Early riser 11 month old - tips please

[Krainy]

My 11 mo son goes to bed at 7 and wakes at 5.50. I would love to get more sleep in the morning, any ideas?

He has 30 minute nap 9.15 - 9.45 ( I wake him) and then a lunchtime nap usually 1 - 2 ( he wakes himself). However he does have an older sister so this varies to fit in with school run etc when it is not holidays.

Do you think he needs a later bed time? He has a blacked out room and eats for England in the day. We recently went on holiday to Wales and he slept really well but I cannot work out why, as our home is just as quiet. Thank you for any advice.

[ledkr]

Even tho i am going away i have been tired and emotional today,does anyone find they are quite irrational cos so tired,ive been feeling really down and planning my divorce for no reason.
Last night she went down at 9 and it made no difference,poor baby is so tired in the day too and keeps needing sleeps.Ive had 5 and ive never experienced anything like it before,if the others woke early they had a feed and went back down.
I am planning to do the outdoor light thing every night and do every other morning with dh so at least we are getting some sleep.
shark why do you think you are failing,i dont feel that i just think we struck it unlucky and got early risers.In fact we are far from failing as we are having such early starts and still standing.

[MissHonkover]

ledkr, that's good to hear that you're in this boat with your fifth child (not that it's good, but I'm sure you know what I mean!). DD is our first, and I keep thinking we could do something differently, but I'm really not sure what.

Yep, lots of bickering in this house too, shark.

[SharkSkinThing]

ledkr - you poor thing, I understand, I so do, and it's such a frustrating position to be in. Never underestimate the debilitating nature of chronic sleep deprivation (and broken sleep is enormously soul destroying). I am always snapping at DP and lashing out for the fact that nothing seems to work.

I am irrational all of the time, feel like I am going round and round in circles, never finding an answer, just wishing every night when I go to bed (in about 10 minutes) that tomorrow he will sleep longer. That's why I feel like I'm failing. That I can't fix it!

I feel so frustrated, I wake up at 4am and my heart sinks and the thought of yet another 17 hour day ahead of me, and I feel terrible, because I've got to go back to work in 6 weeks and it's ruining my time with DS.

MissHonkover - will the bickering ever stop?! I bloody hope so. I tell you, no more kids for us!

[ledkr]

www.sleepytot.com/sleepytot_community/articles/five_ways_to_stop_your_baby_waking_early.phtml
This is the link to the evening daylight exposure,it works for me and many others,i just havent got around to doing it the last 2 nights.
Try it and report back.
None of my others woke this early and if they did it was for a feed not for the day.

[MissHonkover]

Thanks for the link. I'm confused about the circadian rhythm thing, surely depending on the time of year it could be dark from 5pm til 7am?

I'm despairing really, the article suggests a variation of CC but DD wouldn't go back to sleep if we left her, her tension levels would increase and she'd just get more het up.

I wish we knew when she'd grow out of it, I'm sure we all feel like that. shark, how many kids do you have?

[SharkSkinThing]

And again at 4.30am.

Am close to having some sort of break down. Nasty little row with DP this morning - he sympathizes, but doesn't fully understand, I don't think, how long it makes your day. Thinks I should just be happy that we have a healthy little boy.

Yes, knowing when they will grow out of it would be a huge help!

We just have one boy. And I am not having any more.

Miss - we don't CC either. DS would just go through the roof...

And it's raining, again, so can't even get out for a decent walk..xx

[SharkSkinThing]

Sorry everyone, just very low today. I hate Mondays as there are no groups on here and I feel like I'm clock watching and desperately trying to find something for us to do.

I also feel like his naps are sliding - he's having one now (of course he is, he was up at 4.30am!), and I don't know if I should be limiting it, or trying to keep him awake...gah....all will pass, I'm sure...xx

[MissHonkover]

Hang in there Shark, it has to get better at some point. I find the accumulated tiredness and broken sleep really hard. I've always loved sleep and anything less than 9 unbroken hours a night isn't enough. I also find, even if I go to bed early, that the 5am wake ups really get me down.

Is there anything else going on Shark, you don't have PND?

In terms of the bickering, me and DP hit crisis point a few months ago, and had a big talk about the way we spoke to each other. We still sometimes snap at each other out of tiredness, but things have really improved. Would it help to have a talk with your DP?

Is DS a nightmare if he doesn't sleep? My mum thought I was over-obsessing about DD's naps and sleep until she saw the missed nap carnage first hand. I recognise that desperation in your post!

Yep, the day is LOOOOOONNNNNGGGG isn't it? When I was at home FT I used to go for at least one walk a day, often out for a couple of hours, it was the only way I could entertain her without having to entertain her, IYSWIM. Could you even potter round an indoor shopping centre?

I'm now back at work and DD is at CM, and that has helped me a lot. Can you afford maybe a day a week of a CM?

Sorry for the long post, you're not alone, keep going.

[SharkSkinThing]

Thanks, MissHonk - feel so selfish moaning on a thread where others have similar low energy levels.

I don't think it's PND - it is, like you, I think, accumulated sleep deprivation (16 months, now, including the last bits of pg), plus a horrendous unexpected difficult birth and no time to recover. Breastfeeding, no family nearby to help (and DP's nearish family never offering), and just the general shock of the whole thing. DS also didn't do long naps at all until about a month ago (20 mins generally, or he'd nap whilst I was out and couldn't get home in time to rest), so just as I though we were finally out of the tunnel, along comes along another train!

I agree about the 5am feeling hard, even with enough sleep. We do get out and walk and do lots and lots of things, but I just feel like I am always out of synch with other Mums - no one has this issue. Well asides from on here!

I'm glad that being at the CM and work has helped - I'm going back myself in 6 weeks, so perhaps a few days with the CM will help me re-focus my perspective.

DP and I will be ok - he's such a great Dad, he's very easy going and doesn't really see what the issue is. He doesn't really seem to appreciate that a routine of sorts is needed (it was me who had to firmly insist on a bedtime routine at 10 weeks and to stop the night-feeding at 9 months, as well as reminding him when we visit his family that we can't be driving 2 hours home at 6pm...) - we'll get there...I hope...

My turn to apologise for the long post, especially when there are others who have such bigger issues to deal with. My blip will pass soon, I am sure, as I hope everyone else s will! xx

[Krainy]

Shark, I just wanted to say how much the early mornings affect everything in your life. I have now had a week of proper sleep having started the "time in the garden after tea" session this time last week, and when I took DS swimming this week I remembered how bad I felt last Monday. And yes, lots of bickering too, but since I have been sleeping the world is much easier. Do you think it is worth speaking to yr health visitor, obv depends on if you have a nice team there or not, but it is great just to talk it all out and the ones in my town will come out to you if you are having big sleep problems.

[MissHonkover]

Well, there's been an unexpected turn of events here. Contrary to the guidance not to do CC in the mornings that I've read, we gave it a try, due to DD waking at 4 yesterday morning. DP went in and lay her back down, she screamed furiously for about 45 seconds and then stopped and went back to sleep. She then woke at 5 and 6.15, but with no crying, just grumbling. At 6.30 we got up with her.
This morning she started chatting happily in her cot at 5, fell back to sleep on her own, did the same at 6, and then 7.15. We got up with her at 7.30. Bloody amazing. We did the outside time thing yesterday, but I think for us the CC [if you can even call it that, 45 seconds of yelling] had the biggest effect, as she still woke early, but she wasn't crying and resettled.

We'll see what tomorrow morning brings, obviously one day doesn't make a pattern.

It reminds me of when she was about 6.5 months, and had gone through a v brief period of needing to be rocked to sleep. We had continued doing it, but it had stopped working, she was getting really annoyed and wriggling, rather than being comforted by the rocking. We tried CC with total dread, as we were really against it, but she never cried longer than about 4 mins, and only did that twice. She was also crying angrily, rather than sadly, IYSWIM. Anyway, that totally did the trick and she went back to self-settling fine.

Sorry about the long CC ramble, my point is that both at 6.5 months and now, neither she nor us were happy with what was happening with her sleep. She was much happier yesterday and today after longer sleep, and the result was the same at 6.5 months. I think DD sometimes gets into a habit that isn't helping her, and CC can press the reset button, IYSWIM.

We'll see. Of course I could well be posting here tomorrow about a 4am waking.

[Krainy]

OOh that is great news, good luck tonight. Did you do outside time again tonight?
I didnt manage to do our outside time yesterday as DD was unwell and DS woke at 5.50 this morning, so we have been out tonight, fingers crossed it works again.

[MissHonkover]

No time for outside time tonight I'm afraid, so perhaps that will reveal something. I so so hope things might be set to improve, I've had a sense of dread at bedtime for nearly a year now.

Good luck yourself.

[marl]

It's been such a relief to find this threat. DS3 waking at 5am for the last month and it's really killing me as well my relationship with DP as I'm feeling just nuts, can't be nice, and any thoughts of a sex life are lost forever I fear! As Shark said, it's added on to the last year of new baby plus insomnia in pregnancy that started at about 4 months in. I was a 9 hours a night person before this, so it's starting to make me ill - have now lost my voice this week! I will try the outside in the garden thing before bed. Can't see how we can do controlled crying at that time in the morning as it will wake DS2 who will be tricky to get back to bed at that time, though if undisturbed he will go till half 6. I'm hearing the messages about day time sleep which has also become chaotic as a result of the early waking. He was doing 9-9.45am and then a longer lunchtime sleep from 12.30 - 1.45ish. Now I have no idea what is going on! Do any of you know what 'the experts' say a 13 month should have in terms of sleep during the day?

[marl]

Ah just found the link in 'five ways to stop' to how much sleep he should have. Thanks ledkr.

[MissHonkover]

Hello marl. The No Cry Nap Solution says 1-2 naps per day totalling 2-3 hours, plus 11.5 to 12 hours of bedtime sleep. The aim in any 24 hours is about 13.5 to 14 hours.

[SharkSkinThing]

Hi everyone - how is everyone getting on today? A better night, I hope? MissHonkover, are you making progress? Krainy, that's great advice, thank you. I was never this pessimistic before! I'll give my HV a call today.

Hello Marl - how is your throat today?

If it's any consolation, DS, 10.5 months, has never had the recommended amount, always slightly under. He's having 9.5 hours at night, and 2 - 2.5 in the day. Tops he'll have 12, 1.5 under what they say! But what can you do??? He's alert, bright, happy, eats well. Must just be what he needs, and I just hold on the fact that (a) he has a big unbroken chunk at night now after mooooooonths of not, AND has a decent afternoon sleep.

What happens if they don't get this, I wonder??? Do they explode?

I think all we can do (can you tell I'm at the point of giving up?), is ensure that we are doing all of the right things (black out blinds, full tummies, etc etc etc) and hope it passes.

I think our issue is that DS has a big poo at this time, and he's just more aware of it 'brewing' as it were! And of course, I have to change him, can't expect him to go back to sleep with that in his nappy. So this morning I stuffed him full of fruit in the hope that perhaps I can re-programme his bum!

They don't cover this is the ante-natal classes, do they? xx

[SharkSkinThing]

Ok - I'm feeling positive - 2 big poos in the daytime today and lots of crawling (he's only just started), plus enough food to sink a battleship.

Fingers crossed for everyone else! Will no doubt be on here tomorrow eating my words/planning my own funeral...xx

[MissHonkover]

Well, I'm afraid last night wasn't as good for us. Awake at 5, although she did go back to sleep til about 6. She was then so grumpy that DP took her out in the pram, when she promptly fell asleep. Last night we didn't do outside time, so perhaps that would have helped.

So, she's just gone into bed, having had a constitutional round the block.

The great day of the 7.30 waking produced just one daytime nap, of 1.5 hours, so who knows, maybe she's moving towards that.

Good stuff shark on the pooing and crawling.

Good luck brave soldiers! See you tomorrow.

[SharkSkinThing]

Aw, MissHonkover, open the wine, watch some trash (or disappear to bed with a book and the biscuit tin) - and write today off.

It's a bloody enigma, it really is. Lost in a foreign land with no map, no lingo, no sleep, no clue. If it weren't for my nasty little coffee habit, I'd be screaming into a pillow every day. As it is, it's only every OTHER day.

Might be that your DD is in the transition from 2 to 1 naps, has crossed my mind with DS, too.

Onwards, as you say, onwards...

[Krainy]

6.10am this morning, not too bad at all, it is a bit tricky to get out in the evening at the mo with DD under the weather, so we just did 15 mins in the garden again tonight, not sure that is enough.
How did the call to the HV go, Shark?

[marl]

Hi all. Wine is open and feeling a bit more positive today - reaching the end of your tether and then having some practical actions to try to deal with it can feel like a positive turning point! Thanks also to the person that reminded me that there is a small positive to getting up early - ie getting organised. 6.10 today which was better after putting him back to sleep after 5. DS2 awake far too early as a result but I can deal with that in the short term. So feeling like we are on the right road with DS3 and happy to take the risk of chaos with DS2 while we sort him. Controlled crying for daytime sleeps today which worked as only the little one at home - so probably just over two hours sleep total at the times I decided rather than when he dropped. Interesting going out in the garden at 6.15am according to the advice, to get 'daylight' and deal with DS3's eating of mud (previously manure) in the raised beds so early in the morning. Have done the going outside in the evening tonight so fingers crossed. Wishing you all a long sleep!

[marl]

Thanks Shark. The voice is now half back - enough for me to holler at DS1 today but not enough to stop DS2 continuing to see the possibility of domestic revolution. Have bought some iron to fortify myself!

[OnlyMe1971]

DS is 17 months and until a month, NEVER slept past 6am. usually it was 5:30. We were buggered tired. I saw a documentary about baby's sleep on TV and a sleep consultant said that studies showed that if you let your little one sleep before 11am, they will use that as a continuation of their nighttime sleep.

So I cut DS morning nap even though he was literally falling around the place with tiredness. I stuck with it for 10 days. For the first few days, no difference, but on the 3rd morning he woke at 6, then 7!!! We could not believe it. Since then, he has been waking most mornings at 6:30. We had 3 early mornings but he has been sick so hoping that was the reason for that.

If you do decide to cut out morning naps, be prepared for crankiness and tiredness and feeling like a real meanie for the first few days, but that does get much better.

Today he slept for 2.5 hours and went down at 7:30 this evening knackered. Hopefully he will sleep a bit later tomorrow now. Fingers crossed!

[MissHonkover]

Morning all. Welcome OnlyMe!

Well, last night did our half hour out in the pushchair after tea but before bath. This morning she woke again at 5, but went back to sleep by herself til 6.30. Will give it another go tonight.

Hopefully as she did so well this morning we can push her on without a morning sleep as OnlyMe suggests. The last time she did that we got a better night. Feeling better.