Any other children fascinated with numbers?

[BlueberryPancake]

This is genuinely not a show off thing. I just want to know if you know of/if your own DS/DD has the same 'issues' as I'm not sure where this is going to take us.

DS2 is 3 and 10 months. He has always been fascinated with numbers. From when he could point he would point at numbers (door numbers, numbers on car numberplates, numbers on the phone, on clocks, etc). His favorite books were from a very young age (under 1 year old) books that had the page numbers and he would point at the numbers instead of the images. From about 12 months old he has been able to identify (if we'd ask 'where's number 6') all numbers from 1 to 9.

If we walk down the street he still 'spots' numerals everywhere. He can now say all numbers to 100, count in 2s, in 5s, in 10s, and he can do simple additions. He asks about 15 times a day 'what's 2+2? What's 4+4'? What comes before 15? etc.

If we play with dice he will throw two dice and look at the dots, and without actually counting the dots one-by-one he will shout 'ELEVEN' etc.

The other day we saw a big delivery van which had a gigantic '1000' on the side. He asked me 'what's that number' and I said it's one thousand. He started crying - he said no mum, it's 100 + another 0 so it still 100.

Another strange event happened last week he asked his dad 'what's two twos?' so my husband explained to him that it was two times two, so it's four. DS thought for a minute and said 'so ten tens is one hundred?'

The thing also is that he has a severe speech delay and said his first word at 2.5 and first sentences at 3.

I'm not sure what I'm asking for really. We are very puzzled as to what he is thinking, what is going on in his little head, if you know other children who have the same fascination. He is generally a well behaved and very sweet little boy.

Hi BP, your description of your ds sounds very like my ds1 (4:10). He was counting to 100+ before 3, spotted numbers on signs, doors etc all over the place almost as soon as he could talk, last year had special time with the head of his nursery school to do sudokus, counting in 2s, 5s,10s. He got the concepts of addition, subtraction, multiplication very early, eg playing snakes and ladders- "I need a 5 to get to square 18"... also taught himself to read at 3 and is very good with maps and directions.

We do have some concerns about Aspergers and have sought a referral. Like your ds, it is not at all clearcut- he's v sociable and chatty, but does seen to miss implicit social cues, is happy, confident and well-behaved. At the initial assessment, the paediatrician thought that it's borderline at the moment- there are definitely traits but he's not struggling at all at the moment. My concern is that he might start to struggle later in childhood when peer relationships become more important. Anyhow, she's observing him in school next month and will decide whether to take it forward to a full ADOS.

It is tricky, as it seems AS can often go unnoticed in preschool/ early primary, but of course early intervention can make all the difference. Being gifted with numbers doesn't mean AS, but in combination with the social and communication difficulties, I think it might be worth talking to your GP again.

I should perhaps mention I have another son (now 22) who is mathematically gifted and could do the numbers thing BUT it was very obvious that he was very advanced in all areas and had no difficulties with speech and communication or socially and behaviourally. It was very different having a gifted child to having an ASD child with an ability with numbers.

I know that this is very late in the day but I'm fairly new to MN and have been trawling for interesting threads. You could have been describing my DS3 almost exactly. He's now 8 but used to say all the street numbers as we passed each house. 10 of his first 20 words were 1 - 10! He loves maths and is an early reader also and just adores the Murderous Maths books (like Horrible Histories). Keeps telling his teachers that the square root of -1 is i! They don't know what he's talking about. He can't write for toffee tho'.

My DS1 had speech delay and couldn't put 2 words together until over 3 and lots of SALT. He was a late reader also, but he excels in Maths now. (Best in year 8!)

Now, my DS2 has high functioning autism. Doesn't excel at anything academically, but is still very precious.

DS3 has not been and won't be diagnosed as he's much too NT, just quirky but I know he's on the spectrum. I'd say it only matters if your DS needs any help or support at school. If not, and he's happy, then just be pleased he's got this gift. If he's unhappy tho', and can't make friends then perhaps he does need to be re-assessed.

To point out the obvious, autism has a definite genetic link so all my DSs may have it to some degree. Your DS is so like my DS3, I had to write. May give you food for thought if nothing else.

My DS loves numbers and was very keen on numbers and sums from a young age; he is 6 now and on the G&T list for maths - and for reading and vocabulary as he is also a very chatty, articulate kid who loves reading and read early. However there has been some concern about his fine motor skills and his writing is not too good (though he can type).
It has been suggested to me once or twice that he may be on the ASD spectrum but frankly I have no time for the medicalisation of kids who are just different. (NO I am not saying that autistic DC are just naughty and have crap parents, I am saying that the definition of kids in need of intervention and treatment is spreading pretty fucking wide).

I'm not disagreeing. While my DS 1 needed SALT, he went on to manage perfectly well enough at school. It was obvious that DS 2 needed and needs a DX, support at school, a statement of special needs, DLA etc. I know from DS2 that DS3 is on the autism spectrum but he doesn't need help. I am aware of his slight dyspraxia and ropy social skills but he is an extremely able boy who wouldn't benefit from the label. DS2 does need that label and the support it has led to. I'm not against labelling if it helps. But currently it wouldn't help DS3. This may change in the future and I think I'm on top of it.

Although some things you say seem to point to some degree of ASD/Aspergers, my little sister was always like this (and still is) and there is nothing remotely ASD about her! I remember trying to learn my times tables when she was 4 and her keep yelling out the answers before I'd even heard the question! Think she bemused nursery staff but repeatly getting them to ask her her 13 times table....! She is and always has been the most gobby, confident, PITA I have ever known...!