Any other children fascinated with numbers?

[BlueberryPancake]

This is genuinely not a show off thing. I just want to know if you know of/if your own DS/DD has the same 'issues' as I'm not sure where this is going to take us.

DS2 is 3 and 10 months. He has always been fascinated with numbers. From when he could point he would point at numbers (door numbers, numbers on car numberplates, numbers on the phone, on clocks, etc). His favorite books were from a very young age (under 1 year old) books that had the page numbers and he would point at the numbers instead of the images. From about 12 months old he has been able to identify (if we'd ask 'where's number 6') all numbers from 1 to 9.

If we walk down the street he still 'spots' numerals everywhere. He can now say all numbers to 100, count in 2s, in 5s, in 10s, and he can do simple additions. He asks about 15 times a day 'what's 2+2? What's 4+4'? What comes before 15? etc.

If we play with dice he will throw two dice and look at the dots, and without actually counting the dots one-by-one he will shout 'ELEVEN' etc.

The other day we saw a big delivery van which had a gigantic '1000' on the side. He asked me 'what's that number' and I said it's one thousand. He started crying - he said no mum, it's 100 + another 0 so it still 100.

Another strange event happened last week he asked his dad 'what's two twos?' so my husband explained to him that it was two times two, so it's four. DS thought for a minute and said 'so ten tens is one hundred?'

The thing also is that he has a severe speech delay and said his first word at 2.5 and first sentences at 3.

I'm not sure what I'm asking for really. We are very puzzled as to what he is thinking, what is going on in his little head, if you know other children who have the same fascination. He is generally a well behaved and very sweet little boy.

This sounds like my brother. as a child he used to write copy books full of numbers. sometimes they had patterns, sometimes not. He went on to get a degree in theoretical physics. but he couldn't say je m'appelle david after 14 years of french classes.

some people's minds just work that way!

Yes, it reminds me of my DD, who is now four and half. Numbers seem to be her thing, she asks lots of question, has a poster of her times tables that she persuaded my mum to buy her and she will often be found reading them all out loud. She has been able to do that counting by sight thing for ages too. She can tell you whether a number is odd or even and will write out a number line with negative numbers. All we have ever done is answer her incessant questions about numbers!

'some people's minds just work that way'

I'm not sure about this - I do wonder if anybody's mind could work that way, but most of us just don't have the fascination/interest in numbers to develop our brain's more mathematical side. Quite where the interest comes from to start with though... who knows?

Ds was a little like the OP's ds as a tot. He's 16 now and a fairly typical teenager, but still very good at maths (and quite musical too which sometimes seems to go with maths for some reason).

Yes DS is like this. He's only 2.6 but he is obsessed with numbers, clocks, and can already pick the missing number out of a sequence - nothing complicated, just 3*56 he would know a 4 was missing.

One of my brothers was just the same though, so I guess it seems normal to me.

DS was like that at a similar age. By five or six he was getting really excited about infinity and negative numbers. I think he was five when he told us how many leap years there had been since jesus was born...

He's now twelve and came home from school very excited today: he had been getting a bit bored in his maths lessons (top set, selective school) and so the teacher had given him the international GCSE coursebook to get on with. Luckily he does talk about things other than numbers now, but the fascination has never really gone away.

I'm not sure if it's related, but he was also quite slow to talk - didn't say mama until about 18 months, hardly said anything until two, and was fairly unclear in his speech (had difficulties with a lot of consonants etc) until around four. He still has trouble with f/th, but is otherwise normal now, and very keen on learning new languages.

Both my dss had/have the facination, something in the thread reminded me of when ds1 was 4 & he wrote pages & pages of sequential numbers but didn't leave a gap in between each one so they looked like one huge number. Ds2 could count beyond 100 at nursery & recognise any 2 digit number.

They are now 8 & 10, I have been told both are on the G&t register for Maths. Ds1 got 4a in y4 for maths & ds2 got 3b in Y2. They both just love numbers but hate writing. At least ds2 will read. Ds1 point blank refuses to read anything. They are all different.

Sounds like your ds will be quite numerate in the future!

oh yes DS2 was like that - obsessed with the, and taught himself to tell the time using Cbeebies, and our clock on the wall when he was in nursery. I know I didn't teach him, exH certainly didn't, and DS1 definitely didn't (DS1 was much slower to learn to read the time).

Our clock on the wall had 2 lines at the top to show where 12 was, and single lines all the way around, so no numbers at all, yet he could tell me what "o'clock" or "half past" it was accurately.

He's 7 now (YR2) and it's definitley still with him. He's average/just above average for everything else except for maths.

DS1's fascinaion was with cars, makes, parts, etc.................

Ok. Are you worried? I imagine that yoummust be as you have posted on here.

Does he go to nursery?
Does he socialize with other children?

DS1 (5) loves patterns, and always see's things in this way. He also says I love you infinity and one as he understands how things in the world are circular. The 'one' being more than infinity. He is not esp bright, just loves numbers, and always has. I think it is a boy thing

Not a boy thing in our house - DD (4) loves numbers and always has done. She counted the cars today on a fairly long journey and announced that there were 306 of them. (No reason to think that she's wrong about that.) She also reads maps and makes geometrical shapes way beyond what would be expected for her age.

OTOH DS (3) can count to 6.

DS is 3 and can count to 100, at least. We take ages to walk down the road as he is busy looking at the house numbers. He could count to twenty at about 2.5.
He can count to twenty in French as well.
The first thing he said to me this morning was "SEVENTEEN!"
He has some velvet covered foam numbers and his favourite one is number 5. He takes it everywhere, its like his security blanket.
His favourite books are the Numberlies series - numbers one to ten, who are in a story each.
He also knows and recognises the alphabet so one of his favourite things is to read number plates.
He was slow to talk, and although his speech isn't too bad, its all about naming things and he doesn't really get social language. So, he won't say Hello without prompting. He has only just started saying yes, and only sporadically, and he doesn't say no - ever.

I was like that at that age. I used to like to count especially. You can count quite high apparently on an hour long journey on the tube to nursery! I went on to get a PhD in maths... I was also very slow speaking. I'm sure that these days, everybody would have got worried about me but I think I turned out normal if a bit geeky.

it's funny - DS3 (3) has just counted to 50 (he's shown no interest in numbers) - difference with him and DS2 though is that DS2 definitely understood the concept of the numbers............DS2 unders the concept of counting and numbers and what it actually means.....up to about 5

I'm getting al ittle worried of these tales of PhD's in maths, and the like - I struggled with GSCE - DS2 could be talking over my head the whole time

My ds is like this. He is now 8 years old.
Interestingly he is dyslexic and really struggles with reading, and especially writing, but he is brilliant at maths. On a wet lunchtime he sits and does pages and pages of sums, algebra is his favourite. He is exceptional at Maths and has remained unbeaten by anyone (including his teacher) for a months and months now. He plays games of chess in bed, against himself on a board he has fashioned out of lego! He can even beat the laptop at chess!
Dh has a science background and still has a few of his maths books around, and ds likes to look at them. I am finding pages of algebra and other sums under his bed all the time!

DS's 1st number was a 2 and he recognised it at 10mts. He has always loved numbers and at 3 could tell us the prices of cars on the forecourt ie: 10,995. He adds and takes away all the time. He enjoys it. He isn't 'gifted' just interested. He understands number placement values and asks to do maths. He's 4 now and we make no big thing of it, it's just something he can do like other kids are great at other stuff.

Snorkie, have you met somebody who doesn't just love maths, but seems to feel it? I am so oblivious to maths outside of a maths class so to speak, but to some members of my family, maths is everywhere, the first thing they see, the most relevant thing of all. They notice patterns everywhere, they can relate everything to maths. It is obvious to them. Maths is real life. Everything else is just.... wallpaper.

Valium that is exactly what my ds is like. See patterns in everything, he seems to think in an entirely different way to everybody else.

Valium, no I don't think I have, not to quite that extent in any case. I have met several scarily bright mathmos in my time, who seem to easily make connections that others can't, but it's always seemed to be more of an extremely geeky hobby than a lifestyle.

My nephew was very similar OP and my sister felt worried...she got him assesed but he was not on the autistic spectrum...just very bright!

He is 7 now and reading ike a 12 year old. He's very challenging due to his constant need for information but he is very very lovely. His mind is brilliant and he is socialising wonderfully.

Thanks for all your replies!

DS does have a social 'problem' he much prefers playing on his own than with other kids and at pre-school he plays on his own. He is very good at communicating with us and his brother, and OK in very small groups of 2-3 children (that are familiar to him). But we always associated his late social development with his slow speech, not with his 'abilities' at Maths.

He has already been tested for a variety of things but all related with his language, not with his numbers thing.

Yes I think that he 'gets' numbers (something I have to admit I don't really get myself). If we walk down the street he'll look at door numbers and say '157', then spot the next number and say' '155' - and say 'so next one mummy is 153?'

I did have concerns about autism but he has been tested and he is OK. Also his physical development is fine, ie can do all this expected at his age - hop, skip, catch a ball, walk down stairs one foot at a time, hold a pen, put shoes on, etc.

Yes I think he will be good at maths at school and I will encourage it, as unfortunatly his 'talent' doesn't come from my side of the family....

Blueberry what 'test' did your son have for autism and by who?

When he turned 3 we had concerns over his lack of speech and some of his behaviour (he does speak a lot better now). He was seen by a team of specialists at a Children Development Centre. He was seen by a pedeatrician (a list of questions for about one and a half hour, questions for me and various tests for him), a child psychologist and a speech therapist. He was also seen subsequently by a educational psychologist. More recently, I had a long discussion with a neurologist, who asked me lots of questions about his general development and tested DS skills such as throwing a ball, catching a ball, hopping on one leg, drawing a circle, drawing a square, doing puzzles (he did show off during that bit) and other things like a physical exam. He also had three hearing tests in total (one at birth, one when he was 2 -he cried all the way through the test - so they had to do it again when he was about 2.5 and all clear.

Our main concern is that he wasn't turning his head when called and was focusing on one toy for very long periods of time. But no repetitive behaviour/obsessive behaviour and he doens't care at all about routines and/or lack of.

Is there a specific test you had in mind?

Yes my ds was just the same could manipulate numbers from his earliest days he was dx'ed at three with autism. Has your ds had an ADOS test to rule out autism it's just that with the talents with numbers, speech, social and behavioural difficulties that would be a major concern for me.

No he hasn't had ADOS test. I'm sure we could take this offline but did you request the test or was it offered to you?

He is being followed very closely and the concern was never raised, even mentioned, about autism (although I am not ruling it out in my mind). His understanding of language is very good, he is sociable with adults and tries to speak to them a lot. When he had his first visit to the pedeatrician, he walked right up to the man, looked him in the eyes, smiled at him, and shook his hand! I was suprised of this myself...

I have been asked a lot of questions about his play, his general development, how he plays with his brother, and all looks OK. He has good creative play, he loves puppets and pretend play. He does have a tendency to put things 'in order' of size, from the smallest to the biggest, from a very young age and is very good with puzzles.

Do you think I should push for the test?

Many thanks,

BP

The ADOS seems to be the test offered just about everywhere. My ds was dx'ed 13 years ago through a multi disciplinary assessment and observations at CDC nursery rather than the ADOS tbh but that's the way it's done here.
Ds has benefited by having an early diagnosis, he got specialist support and I gained an understanding of his specific difficulties and ways to help him.
I am surprised that no one has ever mentioned autism as there are plenty of pointers in just your OP to suggest that autism would be a consideration tbh.
For me I would ask for an ADOS because if Autism Spectrum Disorder is a possibility then the sooner support and intervention is put in place the better. Also school brings its own set of problems and the right label can determine the right support and placement.