Is it normal to still have constant tantrums at 3 1/2?

[Angiel]

My ds is driving me mad he is the most bad tempered, miserable kid, I have ever come across.

The day starts with him waking at 6.30 am and realising his dad has gone to work. He then cries and whinges for his dad constantly until he has woken up my dd's.

He normally refuses to eat his breakfast and ignores every request I make of him, while we are trying to get ready to take my dd to school.

The walk to school is generally embarrasing as he screams most of the way there and back. This behaviour continues on and off all day, until I feel like I'm going mad.

I have started to avoid taking him out in public as I know it will end in some sort of scene and I just can't face it.

He has reached all of his physical milestones but emotionally he seems very troubled. I keep wondering if there is something wrong with him, I don't know what though.

Do you think I have just got a stroppy little boy or would it be worth delving a bit deeper? Any advice would be gratefully received. TIA.

You have all my sympathies....
Obviously if you are really worried you should have a chat with your HV, but it may be worth waiting a little while to see whether 'it's just another phase' (how I hate those words....!).

My DS1 is now almost 4, but we certainly had a lot of grumpiness at times in the last year.
It always seemed to get worse when there were changes occurring e.g. new teachers at nursery/ grandparents staying/ holidays/ development of siblings (e.g. when DS2 started to crawl...)
Has anything changed for your DS recently that he could be reacting to (positive or negative?).

I think they change so much between 3 & 4 that sometimes they just can't cope with all the emotions and it manifests itself as tantrums?

For what it's worth, we still get stroppy outbursts for the most bizarre (to us) reasons, e.g.

• floods of tears because his bath towel was wrapped round him the 'wrong way' after his bath
• refusal to eat breakfast 'cos our au pair put the milk on his cereal and he wanted to do it himself
• tantrum because I put him in short PJs and he wanted long

and so it goes on....

Maybe you could try to get your DS to 'help out'/ take responsibility for his own things more? Our DS1 was much more interested in breakfast when we allowed him to get it all himself.
HTH
Mo2

For what it's worth I totally agree with Mo2. My two love it when I buy the individual cereals in the small boxes then let them pick one and open it themselves.
As for the rest of the day............!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes I find it helps to completely ignore the behaviour. If you try to please them by wrapping the towel the other way etc they get the feeling that they are controlling you.

I tell dd that I can't understand her when she shouts and screams about something and that she will have to calm down and tell me calmly about what it is she wants. This doesn't mean that she gets it all the time

It's a method that works for me and she is learning a level of self controll which will be invaluble later on in life.

That's not to say this method is always easy - to begin with she'd ignore me but I persisted with the I can't understand you route until she understood. You have to say this in a calm tone though as getting cross and shouting at her defeats the object.

My ds 3 years and 7months is just the same. He has developed this insessant whine when I say no to something. It starts half way through me explaining why he can't have it, I have had more shouting from him in the street than I ever did, he never did it when he was younger. I have developed to ignore alot of it and if I can sense that he is really destressed about a disagreement we have had, then I'll sit calmly and explain. We had a sceaming tantrum last night because he wanted to pour the water from the fridge into daddy's cup but because daddy wouldn't let him just this once ( he normally does) all hell broke loose.
But Angiel, if you are worried speak to your health visitor but I think it could be a stage he is going through. My ds can be really stroppy, but I think they are at this age. They are very vocal and can winge and moan as much as anybody else but I am going through it with mine now and I sympathise with you too.

Angiel I can really sympathise as I've been on the verge of posting a similar plea. My dd is 3 and 7 months and tbh not the most pleasant person to be around most of the time. Everything is a battle and she is vile to ds (18mo). She really hurts him, grabbing him by the throat, pushing him over - obviously looking for attention but the thing is she gets loads of attention! I always wanted 3 or more children but (terrible confession time) she's put us right off the idea. Ds is such an easy sunny child as well that he throws her behaviour into relief. I'm going to have a chat with my HV and see what she thinks - I'll report back later today.

There is always talk of 'the terrible twos' but really 3.5 is much worse. Everything is a battle from getting dressed to eating, getting in the car, walking to school etc. I find if I turn things into a game I manage to get most things achieved - ie. getting dressed race, playing follow the leader to school etc. I heard this age referred to as the 'threenager' which fits. I would say your ds is pretty normal Angiel but if the stress is getting too much do see your health visitor

Bron, can I ask who says not to eat for 12 hours? I always eat to appetite even when my stomach is upset and it has never made things worse. I think it must be very hard for a small person not to eat if they are very hungry.

No, no, no, Angiel you don't have the world's stroppiest little 3yo I DO!. DS is the most emotional child I can imagine. My nearly 2yo scratches her foot she whinges a bit loudly & continues whatever she was doing. My nearly 4yo scratches his foot and it's major crisis time. Has very limited ability to listen, compromise or not do what he doesn't want to do. Won't walk if he's too cold or too hot. Falls apart completely if he gets upset, especially if we scold him for something we have repeatedly asked him not to do. Has no ability to grasp consequences. If he takes an interest in something he has to interact with it; cannot leave things he likes alone. I've nicknamed him Pest. Mornings start with him trying to pull me out of bed saying "Mummy, I want you to come downstairs with me." I can't help myself when I say to him, "Repeat after me, 'I am a Pansy'".

Meanwhile, everyone tells me how well-mannered he is, sweet, nice, etc. I swear he takes a personality transformation potion milliseconds before I pick him up from child-minder.

My DS is 3 - also has tantrums - usually beginning and end of day - triggered by frustration - me saying 'no' to something - tiredness (him and me!) - and the desire to test out where the boundaries are.

I cope by telling myself it's developmental - he's still a small person learning to cope in a big world where, in reality, he has little control over events.

No fantastic ideas - but sending support to say you're not alone - and try not to worry too much !

Dd was still having them at 3, 4 and still pulls the odd number (normally a humdinger) at the ripe old age of 6. Try 1.5 hours when we were on holiday!!!!!

That said, she is normally a polite, bright, funny, loving child, who is great fun to be with. She is very popular at shool and her teachers think she is great.

She has just got my temper, and needs to learn hor to control it.

Yup.

I agree that the terrible twos are nothing compared to the even-more-terrible threes! My ds is still a bit like others described here and he's 4 and a half! I'm trying similar tactics to Jenie. If ds screams at me or whinges I tell him I can't understand what he wants unless he talks properly. It usually works. (Of course, sometimes it doesn't and I scream right back at him, much less effective!)

Zebra, tha pansy thing made me laugh.

Ds has been pretty diffilcult since 2.5, now 3.4 and his tantrums can be non-stop some days. I am sure other mothers mutter about him, he is the one most often having a paddy during any M&T groups we go to. I even considered taking him to the doctor to see if he had some sort of special behavioural needs. There again, for the last 2 days he has been the most beautiful and angelic child imaginable. I presume he will continue to have tantrums but they will become fewer as he reaches adulthood.

ZEBRA, TRY A 13 YEAR OLD BOY (kEVIN THE TEENAGER), 10YEAR OLD BOY WHO'S OBSESSIONAL ABOUT THINGS, 8 YEAR OLD GIRL WHO'S HORMONES ARE KICKING IN AND A FOUR YEAR OLD WHO'S TEACHERS CAN'T BELIEVE IT WHEN I TELL THEM ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOUR AT HOME! YOU ARE NOT ALONE-I KNOW IT DOESN'T REALLY HELP BUT WE ALL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. (SORRY ABOUT THE CAPITALS, JUST SORTED OUT A MAJOR FIGHT AND I MEAN A REAL KICKING, BITING MATCH AND I DIDN'T CHECK THE PRINT ETC) GOOD LUCK AND KEEP POSITNG1

Angiel and others
Thanks for all these postings - haven't logged on for a while - but going through a v bad patch with ds (4.5) most of the time he is okish sometimes brilliant - but there are some absolutely terrible tantrums where it is like a light going off in his brain - he didn't want me to leave the carpark of dd's nursery the other day for some strange reason and grabbed at the steering wheel kicking and screaming to stop - he has done this once before and nothing could snap him out of it = when I got home he wouldn't get out of the car which I ignored for a while and then managed some coaxing - is there something wrong? I sometimes think we need professional help the tantrums are almost trance like and he sometimes wakes in the night in this state - is this normal???

I've had another nightmare day with my ds. I suppose it is comforting to know I'm not the only one going through this, but I can't help thinking, at the back of my mind, that he might have some sort of problem.

He can be completely normal one minute, very loving and affectionate and then turns into a screaming banshee.

I had to take dd1 to a party this afternoon and he screamed and screamed after I had gone, kept trying to get out of the house, hit and kicked my mum for ages.

I've had a pretty crappy day really, I've been shouting since about 6.30 this morning and he's still awake. My dd2 also seems to be going through a personality change and is becoming a stroppy little madam. Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggggggghhh!!

Sorry to hear you've had another rubbish day Angie. I know how you feel, we've been so close to getting dd assessed as she shows quite a few Asperger type traits and the worry of is she isn't she is so hard to deal with. Plus the whole guilt thing of 'is it something we've done wrong' which logically I know it isn't but illogically I can't understand why everyone else seems to have a far easier time than us. However I'm feeling cheered by this thread in a perverse sort of way. Maybe the good behaviour thing is as much of a myth as the sleeping through the night thing when they're babies - everyone else seems to have no trouble but when you delve deeper everyone else is having just the same problems. Yesterday dd was vile, today she was lovely. Have resolved with dh to put up with less whinging as that's the thing which drives us both insane. I didn't speak to the HV in the end - there's more helpful info on mumsnet

Angiel, in answer to your question, as everyone else has said, is OMG yes!!!

But one other thing that came to mind is that boys get a testosterone surge at around 3 1/2-4yrs. And I've seen this in my dds friends, that it can turn previously sweet natured little lads into raging devils! But it is a phase, and does settle down, after a while. Not sure if that helps any. Like the others, if your'e concerned get it checked with your hv/doc? Hope you have a better day tomorrow?

Can I just ask, is he your 2nd of 3? Does he get much time with you/dh on his own? I know my dd2 would always play up when it was time to get ready for school. And I had many a journey of her screaming all the way. But she would be easier if we had some time, however short, on our own focusing on her. Anyway, good luck.

Thank God, I have a normal 3.5 DS too!!

I find this site really inspiring when the concern/doubt/despair/anger/dis-believe feelings set in about the normality of our DS and his tantrums/logic etc.

Thanks Mumsnet for being there to allow Mums like
us to chat to each other and give each other the
confidence we all need!

Right, back to that discussion of WHY DS can't poor Daddy's boiling water onto his coffee!!! (grin)

Hi Batey - yes he is the middle one and I do wonder whether that is part of the problem. We had the usual screaming all the way home from school this morning but he has been pretty good all day. Fingers crossed he will be ok tomorrow as well.

Message withdrawn

What have you tried?? Is he at a pre-school/playgroup? What do they think of his behaviour?

This may be a crap idea... bUt have you thougth about cranial osteopathy?

Iknow its normally used for babies but it might just relax him a little so he can enjoy life a bit more. My woman who saw ds3 ( and I really was a huge sceptic) said she did it on older boys sometimes..

Also - I am sure you are great with him but have you ever listened to yourself? As we all know we can all be miserable old bags nearly all the time and forget to be positive and praise and distract...
Oh for the energy!

HTh -

Harman, Ill have to be quick as I'm leaving work now, but yes my dd still has constant tantrums at 3 and a half.
In fact she seems angry a lot of the time and the slightest thing can set her off.