Does anyone else have a DS who really really wants to be a girl?

[skidd]

DS has just turned 4 is is currently being assessed for AS/HFA which may or not be related. However, he is obsessed with the idea of being a girl. He wear his sister's pink pyjamas, insists on a 'girlie' duvet cover and pink sheet, asks me daily if he can try some lipstick, and wears a princess dress over his clothes most days. This I can cope with, in fact I am absolutely fine with. What I find slightly more disconcerting is his insistence that he will be a lady/mummy when he grows up, wanting to wear actual girls clothes (as in tights/leggings/skirt etc) to school and out and about (we have said yes a couple of times but I can't bear the looks he gets, although he is oblivious). He gets very upset if we say he can't wear girls clothes and very very upset if I tell him he is a boy and won't grow up into a woman (I even told him about sex change operations on one occasion when he was getting really distressed about it ).

My questions are:

• is this common and if so do most boys grow out of it by say 6 or 7?
• Should I just let him wear what he likes and bugger what anyone thinks?

The second question is difficult because he is already quite vulnerable in the sense that he doesn't have friends and children are inclined to tease him due to his unusual (ASD-esqe) behaviour anyway so obviously I don't want to fan the flames. But at the same time I want him to know that we love him for who he is - and if he turns out to be a cross-dresser/transexual (I mean who knows?!) that's fine.

Any opinions very welcome

Hmm maybe not then?

I dont know, I know that my dd2 couldnt tell if people were boys or girls at that age.
My dd's both have autism but dd2 went though a stage of insisting she was a dog! Went on for a while, even to the point of at nursery she would only ever play with someone if they treated her as a dog :(

Personally i would let him wear what he wants for now. Clothes are generally an issue for most asd kids, so are you certain its not because girls clothes feel nicer and are prettier?

It isn't entirely uncommon. Have you come across the Mermaids support group?

Thanks for your replies

ladymuck - yes I have looked at the mermaids website but wondered if I was overthinking it and it is very common for little boys to feel like this - maybe not?

lisa - yes it's hard to know how much is due to his (possible) ASD and how much is just him. A friend who does autism research said it wasn't that he liked dressing etc as a girl but rather that he seems completely unaware that it is socially unacceptable/unusual for a boy to wear a dress every day

MrsMicawber - yes I think that is the issue really - it is a fine line between pandering/allowing him to be himself and saying no/sending the message that his feeling are wrong/unacceptable and I suppose that is what I'm struggling with. I agree it is best not to make a big deal of it but I feel like he is already making a big deal of it by kicking up such a fuss when I lay out trousers for him etc

Would love to hear from anyone who has had a similar experience...

Can you dress him in more unisex stuff? ie jogging pants, sweatshirt tops in bright colours and see how he reacts to this? It may be the blandness of boys clothes he objects to. The best person to speak to woudl be your doctor and get advice from there. I agree it needs to be handled sensitively and MrsMicawber's advice is good about not making an issue of it. I haven't had any experience of it myself and I think you are best asking professionals x

This is an American resource, but I think the advice is sound. Love and affirm your child for who he is, and avoid adding to the already immense pressure to conform. (That said AS/HFA isn't something I know anything about).

Ds2, 8, is fairly pink. He goes to a school with a uniform, so tights etc aren't an option, but definitely looks to change when he is at home. His friends at school are typically tomboys, but in general he is a popular and well-liked child. He has an aversion to sport, but seems to get on with the sporty boys in non-sporty activities. I'd like to think that we're fairly accepting of his preferences; so far his older brother has been too, but in the last year or so he has been less so.

We assumed that he would "grow out" of it, which he hasn't. We've not turned it into an issue, and so far it hasn't become one. Ds1 is into rugby and swimming, ds2 likes gymnastics and drama. I suspect that provided your dh isn't sport-mad (and therefore offended at a son who isn't), there are plenty of activities which will allow your son develop into the person he wants to become without putting him in a box just yet.

That said, we do still get comments from visitors when they see our huge Barbie collection...

Totally normal. Even is totally normal if this behaviour continues into adulthood. Some boys like girly stuff. It's hard, and will get harder the older he gets, but it's still normal. I get so cross when other people make negative comments about my son's love of pink and dressing up in princess stuff. He also has a doll (boy doll) that he loves to care for and dress. He's used to tell anyone who would listen that he wanted to grow up to be a girl, but that's now changed since he's been 6 - he now wants to be a train driver instead of a girl. It's probably just a phase - but nothing really to worry about (within him) if it's not - it's just other people who have problems with it...

Sorry - cross posts. Lots of boys go through some degree of a pink phase - it is just normal exploration. In a similar way Ds1 was a firefighter for about a year when he was 3/4. So it could be that.

My DD was just like (wanting to be a boy) until about that the age of 3 or 4. Not that she wanted to be a boy so much as that she intended to be one!

Just like your DC, I think she was influenced a lot by an older opposite sex sibling - she was a little girl and she would grow up to be a big boy, just like her brother obviously had! When told that she wouldn't ever be a boy she reacted as if I had just banned her from doing so, and was being most unreasonble. I had to talk to her quite a bit about the fact that girls grew up to be women,a and boys into men. It didn't seem obvious to her at all.

She did finally figure it out though - I remember her reflecting and saying "I'm going to stay with women".

She's still a tomboy (8 now) but no longer has any issues with the fact that she's a girl and will grow up to be a woman one day. Defining herself as a tomboy helped with that - an acceptable type of girl for her. It's a shame there isn't really an acceptable equivalent for a boy who's got girlish tendancies.

I would go easy on telling him he can't be a girl and just gradually do what you can to emphasise the (usual) fixed nature of gender - and the advantages of being a boy (peeing standing up, being one my DD felt she missed out on!). And let him wear what he likes at home, but help him to recognise the way other people may respond to him if he wears girls clothes in public. I think it really is tough that way round - my DD still wears boys clothes most of the time, but that gets a lot less comment than your DS probably would wearing girl's stuff.

I am having a very mild version of this with my 3yo who is insisting she is a boy, and refusing to wear anything to keep her hair out of her eyes. I don't take it too seriously, and I only ever offer her a choice of two things to wear.

Two things jump out from your OP, your DS doesn't have friends (and is so maybe not getting as much influence from a peer group as most 4 year olds), and has a sister. Maybe he is just seeking acceptance and not so aware of gender divisions?

I would insist on him following the norms for school etc, just because kids can be horrid and I'd hate for him to be taunted for the rest of his school days. I'd also try and find a way for him to access activities where he might be able to make more friends his own age. I hope you get support with helping him do that despite any HFA/ASD issues.

At 4 my DS was like this - He grew out of it when he was 5. :)

I let him wear his sister's clothes all the time, and bought him dolls, and pink duvet covers etc.

I do think it's related to his ASD, and I think it's incredibly likely he'll grow out of it.

DS1 is 9 and has severe AS. For a long time he was a lot more friendly with girls than with boys in general (I guess because they would mother him a bit with him being a tad awkward in social situations). I guess because he got on better with girls he wanted to be a girl. He never got to dress up as a girl as he has no sisters but happily has nail varnish etc put on at school discos (I don't have make up etc at home). Having said that apparently most of the younger boys get their nails done at the disco . Over the last year or so when he has become better friends with a boy he doesn't seem to be so obsessed with being a girl. He does still obsess over the female heroines in things - he prefers Amy Pond and River Song to Doctor Who, he prefers Hermione to Harry Potter etc.

DS2 (also HFA) age 5 however is convinced he is a cat. (As opposed to wanting to be a cat). He uses it to retreat away from people, I think it is easier to behave like a cat with no language when things get too much for him.

Sorry don't have personal experience of this issue with my dcs. But I do remember reading about an american programme working with dcs who wanted to grow up as the opposite sex or insisted they were the opposite sex. The programme worked with older dcs - from about 7/7 I think, but they told them about sex chnages, but encouraged them to think openly about their future i.e. you may decide to do this, but you may not. At the end some dcs grew up to be transexual, but some didn't.

Thanks all, some really helpful advice

LadyMuck - that leaflet you linked to is really helpful, thank you - it basically confirms everything I thought but wasn;t sure if I was right IYKWIM -accept him for who he is, be a safe haven away from other people's prejudices and embrace his differences. Interesting that it says most boys like this turn out to be gay (I always joked that I wanted a gay son ). Your DS sounds lovely btw

Purpleroses - I know it is so unfair that girls are 'allowed' to be boyish but not the other way round. I was a bit like your DD when I was little but like her I took great comfort in the idea of being a tomboy

HoleyGhost - thank you that is a really nice post I think you are right that he identifies with his big sister as he doesn't really have a peer group, I also think it is probably sound advice to encourage him to save girls clothes for at home although this does make me feel a bit uncomfortable - as if I am trying to change who he is or something

muttimalzwei - yes we do try and compromise with what he wears - e.g. he can wear a pink t-shirt but with jeans to school, and choosing DD's least girlie clothes which he still accepts because they are girls but sometimes he just has to go full-on bling (at home)!

indigo - that's interesting about your DS and ASD - I wonder how the two would be related - just lack of awareness of social norms?

neverending - yes I agree it is other people who have a problem with it but I am nevertheless a bit apprehensive about letting him out into a horrible prejudiced world dressed as Cinderella... [wimp]

crossed post LMG - yes I sometimes think it is a retreat for DS - as if the world is so confusing and scary but pretending to be a girl is simple and comforting

lesley - thanks, glad to know telling him about a sex change op wasn't such an awful idea (especially after a mum in the playground asked him if he wanted to be a fireman when he grew up and he said, No I be a firelady, I going to have a operation )

My db was quite like this as a child, he would regularly dress in girls clothes when playing in the house or at friends houses and he preferred our (myself and sister) toys. He also insisted on being called Lilian He did outgrow wearing girls clothes by the time he was a teenager but came out when he was about 18.

I don't have any advice directly on point, but this may help give some perspective.

I have no idea why this has stuck so strongly in my mind, but I remember when I was about 6 or 7, at school there was a child a couple of years older than us called 'Tessa'. I remember quite clearly having a conversation with my friends about whether Tessa was a boy or a girl. We thought she was a girl, but she had short hair and always wore track suit and t shirt. I remember that we decided to ask Tessa whether s/he was a boy or a girl, to which s/he replied that s/he was a boy.

I don't recall any malice or judgment in our questions, just curiosity, and even though we were sceptical of Tessa's claim to be a boy, we would still play with him/her when we played in a group across the age groups.

I would like to think that children of that age would still be curious, rather than judgmental, especially if your DS has the confidence not to expect hostility, IYSWIM.

Perhaps for now it doesn't matter? Rather than telling your son he will grow up to be one thing or the other, just tell him "you will grow up to be you" and try to place as little importance on gender as possible.

To cope with clothing for school or smart occasions, perhaps have a segmented wardrobe with fairly unisex clothes that are school clothes, so the emphasis is on the occasion he is dressing for, not the reason behind it. He can then have a freer choice for what he wears at home.

just lack of awareness of social norms? - Yes, that's exactly what I think.

A baby or toddler doesn't know what boys / girls wear / play etc.

By the time a child's 4 or 5 they're meant to have picked it up. But our ASD kids just take a little bit longer to work it all out :)

I have to say I was a bit worried at the time. But he stopped doing it overnight.

Probably because he got teased by all the girls in his ballet class who were in his school class

When he was out and about in his sisters clothes no adults were rude to him to his face (but they were very rude to him behind his back.) Obviously some kids were rude to him. And this is what it took for him to realise 'social norms'.

The mums who were rude to him, I no longer speak to :)

stella at Lilian (of all the names!!) My Ds likes to be called Jilly or Jelly depending on his mood and how hungry he is...

Thistledew: tell him "you will grow up to be you" - I like this - will definitely try that. Sadly I think there are some / a lot of children who aren't just curious - I can see it in their smirks , but I think you're right some children are just interested and that is nice

indigo - at parents being nasty - how did you find out? I am very impressed that you let him go out dressed as a girl, and I'm sure if someone said something really obviously nasty to my DS he might also start realising that it isn't socially acceptable. I don't know, I just want him to be happy and proud of who he is. He is such a gentle beautiful little boy who is never unkind to anyone - it breaks my heart that people will be unkind to him

Can I just say what a lovely Mummy you are and you are really doing a grand job with your beautiful son.

My BIL was like this as a boy and his parents were on complete denial. He is a gay man (not that he has ever told my DH his own brother) and is also a cross dresser (Dh found a video of him having a transformation done). My gut feeling is that he does have sexual identity problems and as a man in his early forties it seems a terrible shame that he lives in secret. He even has a partner who he just refers to as a friend, they live together and he has to keep himself away from the family because he is so secretive about it. Such a waste, it has really blighted his life. I have two other gay friends I grew up with who showed these signs early on and were both bullied by their families as a consequence. Both of them have had mental health problems as adults, one of them quite seriously.

You attitude is so loving and commendable to provide a haven away from the world for your child and to accept now that this could be a sign that he may turn out to be gay or have issues with his sexual identity. It could be just to do with ASD and will pass with time but however it pans out your love and acceptance is the best gift you can give him (and you would be surprised how many parents would deny this even in this day and age)

I have a little girl with ASD who is becoming as she gets older, less socially acceptable and it breaks my heart too that people can be so unkind to her - that really struck a chord with me.

Ds did between the age of about 2.6 and 4. At 4.6 he'd laugh if you suggested he was a girl now.

thank you brandysoakedbitch, what a lovely post. I hope you are right and showing him he is loved and accepted for who he is will help him be resilient again what may come. How awful for your BIL - do you talk to your DH about it - is he OK with him being gay/having gender identity issues? Sorry DD is facing prejudice too, people can be so cruel.

DeWe - My DS started around that age too so I'll see what happens in 6 months' time!

one of my sons went through a phase of wanting to be a girl. One whole summer when he was about 4 we had to call him by the girls name he choosen. He would only wear his sisters clothes and was as happy as larry!! We let him do as he wanted and after about 6 weeks he decided that he was related to seagulls and would identify his relatives to anyone who was interested. It was an odd summer to say the least, he is now 19 and has a girl friend. He now just wants to be free of A level and my nagging !!! We still tease him about that summer and he takes it in good heart. This might be what happens with your son or not but dont worry and bugger what others think hes your baby and you love him whatever. Good luck

When I was that age I was a boy! If my mum got my name wrong woe betide her. I didn't make it easy for her either as I had several names to choose from and would only tell her once, while she was helping me dress, who I was that day. I would be absolutely furious if she introduced me by my real name if I happened to be, say, Jasper that day, or if she didn't call me Jasper out shopping.

The disparity never occurred to me, of having long hair and wearing a dress, whilst insisting I was male. Some faces amongst shop assistants when I shouted "and I'm a boy".

(I'm not, by the way.andante quite definitely female and quite happy with that. Just to clarify, you understand!)