I need hand-holding and advice. Apparently my 9 year old has serious behavioral difficulties.

[QuintessentialShadyHallows]

I am gutted. I had a long conversation with his teacher today. He has only been in this school since the beginning of term. However, the teacher has told me that the problems are so bad now they are involving the special needs coordinator and head. 3 sets of parents have come in to see the teacher and complain that they dont want their child anywhere near my son. He swears at them, calls them names, and is generally unpleasant. He is getting into fights and arguments, lies that other children have said stuff first, and fighting.

We did have some issues in Norway, and I hoped moving from the school and the bullies there would help him. We have had so many conversations about how he behaves, how his behaviour is making him look, how he is unlikely to make friends if he continues, the consequences, etc. Yet not a day goes by without problems, it seems.

Today he sat down to eat lunch on his own. As he was looking rather sad, a boy in the year below came to sit with him, and asked my son how he was doing. My son proceeded to get up from the chair, lift the boy, and throw him down on the floor. The boy was very upset and sad. The teacher was not happy to have to explain to the boys parents what had happened.

She said that she spent too much time trying to deal with my sons behavior, it is affecting the teaching.

What can we do? How are we going to get through to him?

Rewards are not working. Punishment and withdrawal of treats and privileges are not working. And clearly, explaining to him where he is going wrong and what he should do has NO effect at all.

We have been asked to support the school in sanctions they may impose on him. I dont feel I have any other option than to just let the school handle it as they see fit, because we have honestly tried for the last few years.

Funnily, at home he is a different person all together. Helpful, nice, kind, considerate, and shows great care for his brother. He is bright, works hard and enthusiastically with his homework, and helps in the house.

I just dont know what is going to happen next.

sounds good about asking for senco input .Seems like they are realising he has a problem and that its not just down to being labelled naughty

It has been such a horrible morning, which just confirms what an unsuitable parent I am making. I honestly am out of my depth here.

It is mufti day. Wear pink for breast cancer. So the morning started with my youngest kicking up a fuss that his jumper did not have the right proportion of white to the red (alternative to pink). Ds1 went down, made himself breakfast, and filled water bottles and made snack for him and his brother. He was really good. As always. He likes to be good, it is important to him, and the praise too. I was really pleased.

We had a talk with ds1 over breakfast about behaviour, how I understand he is struggling and we want to help. He should not feel worried about coming to me, as we wont punish him and be angry with him for what has happened in school, as the school has dealt with that already, but we would want to know what difficulties he has had, so we can talk through it. All was fine. I told him we love him very much and we want to help him so he can be happier. It was a good chat. He seemed to finally be taking on board how his behavior is affecting others, and that he must communicate and talk to the teachers and us about what is happening. All well and good.

I was going through ds2s homework with him, and it was 10 minutes before leaving. Ds1 started playing with a balloon, in the dining room where we were doing homework, and I told him to stop as it was too distracting. He says "oh". pauses and continues playing. I ask him again to stop.

He then asks for time on the computer. I say "no, we have to leave soon". He asks what he can do. I tell him to pack down his school things (I saw his pencil case on the dining table), brush his teeth and get ready. He goes up brushes his teeth, comes down, and asks to go on the computer. I say "no". He follows me into kitchen, where I am trying to find something for his brother, and asks for time on the computer. I say "No, not today". (I should add that we have had an ongoing discussion every day about not playing in the morning before school, if he has extra time, to sit down and read a novel which is part of his school work, as playing or computer work is too distracting, and it is difficult to tear them away from it). He sits down on the staircase and again asks if he can just go on Bitesize. I tell him some mornings it might be possible, but not today, as we are leaving in two minutes, and I need to get everything packed and get ready to go. He follows me again into the kitchen and asks if he can just go on the computer and finish what he was doing yesterday.

I just flipped. Turned into a loudly sobbing wreck. I was shouting about how "no" means "no", and does not mean he can ask again a minute later. That he is nagging and nagging and disturbing me so I cant concentrate on getting everything ready to go, how yesterday I forgot to pack his brothers PE kit because he was constantly asking to use the Ipad, and arguing with me to get Ipad time. That he is ruining my life with his constant pestering for computer time, and that I cant take any more. That he thinks he can just push and push and push until he gets his way, and nothing else matters. He should think about the effect this pushing has, and that he does not get what he want, instead he make people stressed and angry with him.

I said, no wonder his teacher has had enough if this is how he behaves and this is the effect he has on people.

Not my finest moment.

I was not in a fit state to take them to school. Dh had to go. I am not proud of myself.

Dh says I am a pushover. I am too easy on him and never pull him up for bad behaviour. That I am always making excuses for him. And now, at the age of 9 he has not learnt appropriate behaviour. I dont think this is right. I do tell him off, tell him if it is wrong, tell him how he should behave. I feel like I am a puppetmaster who has to constantly tell him what to do and how to behave.

Maybe that is the problem in school, he does not have me to look to? I dont know. I honestly dont know.

We did not have the same problems in Norway, similar to an extent, but not this. He wanted to move here. He was really happy for the first 3 weeks, until a girl called him ugly. It really upset him. He does not feel good about his looks. And then it all spiraled downwards.

I feel so crap. I am not handling this very well at all.

Far from the hug and snuggle cosy half term we should have, eh?

He does have you to look to, you are not a crap parent. If anything, much like many of us on here, you are overthinking parenthood. I used to being to being good at things. I expected to be an excellent mother. I would say I am in fact an adequate one most of the time, with occasional flashes of brilliance and also moments of utter utter rubbish.

You were right - he cannot chip on and on and on and on expecting that if he does he will get another answer. No does mean no and you were right to tell him. I don't think it was wrong for him to see you upset either. You are not a machine. You are a person too.

*I am used to being good at things

that should read. Clearly typing is not one of them.

im really sorry that your ds is going through this..it sounds like your lad is struggling socially..i would agree with the BESD thing.

it sounds too like he might have difficulties too with his levels of understanding..maybe not academically, but with regards to instructions etc..

try to be clear and concise with him....not "get into school, take your coat off and hang it on your peg, then go and tell your teacher that you're here" kind of thing, but concentrate on the main thing. when you get to the school gate tell him "go and tell your teacher you're in"..it avaids information overload and he may cope better with it. kind of "chunk" information, and ask his teachers to do so as well...it may help him to feel more in control and less opportunity for him to get into trouble for not knowing what he is doing.

role play with him at home...different scenarios...things that he struggles with. discuss one issue at a time, and show him ways of coping eg.. "do you want to play football?" go through ways that he might reply and then see what might happen...help him to decide on a way of dealing with situations so he might be able to help himself.

im not sure how old he is (might well have missed it!)but obviously, these coping strategies need to be age appropriate.

i think you need to speak with the school, and in this situation, i would think that the senco should be able to help your ds loads...

its bloody awful when your child is unhappy, i know. big hugs for you x

Oh Quint. Honestly my 9yo DS is exactly the same in the mornings. The no of times I have snapped and said 'no more TV in the mornings as it stops you leaving the house on time' and i have never followed through. You are stressed and worried and of course you snapped. That is totally normal behaviour and we all do it....

Oh pore pore you.

We've all done it. I screeched like a banshee the other evening, stormed out of the house and wandered the street in tears. Next morning I said sorry and we had a nice chat about how we might all do things differently (until the next time).

With some children it is vital to have clear and immutable rules because they will go on and on. Dd is like this, one of her teacher's called her a Jack Russell! So with her we have absolutes, eg, bed at 9.30, (agreed with her in advance) so there is no scope for argument.

It sounds like you need to do that with ds1. If he is sometimes allowed on the puter in the morning, of course it's worth him keep trying because he doesn't know what makes the difference between a yes morning and a no. How about a list of rules on the fridge? eg No computer/tv/etc in the morning, then when he goes on, just clamly refer him to the fridge. Get him to sit down with you and draw up the rules together, with the idea that these are rules to make life more pleasant for all.

Remember you lost it because you are so stressed and worried about him. Let yourself off, and have another good talk later. You are going to have to have a lot of them...

In our house, btw, there is absolutely no screen of any kind allowed in th emorniong no matter what. They don't even ask.

I dont think he does not understand commands and what we are telling him. I think he just does not really care unless they fall in line with what he wants to do.

I think he was following me around to show me he had done everything, and really wanted to use the computer. He was doing something last night, that he was not allowed to complete because it was bedtime. I think he wanted to continue. And this was quite possibly his motivation for getting up and eating breakfast, and then make snack and water bottles so I should not have to. He genuinely tried to make my morning easier, in the hope it would get him computer time. Only, he did not tell me that, and we had not agreed to that.

I think clear rules must be enforced. You are right. We had clear rules in Norway, but now we dont. Because the need for me to do homework with ds2, there is time that ds1 could use as he is just waiting around.

It would work well for me to allow him bitesize on the computer in the living room while I am doing homework with ds2 in the dining room. I have to do 15 minutes homework with him every morning, to reach his target of reading before Christmas! He is doing very well so far.

This thread is really helpful, it allows me to work out problem spots, with your input. Things I would not otherwise have thought about.

ds1 Morning rule:
Eat Breakfast
Carry dishes to kitchen
Pack school bag
Brush teeth and get school jumper
If no homework to complete, 15 minutes on Bitesize is allowed.

ds2 morning rule
Eat Breakfast
Carry dishes to kitchen
Brush teeth
15 minute homework
Pack school bag

Then get dressed and leave. Could be workable?

That sounds good, as long as you are sure that the "if" won't cause arguments. Personally I'd say no screen or definitely screen to avoid argument potential, at least until everything has settled down and become more manageable. You want to reduce argument and stress potential as much as poss.

I'd also tell him what you've just written too, about realising that he had been trying to make your life easier and get computer time, it is going to be v important to him to both be understodd, and to feel understood!

Or Mary's idea.

Quint, there are so many issues going on all at once, it's going to take a superhuman effort to cleave them apart and focus on each one at a time... but do it you must, otherwise you will collapse under a sea of misplaced guilt.

Moving to London has not caused your son's behavioural difficulties. I know that you know this, but you really need to tell yourself this over and over again. In fact, it sounds as if his problems have been going on for a while, and that the school taking action is a very positive thing indeed; it should get him support and help with his social and behavioural difficulties, which is very much A Good Thing.

All your son has learned this morning is that his mother is human. He can deal with this, don't worry- he knows you. I think Hully's fridge rules idea is a good one. FWIW, I am a teacher who works almost exclusively with children with BESD; I have patience and strategies and expertise. Then I come home to my nemesis 3yo DD and it all goes out of the window. I shout and cry. It's ridiculous. But, we all do it.

What is BESD please?

Quint, I am just a parent like you so I am not saying it sounds like BESD or anything else as I am not qualified to do so. Do have a look at the national autistic website criteria for aspergers though just to rule it out if anything. Hopefully the school will help your son whatever the problem is. or is found to be.

Bit slow posting there...

I think Mary's idea is very good, but I would not make computer time contingent on him having no homework- this is likely to make him rush his homework and see it as (more of) a chore; which will impact negatively on his school experience, which he could well do without at the moment. I would make homework time separate.

Behavioural, Emotional and Social Difficulties.

It is an umbrella term to describe a range of difficulties- so a child with a statement for BESD may not have social difficulties, but have emotional or behavioural difficulties, or both IYSWIM. Or they may have difficulties in all three areas.

We have all had days mornings like you have described. Do not feel bad.

There are lots of good suggestions on here. I agree that the school becoming involved is a good thing. Does his teacher know that they have very different expectations for play etc in Norway?

The other thing I would ask is do your DSs have to do their homework in the morning? Would it be possible to do their 15 mins in the evening, meaning you all have less to do in the mornings?

Do not feel bad. Showing you are human is a good thing.
Tell DH his comments were unhelpful. If he wants to discuss your parenting can you arrange a time when you have time and space, or even have a family meeting with the children.
Talk to the school.
Your DS will probably have forgotten what you said when he gets home (mine always seem to when something has been eating me all day).

I wonder if your DS has more issues, so you really do need to talk to the SENCo and start getting things going.

I explode like that at nagging too .
He sounds so on edge, Quint, something else is at the root of this.

I am very sorry you are going through this, DS had behavioural difficulties from a similar age and it's so stressful dealing with school and not getting any answers.

I would be asking if there is a behaviour support team who can come in from the LA. We had a behaviour support worker come in and observe DS, he was able to identify trigger points and develop a positive reward-based system for his behaviour.

Punishment didn't work very well with him at all - he was diagnosed with Aspergers at age 10 so I agree with wasuup that it's worth looking at that, given the social difficulties you've mentioned.

I would also go to your GP and ask for a referral to CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health services) - they can investigate possible underlying issues, offer counselling or other psychological support.

Mornings are still difficult for DS and I wonder if it would be easier for you to move some of those tasks to the night before, to reduce demands on time in the morning? Packing bags, getting school jumper out and homework can be done ahead of time. If you are enforcing a new set of rules/routine, it might be helpful to put them on display so everyone is clear about them.

Thank you lovely people! I did not get to post again, because I sat down to write a long email to school, bringing up a few things said on this thread, highlighting my thoughts about his behavior, his past experience in Norway, and how he is at home compared to how he behaves at school .Thinking about all that I wrote, and all that you wrote, it seems a little like he expects children to be nasty to him, and he becomes defensive and unfriendly, bite back, etc, in advance, to sort of protect himself and prevent further hurt. It is like a self fulfilling prophecy. I also think there is a great deal if misinterpretations and miscommunications. He dont always explain himself very well, and dont tell us what he is thinking, instead he bites back and becomes frustrated.

I got an email back from the head, which was very reassuring. I spoke with his teacher at length at pick up, and she was very sympathetic to what I had written. I am to call after half term to make arrangements to meet.

My son seems relieved that he will now get help to tackle his issues and frustrations, rather than a lot of punishment. He was pleased that he had a good day, and managed to stay on the "right track" behavior wise. He also got a price for having done excellent homework this term, and was really chuffed. He has also got two mentions in the school newsletter this term, one as "star pupil" and one for hard work and good progress.

He does seem moody and sarcastic sometimes, and now, rather than scolding him, we stop and ask what is the matter, so he can think about his own attitudes and responses, and make him aware of how he comes across. It has been a good day.

So glad you are feeling more supported and the school is being so helpful. Hold them to it.