6mo screaming at bedtime - what to do?

[auburnlizzy78]

Our DS has always had a routine of going to bed at 6.30pm to settle himself and be asleep by 7. We've always fed him until he gets dozy, then he generally has gone down without a fight.... until this week.

Although we started on a few solids at week 20, it is only this week that he's on proper meals. He loves them, and is now taking a hearty dinner between 4.45 and 5.30 pm, until he won't eat anymore. It has REALLY helped him to go through the night without any milk feeds - once he finally does go to sleep. Doc and HV had told us to increase the volume of solids so we did so on their advice, giving enough to be able to drop the milk back down to 800ml a day.

DS starts to get really tired at about 6 - so we do the bedtime routine. He will have had his bath already, but we go upstairs to his nursery, keep the lights very low, do nappy change, put on his creams, sit in the chair and feed him a bottle. He always takes loads very quickly (7oz - 9oz -he's a big boy) and we take plenty of time to wind him.

As soon as he is put down he starts crying furiously. He's not ill and we are giving him calpol for his teeth - our GP has OK'd this. We go in every two mins, then every five, to sssh and try to settle him and reassure him, but as soon as we leave again, hysterics. In the end, for the last three nights, he has cried so much for over an HOUR he has been sick. Tonight after he carried on crying after being cleaned up and put back in the cot we got him up and the tears stopped INSTANTLY. I got DH to resettle him after ten mins of hanging out quietly with DS on his lap, and he's now gone to sleep without any fight at all.

Clearly we can't have this every night; 1. the vomiting and crying for an hour; or 2. the encroachment into our evenings again, when DS really is very tired and should be used to the bedtime routine which hasn't ever wavered since week 3 and which he previously accepted.

If we don't feed him enough in the day or at the last feed he wakes up multiple times in the night until we finally give in and give him some milk. So I don't think cutting back on solids or milk, in case it's indigestion, will help.

What are we doing wrong? Anyone else been through this?

They go through phases especially developmentally when a previously good sleeper can stop

It sounds like the CC isn't working but the cuddles are - I always used to cuddle by DS until he was calm and then lay him back down. Bum patting or hand stroking can work very well

Your son is very young - he needs you and he is trying to tell you that if he is calm when he is near you

You talk about giving in and giving him milk at night - if he is hungry and needs a night feed at 6 months then better, IMO, to give the feed when he wakes and get him back to sleep than trying to make him wait - this way you all get more rest

You can also give a feed at 10.00/10.30 pm too

Thanks rubyslippers - we always used to feed in the night and dreamfeed at 10.30 before our GP said that at his size (21lb) he was perfectly physically capable of going 8hours without a feed, and that we needed to cut down on the milk intake anyway (6-7 feeds a day) so he would eat enough solids. HV said that at 6m milk declines significantly in importance.

Our GP said that as long as DS is not in physical discomfort (tangled up in cot, wet nappy etc) he could be left. We can't face doing hardcore CC so that's why the longest gap we leave it is five minutes. But we don't want to make a rod for our own backs either. Difficult to know what to do in the face of all the conflicting advice.

Separation anxiety maybe? If he needs to be cuddled to sleep or is reassured by your presence by his cot, do that. Leaving him may just be making the separation anxiety worse by confirming his fears.

You might be on to something there. Never had an issue when we put him in his co-sleeper cot next to our bed. Maybe he knew we were coming to bed later so didn't mind. We moved him to the nursery at 5.5m because he's so noisy my DH had taken to sleeping with a pillow over his head and earplugs and I was in a different room altogether after getting no more than an hour's broken sleep every time I tried to join them. Again GP and HV said enough was enough and I must admit I don't want DS back in with us even if it might solve the problem.

We keep coming back in the room and never leave him for more than a few minutes, I thought that would be reassurance enough?? Maybe not, or maybe it was but not anymore as he gets older and starts to understand more about relationships.

Size is nothing to do with going through the night

I wake with hunger sometimes!

Also milk doesn't decline that significantly as a nutritional need at 6 months - milk is still a very big part of their daily diet until they are a year and that can include at ngith

I would feed at 10.3o still and if he wakes at night

Agree it could also be separation anxiety

What do your instincts say? You know your baby better than any GP or HV and if they say he is hungry then feed him

You won't be making a rod for your back

I totally get sleep deprivation by the way - both mine were pretty poor sleepers especially my DD

I don't think they have a concept of time at this age, so he doesn't realise you're coming back in five minutes.

"Our GP said that as long as DS is not in physical discomfort (tangled up in cot, wet nappy etc) he could be left"

Well he's right that it won't kill him, but it might leave him distressed and frightened... Is it that big a deal to cuddle him for 10 minutes before bed? If he's confident he can rely on you to meet his needs (emotional and physical) then he's going to be more secure about sleeping alone.

As for night feeds, some babies don't need them after X months/weight, and some do. My ds needed a dreamfeed at 10pm until 8 months, but even after we dropped it he still sometimes wakes for a drink or a bit of reassurance in the night.

I wouldn't worry too much about dropping milk, I think it's quite a natural process from milk being 100% of the diet at 6 months to 50% of the diet at 12 months, but individual babies get there at different paces depending on how quickly they take to solids.

I think the phrase "encroachment into our evenings" is actually very very sad...it sounds like your DS is a huge inconvenience to you (Im sure you didn't mean it to sound like that but it does).

He's still only very little and is crying for a reason-either because he's hungry or because he still wants to know where you are.

Ive got a 21 week old DS2 who is actually still downstairs with us until we go to bed. He has milk at 10.30pm and then sleeps until 7.30am (yes I know at the moment Im very lucky). His weight has nothing to do with it because he was 2 months premature and still only weighs 11lb.

[Sighs]. Sorry, ihearttc but I'm only human. After twelve hours each day of wrangling DS, day in day out with very little support I would like a rest and time with DH in the evenings to recharge without dealing with a screaming baby.

To be clear, before bed he IS cuddled, from the end of his dinner till bedtime, I do a medley of songs while feeding him, from calming hymns to nursery rhymes, then a kiss and put him down to settle himself. Am not a total heartless bitch.

Sorry , haven't been through this with my DD, but wanted to assure you that going into them when they cry doesn't mean you will be making a rod etc, the longest I have ever left DD crying is 2mins & it hasn't turned her into a "needy" baby/child.

We did do some baby whisperer type things though, in particular http://www.babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0 shhh pat (took about 5 days to work) and pick-up/put-down (used when she did occasional night wakings after we'd tried Calpol!). I also had some "white noise" (look on iTunes) which we used at some point, afraid I can't remember what age she was for any of this, she's 2.5 now so it's all a distant memory!!

If some milk at 10/11pm fixes the problem then why not stick with that for another few weeks? Could he be having a growth spurt?

I totally understand-honestly I do. Trust me I get the little support bit...I have a 6 year old DS as well and DH works abroad a hell of a lot -he's usually away at least 1 week a month and when he is home he doesn't actually get home until 7.30ish anyway so most of the hard work is done by me so I really do understand where you are coming from.

I know your not a heartless bitch lol! I just think that sometimes getting them into a routine becomes a little too important when in fact they are still tiny. If it was a 1 year old or an 18 month old then it'd be different but he hasn't got the ability to understand that you need time to recharge in the evening-all he knows is that he wants milk and he wants mummy.

For what its worth I was exactly the same with DS1 and he was in his cot after bath and milk at 7.30pm because he was a completely different baby and didn't need me there. DS2 is very different and Im taking the lead from him...maybe Im making up for the 5 weeks he spent in NICU with no mummy to cuddle him at night I don't know.

All I know is that fast forward a few years and this should hopefully all be a distant memory and your evenings will instead be interrupted by a 6 year old wanting to watch the football with Daddy as it's the easter holidays rather than going to bed!!

Good luck whatever you decide to do-honestly wasn't having a go at you...just looking at it from a different perspective.

Ok, thanks ihearttc.

Think DH and I have both agreed that if we wakes for a not immediately obvious reason (such as a leaked nappy) we feed him and sod what the GP thinks. But in the last week he's NOT needed a feed at 10 or 11 pm or through the night. So we've obviously got the solids right and he's full and satisfied whereas last week before we started proper meals he wasn't - it's just the 6.30pm bedtime screaming that is the issue. I thought you were all going to tell me you thought it was indigestion and to cut back on the solids.

Bessie26 - thanks. We have a sleep-sheep white noise thing which sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Tried pick up put down, for naps anyway, but it seems to give him false hope that he's going to be taken out of the nursery and makes him more upset when he's put back down. But I will check out the link.

I wonder if the lighter evenings are confusing him. When it was dark at 5 that was a signal to him that it was getting near bedtime. Now although his nursery is dark the rest of the house obviously isn't...

What about trying to put him to bed a little later for a couple of nights say 7.30pm and see if it makes any difference? It might be that he's not actually tired and is protesting at being put to bed too early.

Is he happy enough before you actually put him to bed? I just wonder if it'd be worth having him happy smiley but awake for a little longer and then he might (hopefully!) settle a bit quicker.

Might not work at all but could be worth a go.

He's dozing off in his chair, or there's frantic eye rubbing and yawning by 6 - we don't want him to go to sleep completely or he wouldn't take his feed.....or to miss the window and have him overtired and then impossible to settle.

Up until then he's reasonably chirpy, unless naps have gone badly in the day.

I guess as he gets older, even week by week, things might change and he might be able to go a bit later in the evenings?

FWIW my ds is 6mo and if I tried to put him down later than 6pm, he'd go nuts. Absolutely spare. He's really tired by then! We do dinner/milk at 4:45 as well, then bath at 5:40 and bedtime milk/last bit of bottle and down with the door shut by 6. If I leave it later, he screams in my face. There is just no way on God's earth I could settle him easily after that either.

Is it worth trying him earlier? Or if you like the later bedtime, is it worth giving him a little refresher nap before his tea for 20 minutes or so? If my ds is having a growth spurt (and they can be physical and mental), he needs to be down by 5:45 latest.

It sounds like he's eating plenty to me. Does he nap in the day at all?

My word my 6 month old goes to bed at 9pm and sleeps through til 6.30 for a feed and then dozes again til 9am. If I even thought about putting him down to sleep at 7 he'd scream too. Sorry but I think it's just too early.

Must say too that you sound quite dispassionate in your relating of his routine. Almost textbook. Let him guide you and don't be too didactic. Just a suggestion.

If my DD was yawning & eye rubbing at 6, then I would be ready to put her to bed a bit earlier (545ish) not later, but you do need to play it by ear, you will know your DS sleep cues better than anyone else.

tbh it sounds like he is overtired, if he is already falling asleep, eye rubbing etc before you put him to bed, i know mine have always been harder to get to sleep if they are overtired and will scream and need cuddles, walking up and down etc to calm them.

and although the sing songs etc are lovely, maybe he needs it to be calmer before bed, just that again my own children have been easy to get over stimulated when tired and are then again harder to settle.

i would go with getting him in bed a bit earlier maybe and doing a dream feed and then seeing if he goes through till morning?

and 6mths is very young and they do change lots at this age, so bedtime will probably be something taht may need to be moveable depending on him and his development. its good to have a routine of activities etc tho, so he recognises the pattern and knows its wind down time, you may just have to alter the timing depending on him and the day :) xx

We have this sometimes. Over tiredness I think. A short nap before dinner, may be 20-30 mins so he is refreshed. He may then go to bed a bit later, but then sleep a little later in the morning. Win win win! Good luck.

Thanks all, some helpful suggestions I will take on board.

Here is what we did last night: He was tired but not too tired when he took him up at 6.15 - we took him up at the second yawn/eye rub - he was quiet and starting to zone out so think we hit the "tiredness" window nicely for once! The naps yesterday were good, the last one ending at 3.30ish.

He'd had a big dinner again at 5 which he hoovered, and at 6.30 we gave him 200ml formula, cuddled, put him down. We tried staying in his room, nice and quiet, reading a story, and holding his hand while he laid in his cot after feeding and winding, to reassure him we were there. Made NO difference, he screamed and screamed until we got him up again, and gave him more milk - another 190ml which he demolished in about 5 mins (which isn't what I call a suck-for-comfort feed!) then was sick. We cleaned him up, put him back, more yelling and then asleep in five minutes. But again, went through till morning, so no dreamfeed or nightfeed needed. In total he's having three big meals, as much as he will take at each sitting, and still close to a litre of milk a day!

So the problem seems to be that he wants us to feed him until he's sick, which I don't want to be doing every night. If we don't feed him, he winds himself up until he's sick anyway! Mentioned it to the GP today while there on another matter - she said "just do it if that's what he wants... he'll grow out of it. And buy a few more gro-bags and mattress covers".....

Maybe he was so worked up by the time he had the second lot of milk that he drank too much/too quick - maybe offer a 300ml or 350ml as the bedtime feed?

My friend's son downs 10oz for his bedtime feed but then sleeps through, so it's not unheard of. I think you can get 11oz bottles now.

For my next baby.... if there is one, I would like one that is slightly smaller and less greedy, with a set of instructions.....

Hi there, we have a 6 month old and have been experiencing the same thing. We have also done what I like to call compassionate controlled crying (let him cry when he goes down for a wee bit but make sure if it gets too desperate/he's ill/crying too long we cuddle and reassure him) and he has learned how to self-settle very well 90% of the time. At 6 months he sometimes has a hellish time getting to sleep for no reason we can fathom. On nights like this we go up more often and do the pick up/put down cuddle thing. He has been falling asleep on his own in his cot since 8 weeks old so now he can't fall asleep in our arms. We have slightly shot ourselves in the foot with this because he can only fall asleep on his own in his cot. It sounds like we do much the same as you with feeding and routine but our bedtime varies from 6 to 8 depending on naps etc. Our bubs has the same sleep cues and if we try to put him down too early it makes it harder to get him to sleep so I'd stick to what you're doing. One yawn or eye rub and he's up and into bed!
Our DSs sleeping has sorted itself out so perhaps it's just a case of carrying on with the routine and yours will get back into the rhythm shortly.
(sorry, quickly typed this as bubs has woken from nap and needs fed, hope it makes sense. Good luck!!!)