If your DS/DD had gone swimming with friends --- and one of them had held your DS/DD head under the water so they couldn't breathe .......

[RTKangaMummy]

If your DS/DD had gone swimming with friends --- and one of them had held your DS/DD head under the water so they couldn't breathe .........

What would you do when they came home to tell you?

DS is 10 years old and went to a swimming party on Saturday

There were 10 children all class 6 {some 11 years old}

The parents didn't sit near the pool but were in a cafe on the balcony

but the pool did have lifeguards it was a public pool and so had other children as well

Anway, DS had been playing with 2 friends and had tickled one of them {drew} - which had irritated him

And then drew swam away and ds played with greg

ds and greg swam in differnet directions

then greg and drew were splashing togehter and ds swam up to them and greg swam away

AND THEN DREW GOT HOLD OF DS AND HELD ONTO HIS HEAD {drew is quite alot taller and bigger than ds} AND PUSHED HIS HEAD UNDER THE WATER AND HELD IT THERE

DS COULDN'T BREATHE AND WAS STRUGGLING TO GET OUT OF THE HEADLOCK {drew could touch the bottom of the pool easily but ds could only just touch the bottom}

EVENTUALLY DS GOT AWAY AND WENT TO THE SIDE OF THE POOL WHERE 3 OF THE GIRLS WERE AND HE WAS COUGHING AND SPLUTTERING AND THEY COMFORTATED HIM {but they had not seen what had haoppened and he didn't want to tell on drew}

SO ANYWAY HE DIDN'T TELL ANYONE AND DREW WOULDN'T APOLOGISE COS HE SAID DS WAS ANNOYING HIM - WHICH DS ADMITS HE WAS TICKLING HIM

BUT IMHO TICKLING AND HOLDING SOMEONE'S HEAD UNDER THE WATER ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT

So ds comes home and won't tell us what has happened and in the end we get him to write it down - he is so upset and then tells us the whole story.

I phone greg mum to ask if he saw what drew did and he didn't.

The next day DH rings drews dad to tell him and to say that DS wants drew to apolodise

so on monday drew doesn't apologise, yesterday ds had his exams and is back to school today

DO YOU THINK WE DID THE RIGHT THING IN TELLING DREWS DAD ???

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE ??

WOULD YOU BE ANNOYED THAT THE PARENTS WERE IN THE CAFE NOT NEAR THE POOL ???

.

Does anyone know what goes through the heads of boys at that age?? He probably thought he was mucking about, giving him a bit of a scare. The thing is, you can't know how long he actually held your DS under for - it will have seemed ages to your DS and probably very short to Drew.

I'm really sorry this has happened, it must have been horrid for him, and I can see why you're worried. I agree with Soupy though, it's definitely not a matter for the police IMHO.

As an ex-lifeguard, there is absolutely no way I would leave children that age unsupervised, and I do think the girl's parents should have been on the poolside. You can't spot everything at all times as a lifeguard even when you're really trying, and your gaze is usually directed as much below the water as above it as you are checking for people not coming up. A mass of unsupervised kids that age is a nightmare for any lifeguard

Definitely a water safety lesson is needed. Good idea. They need to realise that some "horseplay" (I use the term loosely) is downright dangerous and stupid.

The school have a pool that they use about 3 times a week in the summer but if DH went in to say what had happened I think they may do an extra lesson on it now

Tamum good point

Okay, I did warn you, you would all hate for suggesting the police.

As for prove surely the swimming pool has CCTV, they are not going to want the bad press so they would almost certainly help you, they should as they allowed a group of this age to be unsupvised.

I have very good reasons for believing that the police should be involved, not least that a friends child was left brain damaged by a similiar event, the offender in that incident waited until the victim stopped struggling. It turned out afterwards that he had tried it several times before. If the first one had been reported then, well my friends son wouldn't be strapped in to a wheelchair, and would still be able to go out swimming with his mates.

But maybe I'm just over reacting who knows, who cares.

I remember being dunked (as we used to call it) at about the same age. I remember it being quite frightening (because if you're held under you do feel as if you are struggling), but it didn't put me off swimming and I don't remember worrying particularly about who did it to me (in fact I can't remember who it was I have a vague idea it was someone older than me though). I do remember I was splashing them before. It's not a police matter. It's boys needing to mature a bit.

I've seen kids go completely bonkers at pool parties - particularly boys. These parties seem to have nothing to do with 'swimming', and children often end up being very rough with each other. They just seem to go a bit wild in the water - my ds1 included. I have been quite shocked by them, and have sometimes asked ds1 to come out of the water and come and sit with me for a while to just "calm down" when he's getting too silly with all his friends. He's only 8 atm, but I certainly wouldn't consider leaving him at a pool party without close supervision.

He is a pretty good swimmer, and technically would be allowed in the pool without me for a 'leisure swim', and would be happy to swim lengths. But I would be worried that if a mate of his happened to be there as well, that they might start being silly together. He has got a lot of growing up to do before we reach that point.

Your poor DS, he sounds really traumatised by it understandably! I'm not sure that I would be happy with DS going to a pool party at age 10 although he's only 7 now so in 3 years time I may feel differently. It's just so dangerous isn't it? I think I would have to stay aswell.

I would NEVER haold a swimming party for children and then bugger off. My party, my responsibility. I agree the boy would have reacted spontaneously and wouldn't think of drowing your ds, but accidents happen. Tickling is also dangerous and upsetting in water IMO and the parents and/or the lifeguards should have been more vigilant. Scary.

I feel I should clear up the difference between dunking and whAt happened to DS

he showed us how drew held him

one hand over his mouth+chin and the other at the back of his head

So it was not really a quick dunk iyswim

We do feel so guilty about letting him go

BUT what could we have done??? Apart from saying he is not allowed to go -- which I wish we had done

We had already asked about helping drive them there

I know now that we cannot trust others to look after DS like we would have expected them too

AND DEFFO WE ARE GOING IF HE WANTS TO GO TO ANOTHER POOL PARTY AND WE WILL EXPLAIN WHY?

I have asked him if DREW has apologised and he said no he hadn't said anything

DS was doing exams yesterday so wasn't at school

Am going to contact the pool to complain

I will ask DH what he thinks is the best thing to do about DREW - his parents are sensible responsible people - but not really friends iyswim

I think the teacher will be in favour of talking to the class so drew will realise what could have happened

Like I said earlier he is the oldest boy in the class and very bright but does "flip" sometimes

DS certainly knows that tickling is wrong too I have to admit it didn't occur to me before he went to tell him not to tickle the other children although that was in the shallow end hence why DS could stand up but we have learnt our lesson there too.

I mean he now knows tickling is wrong in the water

I'd leave the apology- that seems a bit pointless- and go down the route of requesting a water safety lesson (which is entirely sensible especiallty as a teenage girl drowned today rescuing a dog).

It's not the tickling per se that's wrong, it's any sort of physical mucking about that can prove dangerous given the wrong circumstances. I wouldn't have thought to specifically warn a child not to tickle etc either. Swimming pools are damned dnagerous and unpredictable - imagine a simple large splash in someone's face resulting in them falling over, hitting their head and being unconscious underwater. The possibilities are, unfortunately, endless. I think the thing most children don't realise is that things that are fairly safe on dry land can be life threatening in water.

yes I agree that drew will not say sorry now if he hasn't already

and there is no point in forcing him to -- won't mean anything

RTKM you put your trust in the parents who were supposed to be supervising this party and they should be ashamed that they thought sitting in a cafe was good enough.

Would Drew have done that if the parents had been watching? Doubtful.

Remember all those public service adverts we used to get in the 70s? Maybe they were a good idea in teaching responsibility around things, was it Rolf Harris in the swimming pool one? Anyway, I digress as usual. Drew really needs to learn what could have happened, what his actions would lead to. I really don't thinking annoying tickling justifies that at all.

((KangaMummy)) how scary, and how upsetting. I can't add much to other posts (and no pool party experience as yet), but think your gameplan is spot on - just hope your DS's exams weren't too affected by his experience, and also hope the other adults involved (pool, school, parents) respond appropriately from now on.

I wasn't blaming your son RTK - he was just a kids at a party - I am really concerned about the inadequate supervision. Don't think there is anything you can do really apart from what you have done. Sorry.

'just a KID' I meant.

I would never ask other people's children to a pool party and then not supervise them even though lifeguards were present - and I agree with you ringing the dad, but don't think getting an apology now is such a big deal - the talk from the parents (Drew's) is what matters IMO. But i don't think the police would be at all interested even if you did ring them.

He knew when he was showing us what had happened that he shouldn't have tickled drew

cos we always say that if you are honest about something you have done and admit it

that is the right thing to do and so in our house honesty is the way we lead our lives iyswim

So he said "I admit that I shouldn't have tickled him"

I do feel upset at the parents {hosts of the party} -- but that could be my guilt as well

he feels that although he tickled him he doesn't feel that what drew did afterwards was justified

I think that our plan now is to

1. talk to the school and ask them to do a water safety talk

2. write to the pool to ask about cctv and tell them about what happened

3. accompany DS when he goes swimming

Do you think that is the right plan ????????

btw there was a time delay between the tickle and the head holding

RTKangaMummy, this happened to my ds when we were on holiday recently, at a resort swimming pool. The difference is that my ds is only 5 1/2 and the other boy who did it to him was exactly the same age. Ds made friends with this boy soon after we arrived and we were glad that he had someone to play with, but it became obvious very quickly that this child had virtually no discipline whatsoever. He shouted at his parents, refused to do what he was told, and threw wobblies in public just about everywhere. He was quite aggressive too.

Anyway one day dh and I were sitting at a table not far from the swimming pool having a drink, dh was chatting to this boy's mother and I was keeping a vigiliant eye on ds because he has grommets in his ears and had forgotten his earplugs, so I told him to ONLY go in the water if he kept his head above water and stayed in the shallow end. Ds was doing this when suddenly the other boy swam over and grabbed ds, pushed his head under water and held it down. I went ballistic - I rushed over shouting "NO! "NO!" to this other kid, but he didn't let go straight away. He was smiling and obviously thought it was some sort of game, but I grabbed ds out of the water and told the other boy off. DS was crying and a bit distraught by the whole thing, and would you believe the mother didn't even tell her son off. The only thing she made him do was come over and say 'sorry'. I still get furious at that boy's parents when I think of how they allowed him to get away with stuff like that. Needless to say, I watched ds like a hawk after that but this boy tried to do it TWICE more after the first incident. His parents were EVEN THERE and didn't do anything other than say (in a wimpy voice) "Don't do that". If that was my child I would've dragged him out of the pool and not let him back in and I was sure as hell make sure he knew how dangerous it is to hold someone's head under water.

Then a couple of months later my ds (thinking it must've been some sort of game) tried to do it to my 4 year-old niece in our swimming pool. He loves his cousins and would not do anything deliberate to hurt them but she was obviously upset and I went mad on ds for doing it. I explained how dangerous it is and that you can kill someone if you hold them under water. When I asked him why he did it and he said "Jack (the other boy) did that to me". He was copying the behaviour of this other kid. I was SO angry about the fact that not only did the other boy hold ds' head under water, he had also influenced him to do it to someone else. DS hasn't done it to anyone since, he knows how bad it is now and I think the fact that he's only 5 probably means he didn't quite understand it properly at the time. I was absolutely furious when it happened to ds and it's made me quite scared to leave him in the water when other kids are around. I will just have to make sure that dh or I are always around to watch him while he's still so young and hope that it never happens again.

Your poor DS LJsmum