Am I worrying unnecessarily? Please help - sorry it's a bit long

[earthtomummy]

DS is 4.5. He has two sisters, 2.5 and 8mos. He didn't really talk until he was 2.5ish and properly communicate and interact until he was 3 and really when he started pre-school. I posted something y'day in the SN section about school's concerns about his fine motor skills. He's cross-dominant and hasn't chosen which hand to use yet. He can't hold a pencil or write at all. He also struggles sometimes with sequences of nos. and sees 9 as 6. But something that concerns me more is how he plays with other children. I basically DREAD play sessions. From experience I try to not build them up or make them a big deal beforehand. But apart from 2 friends, he is quite hostile - at times - v. hostile to friends who come to play. He'll either go off alone or be over the top silly, rude (poopoohead) and sabotage the other child's play. Frankly at times DS mayas well not be here during play sessions because he doesn't interact at all - or if he does it's negative. He's always been socially awkward - groups, birthday parties etc were a nightmare. But he always says he wants friends to come round and gets upset if they don't. He's a sweet boy but I can't help wondering what other mums must think. Also I find it hard to involve him in activities with me like lego, cooking etc. I can't help but notice that when I look after his best friend every wk, he is so easy to interact with. I mean, y'day's play session was with a 4yo we live opposite and who he walks to school with most days and sees at pre-school most days. But he was still hostile. Only with 2 of his friends can I relax but if all 3 get together he gets excluded quickly. I feel so upset. Something doesn't feel quite right. And somehow I feel really guilty that it's my fault. Sorry to go on.

Yes, Kittypickles did make me feel better to0! I don't know if it's better or worse whether DH works sort of in this field or not. The ed.psych for DS school is in DH's team. The IEP for DS had stuff about his fine motor skills in, but also talked about how self-absorbed he is and unaware of anyone/thing around him and also how he narrates his play whilst not seeking responses or reactions from the people around him. I've been watching him play this week and that's true and I suppose I haven't really noticed before. But I'm sure that with one o two friends he does. Although my good friend commented last wk (when I asked for thoughts on DS) on how he did tend to play alongside her DS (and that's his best friend), as opposed to with him. I wonder if that's a trait of dyspraxia? I don't know if school think there's more to it? Y'day teacher said, 'oh, it'll prob. be fine in a couple of terms'. But I think she was just being kind. We've been looking at Steiner schools this wk. Q. interesting approach.

I have been following this thread with interest...

I have been concerned that daughter was a bit dyspraxic as her fine motor skills, organisation skills, and general listening skills were behind. She was refered, and had an asesment,where they said that there was a great discrepency between her fine motor skill and her manual dexterity. Anyway the OT thought (off the record.. she can't diagnose) that daughter had dyspraxic tendencies and S.I.D
The EP (who was called in because daughter wanted to kill herself) said daughter had aspergers tednencies (off the record as she can't diagnose)
We're still waiting for a proper diagnosis

I think what I'm trying to say is that there is a great overlap off all these conditions... I think it was on here that I read that these conditions are like the Olympic flag with the rings all overlapping, like the symptons...

Some of the things the EP said did have us thinking, and I do feel myself scrutinising everything daughter does at the moment!

I strongly feel that mothers know best and you should feel proud for supporting him...

Quite a few children with dyspraxia also have Aspergers and many of hte features of dyspraxia are Aspergers-like (social immaturity, tendancy to go on and on about favourite subject etc).
It DOESN'T mean they won't have wonderful and happy lives though.
I think you know your son better than a teacher, and it can be a relief in a way to stop pretending that everything is 'normal' and Ok while feeling sick with worry inside.
You son sounds lovely and he will still be lovely if he has dyspraxia, Aspergers, or some other kind of difficulty. And he has loving parents who are ready, equipped and determined to support him, which is fantastic.

I was really down when the EP said that daughter (in her opinion) had aspergers tendencies... but you know it doesn't change a thing.... she's still the same kid.. it just helps us realise why she does things... and you know... I wouldn't change her for the world.

rummum - spot on. However that doesn't stop the short term "grieving" process for the child you thought you had.

yes... I've been through that and I feel now I am getting my head round the aspergers tendencies bit...
Before we saw the EP my worst fears were that they couldn't do anything in school to help Daughter.. My husband was very matter of fact and said 'thats that then' when we came out of the appointment... I was upset and said it was terrible.. he said no.. you said it would be terrible if they couldn't do anything to help her... and he's right.. at least now she will get the support she needs...

sorry to hijack your thread by the way...

Thanks rummum and everyone else. Yes, a diagnosis might help me get through the constant repetitive questions - currently about why Kaa in the Jungle Book hypnotises Mowgli! See there's a theme - anacondas, Kaa...!!!Any idea what an Inclusion Support Service does? Had a gt. a'noon with DS reading and playing at turning each other into toads and 'goonies' - don't ask, I haven't a clue! My friend who's a teacher was chatting this morning re. DS and said what do pre-school think his strengths are. Do you know, I hadn't stopped to ask myself that and I felt awful . As you all say about your children, he has so many and it is sad that they might not be recognised by the school system or valued as highly as others. But that says more about the system than him.

Goonies are from the book 'Little Rabbit Foo-Foo'. Are you sure we don't have the same son???

Thanks sphil! I asked DS about goonies on the way home, and indeed, it is from the book you said that he read apparently in blue group - several months ago! Who's the author??

Can I just have a mini thread hi-jack please which hopefully might help a bit anyway ?! I've just been to get DD from a party at the local Megabowl. They had over run a bit and were still eating when I got there. She looked so happy and gorgeous chatting away happily to the other children that I had one of those proud parent moments. I also had a note from the SENCO with some stuff about social skills after my conversation with her last week. She put " the majority doesn't apply to minipickle in anyway because she is a happy, sociable child but some of the lines or resources may be worth a look" This seems a long long way from when she was in nursery and the teacher was saying how worried she was about her socialisation and it makes all the stress that we've had along the way seem well worth it.

Lovely proud parent moment!! Sounds like a good day and is reassuring for me to hear positive things like that.. Can I add a PPM (proud parent moment) of my own. DS made a bear mask at school (coloured it in) but tonight wanted to make a princess mask for his sister and drew it and sort of cut it out. Rosy glows all over. So they had a fight in the bath - but so what!!

Oh bless him, I'm not suprised you're having a PPM ! I think siblings are great allies, especially if they sometimes struggle a bit with other children. DS has turned out to be far more useful with this than I anticipated, defintely worth the c/section scar Have you had a chance to sort out any relaxation/pamper time for yourself this weekend ? I really do think it's very important to give yourself some space.

Earthtomummy - I think it's Michael Rosen, but I can't find the damned thing! I think I may have 'tidied' it away when we were going through one of those endless questioning periods - "But WHY does the Good Fairy turn him into a goonie?"
Sounds like your son has an excellent memory, like mine (my son's I mean!)
My own PPM today - DS had 'Pirate Day' at school and he came home clutching a recognisable picture of a pirate with a skull and crossbones hat and TWO wooden legs.

I have read this thread with great interest.

i am also on this rollercoaster with my DS (5). Of all the things he does well:

plays lovely with puzzles, lego, bulding, does the imaginitive play stuff, dosn; fight with this brother and sister very much, can ride his bike, jump hop etc.

At school he is misbehaving and doing innapropriate stuff like:

pushing in the playground, copying what the teacher says in a silly voice, playing wth other childrens hair and when they edge away will follow them.

The teacher has requested behavioural support and I am confused between is he just really naughty and acting out or does he have AS or similar?

His teacher says he doensn;t seem to understand the correct emotional response. Yet he has loads of empathy if someone hurst themselves. hetold me tongith he knows when his teacher is angry as "I can see her face is angry".

The waiting is the worst part until the ed psych comes in. will they be able to diagnose AS if that;s what he has.

He regularly has friends round and plays nicely with them.

I am very confused for this boy who is loving and relatively trouble free at home to the misbehaving one at school.

Maybe it's denial, but I want to get him help sooner rather than later if he needs it, which the teacher thinks he does.

I'm up far too late working so not very coherent. I don't know very much about AS but a good friend has been told that her DS has most probably got this. He's 6 and they have been told that he is too young to get a formal diagnosis and that would come in a year or two. They had a nightmare year which resulted in her DS being excluded then moving schools (I know she won't mind me saying this as she's got various threads on here about it.) I will direct her to this thread and see if she can help, meanwhile I'm sure someone else will be along who can help further.

and meant to say they had the issue of being pretty OK at home then a complete nightmare at school.

Hi everyone. Hope you are all having a good w/e. DH is currently doing his Family Therapy MSc, so I have the kids on Sat am whilst he does academic stuff, but today we went to a big country park with my firend and her kids which was fun. This pm had a couple of hours to myself - although to be honest need a couple of days!! I don't think I've ever got to the point where I felt I couldn't cope a moment longer, like I did by y'day pm. Def. need a back massage. I sympathise with you mumofthreebeauties. It's hard isn't it. My DS is the other way around. Dh and I were chatting away this morning, and he was advising me not to pin my hopes on the people observing DS this wk. He's been in so many meetings etc like that, and not a lot comes of it etc. Anyway, on a more cheerful note I'm going to a friend's for dinner - girl's night. Her husband has gone on a course to find himself for 3 days and left her with 2 kids. She's thrilled.
By the way, sphil, like the 2 wooden legs - an interesting notion!!

Kittypickle, 6 is definitely not too young to dx AS, either way, is he getting any support which is the imporant thing? Mumof3bs, you say the teacher says your child doesn't have AS, I would be a bit wary of just accepting that, she is not qualified to dx (or not in this case!)

Davros, I can't add up, he's just 5, not 6, sorry ! He does have one on one support in the classroom and today is his first fulltime day at his new school and fingers crossed things are going very well now that he's changed schools and gone back to start reception again with support but no formal diagnosis at the moment.

Earthtomummy, I'm glad you got sometime to yourself at the weekend and hope you had a good night with your friend. How are you today ?

Hi mum23b's,

Your ds sounds quite a lot like mine. He has always been a bit of a handful but we had no idea that there was anything wrong until he started school last year. He really couldn't cope and the school were completely crap and made things worse. In the end we had to remove him.

Luckily the LEA agreed to backyear him and he started at another schoo this sept. His new school are absolutely fantastic and he is doing really well. He started fulltime today and he had a fantastic day!!].

He is doing really well now but I know that this is due largely to the support he gets at school. He has fulltime 1:1 support including breaktimes and lunch. Without this support I know he would struggle as he still has some bad days now even with the 1:1 and a fantastic teacher who he loves. By the way he only gets this level of support because he has a statement and I can't emphasise enough how important a statement is when getting support for your child in school.

When everyting kicked off at his old school last year they were convinced it was ADHD but I was sure it wasn't. The paed agreed with me as his behaviour was so much waorse at school than at home. AS was also mentioned and both we and the school filled out the ratings form. At the time I was absolutely convinced that he didn't have AS.

However, over the last year I have read loads on both AS and ADHD. My mum is a SENCO so I have access to lots of info. I began to realise that he does actually have several traits associated with AS and also ADHD and this started me thinking. Also he is another year older and behaviours that we had previously put down to his age have become increasingly more obviously different to his peers.

We saw the paed again in oct and I had made a list of all the behaviours that we had noticed over the last few months and also some examples. I knew when we went that a lot of what I had written down were AS type behaviours but it was still a shock when the paed said that he thought that ds had AS. He will have to wait until he is 7 for an assessment but the paed says to treat him in the meantime as though he has AS as he should respond to the same strategies.

We are just going through the process of applying for DLA for him and I was just saying to kittypickle today that its hard work thinking about all the negative stuff and I almost feel like a fraud - I keep questioning whether I am making too much of a deal about his difficulties. But then when I sit and think about how much hard work he is I realise that he is different and he does need lots of support.

My suggestion to you is to read up on AS. Tony Attwood's book 'Asperger's syndrome: A guide for parents and professionals' is good and easy to read. You should be able to get it from your local library. It was only by finding out as much as i could about conditions like AS and ADHD that I was able to recognise those traits in ds and try to get him help.

It is hard thinking about the possiblilty of him having a lifelong condition that will make things more difficult for him than most of his peers but I agree with Aloha and Kittypickle that having a 'label' really helped me. It has also helped my inlaws understand his behaviour and they are also finding out what they can about AS- especially my MIL. SIL said today that MIL has been telling her all about AS and that she can now understand why ds behaves the way he does - she says it suddenly all makes sense.

The way I think of it is without a labal of SN ds's behaviour gets him another label anyway - one of being a naughty boy. This label is just as, if not more, damaging than one of SN where he is seen as different. By putting ds behaviour into the context of him having AS it all makes sense. He is no longer the naughty boy that is such hard work but instead a little boy who has different needs to most of his peers but can do just as well as them in all aspects of his life with the right support.

Sorry I know this is a long and rambling post but my brain has disintergrated into a big ball of jelly after foolishly throwing my dd a 7th bday party at home - never ever again - talk about tantrums, tears and tiaras!! But that's another story. You can CAT me if you want

Hi Kittypickle and everyone. Had a really good day today. DS played so nicely with his best friend(who we look after on Mons) and even did some action and singing to Boogie Beebies, leaving me wondering what all the fuss is about!I had a lovely w/e abd the weather was sharp and sunny - nice autumn walk weather, so I blew away the cobwebs. I guess that I'm starting to get used to the idea that there are no quick answers and that we will have an amount of uncertainty in the next year or 2, as things either resolve or become more marked. I'm starting to settle to that and get back into the groove, although I'm secretly hoping that when the Senco and Inclusion Support Service see him on Thurs. they'll tell me it's all one big mistake..Do you all have days though when you look at your child and think, problem, what problem. Did list DD's tantrums though - epic.Amusing moment when DS tried to engage best friend in fantasy play. BF (who's really into precise construction type play) struggled when presented with a solid plastic dinosaur and a plastic octopus, which he was supposed to pretend was the remote control device to make aforementioned dinosaur walk...He looked at it tentatively and I twiddled with the tentacles for him, but he just didn't get it. (Secretly I was so proud of my DS' fantastic imagination!!). Another PPM (proud parent moment). Hope you've all had good days too.

Davros

no she didn;t say he didnt have AS. She said he didn't seem to understand emotional responses but he told me he knows when she is angry by her face.

Tonight he toldme he is silly at school because he wants to be in XXXXXX's class (his twin brother).

Yet today he got told off for going close up to someone else's face.

I wish the ed psuch would hurry up Its been nearly a month now and I hate the waiting.

Hi earthtomummy - yes, I've had a day today where I'm wondering what all the fuss is about. DS has bad cough but insisted on going to school today(which makes me think he must be enjoying it).Had a quick word with his teacher after school and she said he's getting much better at sitting and listening, in class and assembly, and that also his personal organisation is improving. I practically skipped home!
Your DS sounds very imaginative and creative. I sometimes wonder whether kids like that do have problems with the more'practical' sides of life because they live inside their heads so much.

Earthtomummy, is it today that your DS is being observed ?