Are these signs of asd? Or just normal toddler behaviour?

[Moulesfrites]

My friend is worried about her 16 mo ds as he shows quite obsessive behaviour and she isnt sure if it could be a sign that he is on the spectrum. I don't know about these this and my ds is only 7mo so not sure what is normal for a toddler, but I said I would ask on here...

He gets obsessed about odd little things eg he loves playing with door handles and gets upset if he can't get to them.

She has bought him 4 identical comfort toys as she knows how upset he would be to lose one.

He is funny about grass - doesn't like sitting on it, touching it etc, which she thinks could be a sensory thing?

As I said, I have no idea what this means, but thought there would be someone on here who does!

My ds1 still hates sand, always has, hes now 6.
I still sleep with my comforter am 36. I would probably save it first in a house fire ha ha (onky joking, dcs first, but dh would be third)

Sounds normal to me, but i know its worrying, my ds2 at 21 months doesnt say a word, just makes crow noises, like hes been raised by a family of crows and not humans

right, deep breath from me...

DD has always hated noise, she would cry at certain sounds as a baby, before she was old enough to understand where it was coming from IYSWIM.
Deep bass sounds still reduce her to tears in a nano-second. But she can have certain pieces of music/songs/sounds on repeat on CD player/dvd without noticing.

She seems to have a very heightened sense of taste, much prefers 'bland' food. And will not eat fridge cold food and prefers hot food at room temp.

She sniffs fabric, has comforters and licks metal things (shopping trolleys are her favourite).

If we're in a crowd or she's at a park with other DCs she physically cowers if someone runs towards her, but is not shy, she is very sociable (too friendly at times, she's an 'in your face' child )

She calls out odd words at odd times - i can ask her what she wants for dinner and she'll shout 'boo-boos' (i have no idea what boo-boos are)

She has a 'concentrating' face, and often can zone out and if she's startled out of it will cry out

I'm not looking for problems, I know lots of these are very common, but these things have all been mentioned at various health checks etc and i was told she'd probably grow out of them, but it doesn't stop me wondering if there is more to it. It's helpful for these kind of thread to get some perspecitve, not a diagnosis.

How old is your dd, auntymonica?

she's 4yrs old now

I posted a thread on this section nearly 3 years ago when ds was about this age. My concerns were some 'odd' behaviours (spinning things, rather obsessive about traffic lights, and couple of other oddities). I was told pretty much overwhelmingly that it was 'normal' - got the "oh yes my ds did that, is fine now, ha ha" type responses.

I posted the same thread on the SN board - got 99% responses of "oh yes my ds was a bit like that. He was diagnosed with ASD when he was 3yo"

I chose to listen to the people who gave me the reassurance I was looking for - ie the ones who said it was normal. I told myself that as other children did what mine did (though not to the same extent) that he was fine. I did nothing for another 18 months in fear of what (I knew) would happen.

Guess what! Ds was diagnosed with ASD when he was 3yo!

I'm not saying your friend's ds has ASD. None of us here should/could say that.

But the thing about the early signs is that they are often really, really subtle at this age. Hindsight is a great luxury. Yes lots of toddlers like spinning things. But they do other things as well. And not all toddlers like spinning thigns to the extent that they point out ceiling fans at the age of 18 months.

IMVHO the things to look at aren't necessarily the activities (lots of dc interested in shutting doors) he chooses. As pp have said, it's the quality of the play, how repetitive it is, how functionless it is (ie does he seem to understand the purpose of toys). What's his interaction like? Does he bring things to show people? Does he seem to want others to share in his world? Does he play with anythign else other than shutting doors?

Agree that she should post on SN board.

And the firstsigns.org site is brilliant - it was this among other things that made me finally get my head out of the sand and see the situation clearly.

How old auntiemonica? And how does she let you know what she wants?

The videos I linked to above have examples of typical and ASD early speech development so you can compare.

she can hold a very adult conversation - her memory recall amazes me!

As alwasy Pag talks perfect sense.

I knew from DS2 being very small that there was something not quite "right" with him. Took me 18onths before anyone would listen to me, an he ws dxed with autism aged 2 1/2 yrs old. DS2 had an obsession with doors and light switches, so can totally relate to the door handle thing.

Early intervention is key, and your friend should trust her instinct.

If the behaviours were going with delayed speech development I would have said check it out antiem but hard to say really as her communication doesn't sound (from what you've said here) delayed (which if course is the heart of asd however it presents).

She does sound (whether other issues or not) that she might have some sensory sensitivities. The out of sych child is a good book, or anything really by Stanley Greenspan (I like the challenging child which is aimed at parenting NT kids but really goes into sensory issues and how they can affect behaviour).

I would certainly advise your friend to write a list, and speak to her HV. I had a few concerns with dd2 and took her to see HV, where she sat playing with the cars in the garage, just pushing them up and down for about 25 mins! She also stood there hand flapping, and wouldnt look at HV. She referred us and dd2 was given working dx at 2 years 9 months, and full dx at 3 years. The early intervention has helped no end.
I started keeping a daily diary when she was about 2.6months and i read it earlier and am shocked by how bad she was :(
SIgns of ASD arent always clear but any concerns a mum have is worth looking at.
HTH

Communication delays/disorders at the core of ASD (one of triad of impairments), yes. But having no speech delay doesn't preclude ASD. Ds's speech not delayed - but his social communication is impaired. Eg topics of conversation, ability to hold two-way conversations, repetition etc.

But auntmonica this doesn't sound like it applies to your dd imo.

Speech delay is not at the heart of ASD. Isn't it true that in many children diagnosed with HFA/Aspergers have typical speech development? My DC does have speech delay, no doubt about it but no one seems concerned about addressing this and providing therapy. Instead I get the SALT seemingly obsessed with whether she always runs round in circles. Answer? No. She made the error of doing it once for a few minutes during a routine assessment and that, along with her speech delay has raised "concerns."

AuntieMonica

I think the things you describe here do sound like things worthy of note. They might not mean much individually but when you add them all together it seems to outline a picture of sensory issues. It may be something it maybe nothing but to me it would be something to be aware of and to monitor.

Arrogant cat, you are right many children with AS do have 'typical' speech, however, their use od language and their understanding of the soial use of language and the reciprocal nature of this sort of interaction is not typical

Pagwatch and Jimjams as always talk sense on these threads. It is probably nothing but could equally be something. The door handle things does set off alarm bells but it really would depend on the intensity of the obsession.

Communication difficulties are far more important as indicators than speech tbh. How is his non-verbal communication? Does he point? Does he bring things to her to show? Does he see things, point, look at her for her reaction in a joint attention way? Does he copy? All these things will give a clearer picture but not a diagnosis.

If she googles the Mchat she should get a copy of the screening tool that HV should be using. Those things should be in place by 18mths. But again, this is a screening test and just flags up children who may be at risk and in need of further investigation.

Oh and the grass thing could be a sensory issue. But even if it is, that does not necessarily mean ASD as a child can have sensory issues without being autistic.

I didn't speech delay was at the heart of ASD - I said: "but hard to say really as her communication doesn't sound (from what you've said here) delayed (which if course is the heart of asd however it presents)." This was why I asked earlier about how wants were indicated - if the reply had been dragging across a room I would have been concerned.

I thought we were talking about a young child and in a young child a speech delay in combination with the other behaviours would have indicated the need for an urgent referral. (I actually thought boo boos was her only word on initial reading).

Of course you can still have ASD without speech delay, but you can also have sensory issues without ASD. It's as always a combination of things and the broader context. Speech delay alone not necessarily a problem, speech delay plus sensory issues- perhaps more of a worry. It also depends what the child is doing with the behaviours. NT DS2 used to love lining up cars (tick) - but he was actually making big long imaginary trains out of them (untick).

I tend to think any concern by a parent should be investigated, especially if after a watch and wait it's still there. I also think that lots of kids have sensory issues and can benefit from an understanding of those whether or not they go with something diagnosable.

didn't say - grr wish we could edit.

I seem to have said a lot of the same as carpetlover

FWIW the biggest indicator for us was lack of pointing and ds1's inability to follow a point. This should have been huge red flags - but for some reason the professionals dismissed them because he was 'too affectionate' to be autistic and 'too smiley' and 'too friendly'. It delayed dx by about a year and he's actually severely autistic (and still affectionate, smiley and friendly! :) )

I think the OP has run away ......

saintly not necessarily! DS1 had very advanced speech as a toddler/small child. It was always more like talking to an adult than a child. He is, however, autistic.

Ah, x-posts. I understand better now.

I know very little about this subject, so I would not argue with Pag as I think she speaks with sense, and from experience, but I will just add that I believe the negative reaction to the feel of grass is quite a common one in NT babies and toddlers.

sorry, have not run away!!

This thread is so interesting and helpful. Thank you.

I will definitely tell my friend to have a look at the SN boards - she is not a mnetter but I keep telling her she should be.

The other thing, which complicates matters slightly, is that her ds is being raised bilingual also - so she has been told that his language will be delayed anyway because of this - I suppose I should tell her to look on the bilingual boards too!

yes get her on there moulesfrites. people there are very sensitive and will respond to the nuances of what she says. Communication problems are hard enough to describe directly, let alone through a friend!

addressbook, it's a pity you had that negative experience. That's unusual on this forum if it's any consolation.