Advice needed please with 11yo, Year 7 DD

[MamaG]

Hello lovelies. Am hoping for a bit of sound advice here.

Background:

Lived somewhere else until December 2009,then moved here. DD changed school halfway through Yr 6 and found it difficult tosettle in. Didn't really make friends. School mentioned Asperger's traits so we took her to a paed who said she didn't think so. We therefore just put it down to her changing schools/towns/everything.

Started high school in September and initially loved it. Again, didn't make lots of friends, tends to flit from one girl to the next. We had an issue a month or so ago when she was sent out of class for being cheeky, went to the looand another girl appeared with the teacher's HANDBAG that they went through, looked at her phone pics then each stole £1 out of her purse.

This was VERY out of character. Never had anything like this before. She was excluded for a day and was devastated by her actions.

Now she's back at school, the two girls that she had gotvery close to have been told not to play with her by their parents after they told them about the incident. She's found another girl to spend time with but I think she spends lot of time alone.

School (high school this time) have said they think she's displaying autistic traits,so I've gone back to GP andasked for a referral to CAMHS to see what they think. An example they used as when, 30 mins before lunch in class, teacher asked if she was eating. she replied "not yet" - they said they would have expected yes or no (?)

I just don't know what to do. She DOES seem different to other girls her age.

She's very clever, amazing memory for facts, shite at maths. She's friendly and confident but just doesn't seem to make friends.

Every day I have to tell her brush your hair, brush your teeth etc - if i don't tell her she simply won't do it. In a lot of ways, she just doesn't appear "switched on". I'll tell her to tidy her room andfollowher up 10 mins later to find her laid on teh bed reading. She's quite lazy with "jobs" around the house, sulks a lot and needs constant chivvying.

She's my PFB so Idon't know if this is typical of 11yo girls (August baby).

If anybody could give me ANY advice, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks

(I have asked school for more information as to why they think she my be on AS so that I can provide sameto CAMHS)

I don't have an 11 yr old myself but do have a niece and I have a son with aspergers traits and I am a secondary school teacher by profession. I think the flitting from friends bit and the incident with the handbag sound very common to me. My niece went to a secondary school where she knew no-one from primary and really struggled to find her niche. She wanted to be in with the cool gang and ended up doing some online bullying which was very out of character and was down to her trying to fit in. I think the school could do with trying some techniques to help her find a social group. We used "circle of friends" to help kids understand others a bit better. They certainly could speak to the parents who have told their daughters not to play with yours, I think that's unreasonable.
In terms of aspergers lots of the things you say ring a bell with my ds who is only 5. He has to be told things specifically and clearly (ie "come here everyone" will be ignored because he only answers to "shoppingbags' ds), needs to be told how to do daily jobs every day, and has struggled to find his place in the social group at school. He is very literal like your dd, he would also have answered "not right now" to a question like "are you eating" if he wasn't chewing at that precise moment. He too is well above average in terms of intelligence, recall of facts etc. My advice would be to see your GP and, if money will allow, see a Paed privately. We spent £100 to see ours, we got a 45 min appointment which allowed us to properly discuss all our worries and we ended up higher up the list to see the NHS autism team.
HTH

What was she like at her old school? Did they have any concerns about her? It sounds as though she's lonely and is acting up to get attention.

My soon to be 11 year old gets easily distracted and is the same re: teeth,hair face etc.

If the school has said she has autistic traits you need to ask them to clarify exactly what they mean and how are they going to deal with her needs. The school SENCo (special needs co-ordinator) should refer dd to be assessed by the Educational Psychologist and refer to CAMHS. She should have an IEP (individual education programme/plan) with targets and methods of achieving them. It's not good enough to say she has autistic traits and then leav you to it.
I'd make an appt. with the school SENCo and Head of Year and ask for their guidance and support.

She sounds a bit anxious, but you know we can't diagnose her on here. CAMHS is a good place to start. Is there stuff going on at home for her (don't feel gloved to answer)?

My DD 11 needs all the reminding about teeth/hair/lights etc. Never tidies up, cannot find anything. This morning I had to remind her to pack up her clarinet for school. She then left it in the kitchen! Took her to school for the first time in months and retrieved 4 lunchboxes. I do not think she has Aspergers. I think she is just 11.

I think your DDs answer to the question about eating is clever and verging on cheeky and would have probably annoyed me if I was her teacher. I know one quite severe case of Aspergers which is very obcious. but there is a girl in DDs class who is said to have Aspergers and she is downright naughty a lot of the time (SN people please don't jump on me) but she receives a lot of support from the school.

Sorry not to offer any advice - just trying to say that a lot of your DDs behavious is pretty normal for her age.

DD is 12 and has Asperger's. A few things that she struggles with that are markers - other than awful social problems and literal answers - are hyper sensitivity (hates the feeling of many clothes, has to have labels cut out, doesn't like bright light so shuts bedroom curtains all the time); doesn't make eye contact with new people and struggles with people she knows; is easily distracted - she only focuses on one thing at a time, so if TV was on and I asked her to get something from upstairs, by the time she gets there she can't remember what to get, and even forgets she was sent to get something; obsessive behaviour, her obsessions include SIMS, and living dead dolls, she can talk for hours about these, and as she doesn't understand about turn-taking in conversations and she can't read body language (also Asperger's) she doesn't stop or let them speak.

Also, no empathy or the ability to see things from other people's perspective. A test I got told about for this is the glasses test. Mum puts her glasses on the mantelpiece and walks out of the room. Brother moves glasses onto the table (all in the sight of ASC child who is also in the room). Mum comes back into the room. Where does she think her glasses are? Neurotypical people would put themselves in Mum's shoes and know that she thinks they are on the mantelpiece. The ASC child only sees from there perspective and assumes Mum does too, so says the table, as the ASC child saw them being moved there even though Mum didn't.

Our GP referred her to CAMHS. She was diagnosed immediately just before 11th birthday. It takes a while for them to spot girls, usually because they mask better or are protected by their peers. My DD never was, and has never really had any friends.

They are vulnerable to suggestion by other people and can be easily led as they take things on face value and don't understand subtext or ulterior motives.

My DD is August too!

exitpursuedbyalamb - aspergers kids can appear naughty, it's because they just don't think the same way the majority of us do. Similarly my ds can appear rude as he compulsively tells the truth and follows rules, he just doesn't understand when others don't so has been known to tell off adults in shops for breaking rules. People tut as if he is being cheeky.

Some ASC children are naughty. But by that I mean that they won't bend their behaviour to fit in with expectations, so if they want to sit with their head on the table, they will. Many have meltdowns or tantrums when they can't cope. DD is scared of needles, and has had to have many procedures done recently. She has never really thrown tantrums before, but on these occasions she has turned into a giant toddler - hitting and screaming - because she is scared and loses control. 'Cheeky' behaviour is often when they question something you say in front of a class. It sounds rude, but is masking a genuine question of not understanding. I'm not talking about DD here who doesn't tend to do this, but I'm an 11-18 teacher too in a school with dozens of ASC children. I have seen a spectrum of behaviour from children with this condition.

Sorry shoppingbags I cross posted with you and it sounds like I'm directly disagreeing with you because of my opening sentence! I'm not. I completely agree with you. DD is same with rules.

Thanks very much for your replies. I have asked teh SENCo to let me have a detailed letter setting out why they think she is showing the autistic traits so I have something to go on wih the CAMHS people - interesting re asking school to ring the parents of these two girls who have been told notto play with her. I did mention that to school and the head of KS3 just said "oh a lot of girls flit from group to group" and dismissed it almost. I've put a call in to the SENCo and will mention re the other girls.

It's very difficult isn't it. Appreciate you taking the time to reply :)

I really don't wish to be mean but its darn right selfish to move a child in secondary school once they have settled, sending them to a school where the children already have established friendships, it is no wonder she is in trouble and not settling, she has no grounding with her friendships as YOU moved her.

People move their kids willy nilly never understanding the distress it causes to children. Real mean.

Can offer no advise on the aspergers business but your DD sounds like mine and she's going to be 12 soon.

For example, very clever but I have to remind her about everything ie shower, hair wash, breakfast time etc and I do not mollycoddle her - I want her to be independent.
As for school I think , like the other poster the lunch answer was clever and as for friends my DD is still finding her feet with regard to new friendships she's been led astray a little but has worked out for herself who the "good" guys are in class and is settling into some sort of friendship with them but its not like I had ie its texting, its MSM but not yet facebook by which I mean I think its lending itself to lots of aquaintancies and not a lot of life long friends

FabbyChic - thats a bit harsh - isn't Year 6 in junior school not secondary? MamaG said she moved during Year 6 not Year 7?

MamaG - do you know the parents of the two girls? Could you speak to them or write a letter asking them if they would reconsider and explaining why? I have done this when DD3 was sitting on the "lonely bench" every playtime and no-one came to play. I could hear myself saying to my daughter to keep away from a child I thought was a bad influence (particularly if I thought the parents encouraged or ignored such behaviour) but if the parent took the trouble to talk to me and ask for a bit of tolerance and help I dont think I would refuse.

My DD3 sounds in many ways like yours MamaG - my two elder DDs say she is a bit odd and often comment that the way she interacts with other girls is not going to endear her as a friends - nothing mean just never quite reacting in what we might consider a "normal" way. She just doesnt seem to "get" how friendships work - the reciprocity - and gets very upset when other girls are not nice to her. In fact, she launches into major distress mode at seemingly very small things which tends to leave us all bewildered at her inability to deal with small hiccups and setbacks.

Not trying to hijack but I am interested in your experiences because we are going to have to move at some stage over the next 18 months (not because we are mean but because my job has moved and I am away from home 2/3 nights a week and DD3 is distressed). She is currently in Year 5 - do I move her so she can meet other children in junior school and they can move up to secondary together or do I move her just before she goes to secondary where children will be coming together from many different schools?

Fabbychic, that is very harsh.
MamaG moved her DD during Year 6, that is primary school.

Lots of children move school, yes even during secondary school, regularly. Circumstances change, jobs move, etc.
The large majority of children cope with these moves just fine. Children are remarkably resiliant.

Fabbychic - FUCK YOU.
you have no idea of the circumstances of my move. It was primary school, not secondary school.Now fuck off back into your hole.

Thanks to the others - I've spoken to the SENCo again last night and he's going to speak to the other two girls who've been told not to play with her and then speak to their paernts.

Hey mamaG havent seen you on here in a while, how are you?

I dobt know anything about aspergers, but i know my dd was the same at 11 with being asked to do everything, shes still like it at 14, tidy your room, make your bed, empty the dishwasher blah blah, its like groundhog day and i get sick of the sound of my own voice.
No idea about the school stuff though as dd has always been good at school shes just a madam at home.

mamag its me the fish

shoppingbags is rl mate
let me give you her email

Hi there nothing helpful to add on your ds as I have younger boys, just wanted to comment on the "when to move schools thing", it is never easy but based on my own experiences I would say always try and mOve them at the normal junctures if you can (not always possible I know) - ie y3 infant to junior or between y6 and y7 juniors to seniors. I was moved after the first year of senior school to a different country and actually moved from y7 to y9 and I think, as this three shows, this I the worse time for vulnerable teenage girls. It was the worse thing that my parents could have done and, inane respects, ruined my life or at least sent it in a very different direction. I have a lot of resentment to my parents to this day. In that sense mamaG I th

Sorry stupid iPhone - think you did the best thing for you dd moving here in y6 before senior school.

An dd not ds!!

mamaG that's good news about the SENCO speaking to parents. When ds started at pre-school a number of parents complained about him (he used to smack A LOT) and the teacher was amazing about it, explained to them (with my permission) his problems and they were a lot more understanding. I think people tend to jump to conclusions and pigeon hole kids as "naughty" but when they think more carefully they can see that that's not fair.
Feel free to email me, I have become a self taught "expert" on aspergers, now that I'm not spending all my time crying about it I find it fascinating and can see some major positives to it too.

Sorry that you came here for support MamaG and got spoken to so harshly.
I'd push to see a developmental pead for an assessment.
Autism is such a huge spectrum and aspergers is often noticed much later than a child with the more bog standard ASD ( my three have Asd and their dad had it too.
My three all present very differently
I have identicle twin girls 16 they have moderate learning difficulties, they appear very withdrawn around people for at least an hour then they will talk sing and giggle rather a lot. They are very fixed and obsessive mostly prefering objects to people.
My son is almost 14 same Dx but much more able, amazing memory, will often say can you remember when we went to the cinema and saw such and such a film, it was on sat month and time included plus who went where they sat what they were wearing. Yet if I send him to his room to get something he could be missing for hours as he'll be reading a book or writing a story.
I know dozens and dozens of kids on the spectrum yet no two are alike my identical twin girls are very different, which is not really surprising I guess.

That comment reminded me of a comment made to my mum when she had the audacity to move me in secondary school and the local MP thought my mum was the worse mum in the world ever and how dare she move me, how bad a mum etc etc, until my mum informed him that it wasn't her fault my dad comitted suicide and we were being thrown out of the police house as he was a police officer. That shut him up and I was moved very quickly thank you!

MamaGEEEE

Hello - how lovely to see you on here again.

I am sorry your dd is having some trouble. FWIW I think that the year 6/year 7 transition is an absolute nightmare for girls. DD was very unhappy at that age and flitted from friend to friend trying to fit in. Everything is a lot happier and easier now she is 15, ironically.

I also moved 150 miles when she was at the beginning of Year 6, this was a cause of her being unsettled I think, as friendship groups were fixed at that age.

Yes she was silly in going through the teacher's handbag, but you say that she is sorry, and has been punished, so I think you don't need to dwell on it. Yes I agree that you should go through the SEN to see if she is on the spectrum, but it could well be the fact that she is finding her feet bless her.