's the 3YO who I'm questioning. THe 2YO has already been through hte assessment and been accepted. He can't wait.

Hi Billynomates, I am lingle. I have two academically advanced children who had major language problems. One of them outgrew the problems very naturally. The other one needed much more help. My husband (professor) and I both have academic backgrounds.

With the first son I just sort of pottered along. With the second I had to do a lot of "going backwards to go forwards" on the social side. I had to stop letting him play the piano (which he was doing with two hands below the age of 3 which is fairly extreme) and instead build up his weak social communication skills.

"he knows his alphabet and numbers and can spell 3 letter words but it's always on his terms."

this doesn't sound like a speech problem. This sounds like a language and communication problem. Is this something you have considered?

Lingle - Hi. No, it's not something I had considered, but I am happy to say that DS1 appears very advanced in some areas and very behind in others.

It would also back up what the SALT said. (No speech problem as such)

" DS1 appears very advanced in some areas and very behind in others. "

yes, my kids were/are like that. To be honest, I think I was too and it runs in our family - you or their dad might be the same perhaps.

good luck with the school thing.

Their dad. spot on. And his brother.

What did you do, if you don't mind me asking?

Dad's brother. Not DS's brother.

Has his social and communication skills been assessed in addition to his speech difficulties? The speech sounds more an immaturity-will catch up- thing but the complete lack of interest in being with other children may be a far bigger difficulty, and one that I would suggest needs professional assessment.

Should he pass the school tests thro good luck, or bribery (which I think would be a very bad idea!) he may not fit the profile of the school, if he attends and they find his needs too difficult to manage. Independent schools can be as selective as they like and it could be a miserable situation if he goes and cannot handle the social demands.

I'm not diagnosing (honest) but as someone who works with children on the autistic spectrum and having a son with autism myself, several of the things you mention do rather raise red flags.. early skills but poor language, everything on his terms..no desire to socialise. I might be way off base but I would speak to your GP or similar and ask about seeing a Paediatrician. Just incase..because if he does have a significant need then you may need to search for schools that can meet those needs.. not just somewhere that is good with bright kids.

Which incidentally.... state schools often are rather more geared towards!

Good luck!

Thankyou Medusa. I did think autism a while ago, but Paed feels No.

Children were both born privately so both under Paed rather than GP since birth.

I feel AS is a real likelihood.